Why is it wrong to love Mary?

[2ndGen]

Hello Singinbeauty,

You wrote:

Funny, you missed the first part of my post where I wrote;

**
See for yourself,

Here is a link to a Catholic (NAB) bible showing the book of Esther.

Here is a link to a Protestant (KJV) bible showing the book of Esther.

If you will notice, six chapters are missing from the Protestant (KJV) Bible, book of Esther. That doesn’t mean that your Bible doesn’t have the entire book today, depending on which Protestant Bible you are using, the six missing chapters, might actually be in your Bible.

It is “funny” how the Protestant Bible seems to be getting more and more, “Catholic” every year, gee, I wonder if that is because there exist more linguists and more Bible scholars today and it is getting harder to produce a truly “Protestant” Bible. It might also be the fact that the Catholic Church got it right a long time ago.

BTW, what did think about Daniel 13 and Daniel 14?

Please try again, Thank you.

I always wondered about that…how The Deuterocanonicals Books were “not” The Inspired Word of God, so they deleted them from their books, but then, they put them back “in” their bible…isn’t that “adding” words that are “not” The Inspired Word of God “to” The Word of God?



And which time were they wrong?

When they took them out?

Or when they put them back in?

 

[2ndGen]

Yeah, its really kinda sad that they do lack appreciation of Mary. Was it really that hard to accept that she’s special and deserves our respect and love? I know that most of them are really very knowlegeable about the Bible. But I think its more than enough proof that Mary really is special because God chose her, a humble young girl, to be the mother of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. And its really sad to know that most Protestants just take this fact for granted. And it pains me to think that this is one of the reasons that separates us to them.

I used to believe them when they said that they thought Mary was special but that she didn’t deserve any special attention…that is, until I saw how high they praised Esther.

I think their praising of Esther is their hunger for The Blessed Mother (like when Paul went into a pagan temple and told them that the “unkown god” that they were longing to worship was God.

Maybe all that love they feel for Esther (which is fine by me) is their hunger for Mary channeled to any other female biblical figure so long as it’s not those Catholic’s champion…Mary.

Of course, I’m not talking about all Protestants, just those that fit the description.

 

[cradlecathlic26]

That makes alot of sense, my MIL, who is baptist, told me a couple times to read the book of Esther. Her first baptist church even held a class to discuss it. Wierd.

 

[guanophore]

I find the Bible is rather silent on Mary, so I don’t think anyone will find any passage that explicitly says, “thou shall not love Mary”

for me personally, my lack of love for Mary is a result of my experience with her in my devotional life and spirituality. I won’t elaborate beyond that because I may offend some people here and that is not my intent.

My reason for not loving her came through experience

This is a very curious statement. It think it would be worth the risk of offense to tell!

 

[guanophore]

Please do not be confused by what others say…The Blessed Mother needs you to pray to her. Her Son demands this.

I think this is a misrepresentation. I don’t think the Blessed mother needs anything from us, any more than any of the inhabitants of the heavenly kingdom do. They are in bliss where they are.

I don’t think that Jesus “demands” this either.

 

[guanophore]

and another problem is : what was the role of an “episcop” ( bishop ) as described in the epistles ? it seems quite close to the role of the “elders”, people who “conducted” a local church, not what it later became in the Anglican and Catholic churches …

What makes you think not? Frankly, it is hard to imagine that the disciples could envision what the Church would look like even in a few centuries. We are looking at the mustard seed, and saying “well, the full grown tree looks nothing like it!” Is that not what Jesus said would happen? The role and responsiblity of the episkopos has not changed.

and the photo you joined to the post … I don’t think you had all this in New Testament times : where is it written that elders/ bishops should wear “specific” clothes ??? be in rich palaces and so on ???

You make it sound as if this segment of believers are the only ones! Where is it written in the NT that Mother Teresa should go to India and care for Hindus?

On the other hand, I see that it is clearly written there that people should not be judged by what type of clothing they wear, or what kind of a house they live in.

that rather drives me away from the Catholic church … ( same reaction for the Anglican church --“High church”-- )

If you are driven away from the Body of Christ by your own judgemental/criticism of the followers, then you are not worthy to be called a member of that Body.

James 2:3-5
4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

James 4:12
But who are you that you judge your neighbor?

 

[2ndGen]

That makes alot of sense, my MIL, who is baptist, told me a couple times to read the book of Esther. Her first baptist church even held a class to discuss it. Wierd.

And no class on Mary?

It’s ok…where once you weren’t “allowed” to love her,
now your among brethren that do love her and now,
you are “just like” her Son that loved her too!

:grouphug:

 

[guanophore]

Paul in Ephesians 1:1 calls them saints. Am i to believe that they loved perfectly and without sin?

Your eagerness to bash the Catholic Teaching is once again tempting you to derail this thread, ja4, by changing the subject once again. If you wish to discuss the difference between those called to be holy, and those already made holy that are in heaven, you should open another thread. It is off topic here.

Righteousone;3265429]
Paul is clear that he is referring the saints there as saints and not saying they “could be” but actually are saints.

Not all those who have been set apart (hagios) fulfill their calling unto holiness. Not every vessel initially purified remains pure until the end. However, Mary did so, consecrating her life to God, and continually saying “be it done to me according to Thy will” up until the present day.

 

[2ndGen]

Your eagerness to bash the Catholic Teaching is once again tempting you to derail this thread, ja4, by changing the subject once again. If you wish to discuss the difference between those called to be holy, and those already made holy that are in heaven, you should open another thread. It is off topic here.

 

[guanophore]

This kind of scholarship can’t be dismissed easily or quickly. Catholics need to deal with this.

Here you go again, ja4, telling Catholics what they “need” to do with regard to their belief and faith. Do you see how this appears to be your effort to press Catholics into your way of believing? You have no authority to tell Catholics what they “need” or “should” do. When you use this kind of language, it appears that you are proselytizing.

 

[guanophore]

If you follow the road built by Rome, I would recommend that you check if the road is solid of its foundations or if it is leading you to destruction. Search other sources that will either confirm or refute the church teaching. I pray that you open the eyes that God gave you to read and understand His written words for it is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

Catholics don’t follow a “road built by Rome”. For Catholics, Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He is the narrow gate by which we enter. Catholics have always held and taught that Scripture in inspired by God, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. We just don’t believe that any of these activities should be separated from the Sacred Tradition from which Scripture was taken.

 

[Huguenot]

What makes you think not? Frankly, it is hard to imagine that the disciples could envision what the Church would look like even in a few centuries. We are looking at the mustard seed, and saying “well, the full grown tree looks nothing like it!” Is that not what Jesus said would happen? The role and responsiblity of the episkopos has not changed.

You make it sound as if this segment of believers are the only ones! Where is it written in the NT that Mother Teresa should go to India and care for Hindus?

On the other hand, I see that it is clearly written there that people should not be judged by what type of clothing they wear, or what kind of a house they live in.

If you are driven away from the Body of Christ by your own judgemental/criticism of the followers, then you are not worthy to be called a member of that Body.

James 2:3-5
4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

James 4:12
But who are you that you judge your neighbor?

“you are not worthy to be called a member of that Body”… sorry, this ending is so aggressive I don’t feel like going on talking with you … because if I have understood well it means that if somebody doesn’t agree with all the teachings of the Catholic Church he can’t be a Christian …I can’t accept this for various reasons, some being very personal ( the fact that my become a Christian caused me a lot of problems in my family since I am not of Christian background ; by become a Protestant I feel nearer to Catholics or Orthodox believers than to any member of my family, which makes it very hard for me to feel rejected thus, it causes a lot of suffering and I am not a masochist sorry for saying very personal things but that’s how it is …
I am not rejected by my Catholic compatriots–I’m French-- , if American Catholics reject me it’s their problem not mine …
I have enough problems in my family without creating myself problems with other believers on a forum , so I’ll stop …
Even if, by better understanding the Catholics, some Protestants feel nearer to them now than they were before ( which is my case ), it seems that for some Catholics they never “do enough” unless they convert to Catholicism …
bye !

 

[Huguenot]

That reminds me of something. The Evangelical Protestant community of Churches produced a movie called “One Night With The King” based on the Biblical story of Esther.

They were praising her loyalty, her Godliness, her virtue, they were espousing how much of a great example she was and I was really into their talking so beautifully about this “woman”. This went on for months as they promoted the movie they produced.

Then…it hit me.

There was a Natitivity Scene on the stage.

Who was there?

Mary.

Why couldn’t they talk about Mary as they talked about Esther?

Why was Mary off limits to praise, but Esther not?

It saddened me. I was in no way jealous of Esther and she deserves her praise and honor.

But what about Jesus’ mother was only dragged out into the converstion for Christmas and Easter, then put away again after that, never to be heard from again unless they were stomping on a Catholic for daring to speak of her as they spoke of Esther?

Don’t worry Mommy…I still love you and I will place no woman on earth above you.

Well in my church we’ve had several predications on Mary, on Esther as well, on other people mentioned in the Bible, not only women, men too !!!
fancy that, being “sexists” the other way round !

 

[guanophore]

As for Mary she is in the glory of God, she doesn’t appear anywhere …

How does being in the glory of God prevent people from appearing anywhere? How did the saints appear after the crucifixion of Jesus? How did Moses and Elijah appear to Jesus? How did Samuel appear to Saul?

I think you have drawn an erroneous conclusion here.

I’m a Protestant Christian and … French ( hence my “name” on this forum : French Protestants ( more precisely Reformed Protestants ) were called “huguenots” … but I’m Evangelical …
Thank you for telling me the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that we HAVE TO go to Jesus THROUGH Mary or another saint … so even if I am a Protestant, by not doing so I don’t do anything contrary to the teachings of the Catholic church, I’m not as heretical as I thought then

No, a heretic is one who embraced the truth, then knowingly rejected it for false doctrine. You don’t qualify for this category, since you are clearly ignorant of the Teachings of the Apostles.

 

[lilia_psalm23]

“you are not worthy to be called a member of that Body”… sorry, this ending is so aggressive I don’t feel like going on talking with you … because if I have understood well it means that if somebody doesn’t agree with all the teachings of the Catholic Church he can’t be a Christian …I can’t accept this for various reasons, some being very personal ( the fact that my become a Christian caused me a lot of problems in my family since I am not of Christian background ; by become a Protestant I feel nearer to Catholics or Orthodox believers than to any member of my family, which makes it very hard for me to feel rejected thus, it causes a lot of suffering and I am not a masochist sorry for saying very personal things but that’s how it is …
I am not rejected by my Catholic compatriots–I’m French-- , if American Catholics reject me it’s their problem not mine …
I have enough problems in my family without creating myself problems with other believers on a forum , so I’ll stop …
Even if, by better understanding the Catholics, some Protestants feel nearer to them now than they were before ( which is my case ), it seems that for some Catholics they never “do enough” unless they convert to Catholicism …
bye !

Hello there…wow it must be really tough having a different religion from your other family members…in some way i can relate to you (but i know its a different case)…

way back, i joined a Bible study group with my protestant friends after work and i know you call it a cell group right? i really am amazed at how they were so knowledgeable about the scriptures…it makes me feel like i want to be like that…it even reached to the point that they’re inviting me to be to baptized in and i’m asking myself if i really wanted to convert to Protestantism…but you know what? it became a problem specially when my mother learned about it…she’s a conservative Catholic and she really discouraged us (my other siblings) to have a different religion, since this may be, in some way, cause some misunderstandings due to different beliefs…i really am very confused at those times…its like my mother stopped speaking to me and it really hurts and is very hard going home having this huge and heavy feeling in my heart…

i prayed sincerely about it and have done a Bible cutting so that i may be guided on what to do…but you know what really amazed me? i got my answer right away…no questions asked because the answer is very very obvious…

the words revealed to me were those written in Matthew 15:1-9 - Jesus answered, “And why do you disobey God’s command and follow your own teaching? For God said, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘If you curse your father or mother, you are to be put to death.’ But you teach that if people have something they could use to help their father or mother, but say, ‘This belongs to God, they do not need to honor their father. In this way you disregard God’s command, in order to follow your own teaching. You hypocrites! How right Isaiah was when he prophesied about you!
These people, says God, honor me with their words, but their heart is really far away from me.
It is no use for them to worship me, because they teach human rules as though they were my laws!’”.

even my mother was really surprised about this and was very happy about it…am still okay with my Protestants friends and i told them that i already had my answer and they respected my decision…no need to change religion because i’m really very happy and proud being a Caholic…

just really wanted to share my experience to you…asked God’s help so that you may also bring your family close to HIM…

 

[2ndGen]

Well in my church we’ve had several predications on Mary, on Esther as well, on other people mentioned in the Bible, not only women, men too !!!
fancy that, being “sexists” the other way round !

Yeah…I always found it wierd the way some anti-Catholics claim that The Church is sexists because the Heirchy represents The Apostles, yet completely ignore our love and veneration of Mary.

I could never expect a non-Catholic Church to love Mary as much as we do.

We do because we were introduced to her as part of the complete story of Jesus (Him, those around Him, His earthly Father, His cousin John, His grandmother Ann, etc…). We just go into so much depth regarding His life while others stop at Jesus…which is fine by me too.

Catholic don’t wonder why non-Catholics “don’t” want to know more about those that loved Jesus and those He grew up with…we just don’t understand why it’s considered wrong by an unignorable number of Chrsitian groups.

I’m sure Jesus would love for us to love those He loved
more than for us to merely recognize them.

 

[justasking4]

Here you go again, ja4, telling Catholics what they “need” to do with regard to their belief and faith. Do you see how this appears to be your effort to press Catholics into your way of believing? You have no authority to tell Catholics what they “need” or “should” do. When you use this kind of language, it appears that you are proselytizing.

i notice at times you tell others what to believe also. Who appointed you to do this? Who gives you this authority?

 

[Jimmy_B]

Well in my church we’ve had several predications on Mary, on Esther as well, on other people mentioned in the Bible, not only women, men too !!!
fancy that, being “sexists” the other way round !

Hello, Huguenot,
Your comment is kind of confusing to me. I don’t know if your comment was meant for the Catholic faith as being “sexist” but here are some general observations.

Note: If your comment (above) was meant for the Catholic faith, in a negative way, comments like these are common and they are false and another Protestant myth regarding Catholicism.

·None of Jesus’ Apostles were women.

· Roman Catholics love, respect and venerate Mary, a women.

·The Catholic Church has Nuns; all women. I cannot become a Nun.

·Many Catholic Lecterns, teachers, ushers, Eucharistic Ministers and choir singers are women.

·The Catholic Church allows men who were already married, prior to becoming Priest, to stay married. We actually have married Priests.

·The Catholic Church allows and encourages married men to become Deacons .

·If one attends a Catholic Mass every Sunday, they will have nearly the entire Bible read to them in three years. Additionally, they (Catholics) will hear a Catholic Priest give a Homily (Sermon) on what has been read to them, in context. Obviously some of these verses involve women in the Bible, including Mary.

·The Bible Books, 1st and 2nd Maccabees, were removed from the “Catholic” Bible, removed by “Protestants”. These books include stories about heroic women and the story of Hanukkah.

·Chapters 13 and 14 of Daniel, have been removed from the “Protestant” (KJV) Bible, it is a story about “Susanna’s Virtue”, a woman.

·The Catholic Church has named many women as Saints and passed down their stories to us in the “Live of the Saints”.

·Many of the “Doctors” of the Catholic Church are women

· Many books were removed from the “Catholic” Bible, removed by “Protestants”. This would include books, like “Esther” and “Judith” which are named after and about a women.

Should I continue, or should I stop? The Catholic Faith has a great love and respect for women. There is much written about “respecting” women in the Catechism.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church might revere woman more than many other “Protestant” religions. This includes many woman that the “Bible-alone” crowd and other non-Catholic Christian’s are not aware of, or avoid learning about because it might be “Catholic”. The Catholic Church’s position on “Marriage” and “Life” shows a respect for women.

Please correct me if I am wrong and please clarify your comments.

 

[peary]

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church might revere woman more than many other “Protestant” religions. This includes many woman that the “Bible-alone” crowd and other non-Catholic Christian’s are not aware of, or avoid learning about because it might be “Catholic”.

Please correct me if I am wrong and please clarify your comments.

Catholic women have always been in the forefront of the women’s rights movement, for better or worse. Not only that, women Catholic saints have also supported their own sisters down through the centuries.

 

[Namesake]

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church might revere woman more than many other “Protestant” religions. This includes many woman that the “Bible-alone” crowd and other non-Catholic Christian’s are not aware of, or avoid learning about because it might be “Catholic”. The Catholic Church’s position on “Marriage” and “Life” shows a respect for women.

Please correct me if I am wrong and please clarify your comments.

I think your comments are elitist. I don’t understand why you must be the best at Christianity. Is it a contest?