Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater, shall we? The presence of a document on the site that contains something other than Catholic Teaching does not make the whole forum a “heresy”. There are many heretical ideas cited in volumes of documents here. One of the main ministries of the site is to teach Catholics to distinguish.
LOL!Oh, be careful what you are saying there. “Chat him or her up” has a totally different meaning here and maybe in Ireland. It means to flirt with a member of the opposite sex - or maybe not these days- with a mind to, well, you know…
Where did they “correct” Jesus. The only mention of Jesus’ brothers speaking to him directly is in John’s Gospel and it is to ask him if he is going to show himself at the festival, and Jesus responds that his time has not yet come. That is hardly correction.
I want to take this moment as it seems that my posts have caused a great deal of consternation to say this. I do adhere to the church’s doctrines on the Blessed Mother and I find it fascinating what the early church fathers wrote about her that even they were not always certain until the church ruled on things. So if I was to take Origen and just quote only him for example, you would think I had pretty messed up Marian theology, but yet at his time that was the theology. For me personally, I want to know all sides of the argument from both sides, I want to know today’s thoughts on theology so that I can better defend Catholic teachings. I do hope everyone on this thread will come to see this and not took at me as preaching heresy for giving all points of view.im probably going to get in trouble here…but… oh well… some of the comments directed toward Father John, and Father Padrej, have seemed a little disrepectful and harsh. i get where Father John was coming from in trying to explain Mariology in a way protestants would better understand. we probably need to take a deep breath, and apologize to these two wonderful Priest who are on this thread. i wouldnt speak to my earthly father in this tone reguardless if i disagree with him or not. and i for one, would really feel like i was on shakey ground if i talked to one who has been ordained in a disrespectful manner. if i have made comments to either of you two wonderful Priest, that would seem disrespectful, i apologize in advance. and i would encourage others to look inside themselves and see if they need to do the same. i have been guilty of this before, and it doesnt hurt to back up once in while, and do a self check. love and peace to all of us here.
Interesting. A former pastor of mine, who is affiliated with the “convergent” movement and has documentation of apostolic succession through the Anglican line, also has, on occasion, been asked by the RCC diocesan bishop to serve communion to Catholics when a priest is unavailable to do so. I was stunned when he told me, as I didn’t think a non-Catholic could administer communion to Catholics.
This is very important to this discussion. Mary’s soul magnifies the Lord, her spirit rejoices in God her savior. As the first Christian Mary gives her confession of faith in her Magnificat so beautifully written in Luke 1. Nowhere in scripture does Mary repent of her “sins”. She was sinless. According to Holy Scripture she was full of grace before the Incarnation. Mary is the example of what all the elect someday will be. All who go to heaven will be conformed to Christ. All will have attributes of the Holy Spirit. As St. Paul says, it is no longer I but Christ who lives in me. Mary is the mother of all true Christians. The Blessed Mother is our mother. She gave us Christ. She leads us to Christ. Her soul magnifies the Lord. As, Jesus says, “Behold your mother.” This is reason enough to love her. Who else’s soul “magnifies the Lord”? Who else is the “mother of my Lord”? Her humility and faith are examples for us to follow. Jesus says blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it. This is what Mary did always without fail. She never repented of sins because she always listened to God and kept his word.
If so, then I apologize. It was not my intention to throw any barbs.
Yes, but I was not attacking him. I did not like what he said, and I stated that it did not appear to communicate the Catholic faith.
Definitely.
Indeed.
I do not shrink from confronting those who claim to be Catholic and do not proclaim the Catholic faith. I have never found it necessary to do this with a bishop (I am blessed with very faithful shepherds here in my area) but I would not hesitate to darken their door.
As I said, I have no way of knowing if he is actually a member of the clergy. For all I know, he is role playing.
I was not in a position to confront him myself. I must confess, I was confused and distressed by his actions.
I can certainly own that myself.
Yes, I am here to learn. I have learned a great deal about my faith since I came here.
*Ha! Ha! I have been away from the thread for 24 hours and came back to catch up and have been looking forward to the response to a question posted earlier about when did anti-Marian beliefs begin to occur. I had expected Protestants to respond to that question which is extremely interesting and important.So what’s happening here…a Catholic poster has stated that his priest is into “New Age”…some other Catholic posters are arguing with a priest that some of his opinions do not line up with what the CC proclaims…other posters site poor catechizing as the reason that there may be some “Mary Worshippers” floating around out there…
And yet Protestants are told that they have ‘confusion’ and ‘chaos’ because of all their denominations…
**We live in times when communication is swift and information easily accessible. No longer can the Doctor give us a couple of pills and an injection and send us on our way. We want to KNOW what is wrong. We need to UNDERSTAND our bodies. We read up on the Internet and question. That is healthy. The same as with the Church. Noone can pull the wool over our eyes. We will argue even with a Bishop if necessary if he does not agree with the Magisterium. That is good and healthy.Leeann, please don’t think that the entire Catholic Church is like this. It’s a shame IMHO. I will speak from my own experience.
It’s ironic that in a country with an established church (Church of England) and where we are still persecuted for our faith, we are very orthodox and obedient to the Magesterium. The Archbishop of Westminster, who is the head of the Church in England and Wales and the bishops under his authority, would not tolerate this diversity. Some years ago something happened in one of the parishes of our diocese; a particular “movement” within the Church tried to take over. Regular parishioners were being excluded from the normal workings of the parish. There was a thorough investigation and the Bishop, very quickly, nipped it in the bud, so to speak. The parish priest was moved and an orthodox one came in his place. This is now a thriving, multi- cultural parish which has a wonderful name. This is not a small diocese by the way.
We have enough problems with the media, who love to take swipes at us and the atheists, for example Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, who are religiously opposed to us. They are planning to disrupt the Pope’s visit here in September. Did you know that, in law, a member of the Royal Family cannot marry a Catholic and remain in line to the throne nor can a Catholic become King or Queen. Not that I want the throne, it’s just the principle. I just feel sorry for American Catholics who feel so upset about what happens in their parishes that they will shop around until they find one they feel happy in and with a pastor who is a true shepherd to his flock… I was going to say safe.
This is nothing to do with American people, just the Church in America. I lived in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for 6 years and during that time I lapsed because I didn’t feel that I was being spiritually fed. I was a lot younger then and less patient.
I remember getting up early one Sunday morning and going to a 7 O’clock Mass in my own parish because I thought it would be quiet. No, even at that time of the morning there were guitars and drums. I’m ashamed of myself but I couldn’t stand it. I just wanted to hear Holy Mass. Loud music is OK for the main Mass but 7am?I did attend a Mass in a Mexican neighbourhood once and although it was all in Spanish and did have music, I felt that I had attended Mass. I didn’t see any old ladies saying the Rosary just a bunch of fellow Catholics at Mass. I made the responses and said the prayers in English. But it was so far away from my home that I couldn’t go back.
The Church is Clergy and the people. I think it’s time to take the Church back from the renegades and restore her. As Jesus said to St Francis of Assisi, “Rebuild my Church which is crumbling”. It’s up to the people to say, “No, this is wrong. No more cafeteria Catholicism from anyone.”
There is hope, I hope. I saw this on Youtube:
youtube.com/watch?v=B_btEwapXMA&playnext_from=TL&videos=PudPGUKtnwg&feature=sub
*I have seen peasants in Europe going a little overboard but I understand they are not well educated and may overdo things.Could you explain what attributes of the Holy Spirit that you see people transferring onto Mary? Maybe if you could give an example we could better respond to the issue that you have where you believe that SOME CASES border on worship.
**In the Church, with well over a billion adherents, Jesus foresaw the need for a hierarchy - the Pope and the Magisterium - to teach and oversee the faithful. It is a huge responsibility, hence the need for the Holy Spirit to guide the Church into all truth. However, don’t forget the Church is human (us) and divine (the H Spirit) and we have to be brought in check when we go off the rails.
*Perhaps Protestants do not know that while we have Fatima, Lourdes and other approved apparitions, the Catholic Church is extremely cautious (sometimes it would seem unfairly so) in this regard as there are false “apparitions”. The Church has to verify such apparitions and sometimes it may take decades - one has to see what fruits such apparitions bear.
*Not just with apparitions, but with the cannonization of Saints as well. They wait about 100 years before they render any decisions so that everyone has a chance to come forward and say whether or not this person really WAS worthy of sainthood in there life, and so that once a decision is made to canonize someone nobody can come out and say they aren’t deserving.*Perhaps Protestants do not know that while we have Fatima, Lourdes and other approved apparitions, the Catholic Church is extremely cautious (sometimes it would seem unfairly so) in this regard as there are false “apparitions”. The Church has to verify such apparitions and sometimes it may take decades - one has to see what fruits such apparitions bear.
I think that is the right thing to do.
Blessings
Cinette
*Weeeelll! I wouldn’t say 100 years although this has happened. What about Padre Pio, Mother Teresa, Therese of Lisieux and others. No I think it depends also on miracles and the weight of evidence.
*100 years is the standard norm, for the reasons I have mentioned as well as because of the miracles. Sometimes there is significant evidence to allow for canonization earlier.*Weeeelll! I wouldn’t say 100 years although this has happened. What about Padre Pio, Mother Teresa, Therese of Lisieux and others. No I think it depends also on miracles and the weight of evidence.
Blessings
Cinette
Hi Cinette -*Ha! Ha! I have been away from the thread for 24 hours and came back to catch up and have been looking forward to the response to a question posted earlier about when did anti-Marian beliefs begin to occur. I had expected Protestants to respond to that question which is extremely interesting and important.
Your post is certainly interesting and in today’s world yes I understand that all kind of new age ideas, relativism etc can pervade the hearts of minds of the faithful including the clergy. It is a shame but true.
You then compare this to the “confusion” and “chaos” ** in the denominations. If you think carefully you will see that there is a huge difference. Those who do not agree with Fr John are not going out to plant another Church. You must also remember that today the laity is well informed and bold to speak up and say “Hey Father - that is not the Church’s teaching!” There is a huge difference! Now I am going to go back and check the response of others.
You must agree that this makes for interesting interaction!
Blessings to all
Cinette