Why is it wrong to love Mary?

[2ndGen]

How’d you like my Rev 12 breakdown as scriptural proof that the woman in Rev 12 “is” Mary?

 

[2ndGen]

Do you know the context for this passage?

Yes. Jesus was letting The Apostles know that they represented Him and that they spoke in His name. Therefore, whoever rejected what they taught, rejected Him and God.

 

[2ndGen]

You do realize that there is not one verse of Scripture that comes even close to teaching this kind of thing?
Not one writer of the NT ever makes this claim about her.

Not one writer of the NT ever made claims of The Trinity either, or The Rapture.

By the way, we all know what Jesus said about depending on scholars for spiritual guidance don’t we?

Tell me what met all these refernces:

-fled for 3 1/2 years to protect Jesus upon their persecution

-gave birth to Jesus Christ (Jeruselum couldn’t for she is barren and wouldn’t produce until the end times)

-was wrapped in The Light (who is Jesus)

-suffered so much in pain (which woman could suffer more in pain from childbirth than she who has never been touched by a man? Who’s never had any kind of physical relations? Imagine pushing a fully developed infant through a passage that was never touched?)

-brought forth the King of Kings (Jesus) who would rule all nations (not just the Jewish nation) with an iron rod

-who else was given to a man [John] (earth) to be protected once the man child (Jesus) was taken into heaven

-who else was persecuted by Satan for bringing forth Jesus Christ (not Jeruselum…Jeruselum were the ones doing the persecuting of Christians and Jeruselum crucified Christ…to think that Jeruselum was the one to be The Woman is to say that Jesus’ Mother crucified Him)

-who’s children were persecuted because of their allegiance to her Son? Christians, not Jews.

No evidence?

Ok.

You should say that the evidence doesn’t convince “you”.

Oh yeah…all those events that happened in Jesus’ life,
are mentioned in Revelation 12…the who chapter.

 

[jkarp]

you are right about the sarcasm and I was really just being resentful of this post:

but I wasn’t talking only about the OP. look through the thread and you will see posts with “a protestant would say…” and “protestants do…”. I suppose the thread made a good atmosphere for generalization, when I have never seen anyone ever even say it is wrong to love Mary. Also, there really is very little response from protestants.

That’s all

I understand exactly what you are saying and in all fairness you do have a valid point, I really don’t wish to minimize that

However,

I suppose the thread made a good atmosphere for generalization, when I have never seen anyone ever even say it is wrong to love Mary

Isn’t this statement, in and of itself, a generalization based upon your personal experiences? Based upon your experiences with our brethren in Christ, I can see exactly from where your point derives. At the same time, based upon experiences that many of us have had, are you able to see the place from where we are coming?

Pax Christi.

 

[fbl9]

hi from my own personal expeirence there seems to be a trend in mordern popular christainty to refer to Mary as anything from comon to the harlot of babalon. who would even consider to say something like that to our Lord Himself. our own mothers are dear to us, one could be expected to get upset, if such things were said of our own mothers.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Where in scripture is the apostle John said to be the representative of the entire church?

Jesus didn’t say much on the cross, except…
i) pray for the forgiveness of those who attacked him
ii) tell the thiefs next to him that they would be saved
and iii) ask for His mother to be looked after

I would think they are all messages for us.

 

[guanophore]

Do you know the context for this passage?

Authority, authority, authority!

This is where you must be careful in equating the church itself with Jesus as being the church. If you do all kinds of problems will result.

Really? like what?

Does it trouble you deeply that Jesus identified HImself with the Church?

It amazes me that you have the cheek to come to a Catholic site and instruct Catholics in what they “must” do, and not do.

 

[guanophore]

How’d you like my Rev 12 breakdown as scriptural proof that the woman in Rev 12 “is” Mary?

He has had it over and over again. He is just trolling, for the purpose of pulling Catholics away from their faith.

 

[brycelaliberte]

Probably a year ago I would’ve said (as a Protestant then) “Don’t forget Jesus!”

My main objection was simply that I would come across occasional writings that would go on and on about Mary, and never a single mention of Jesus. It would be like talking about why you love Coca-Cola so much, but then the person would only talk about the can it came in. Poor analogy, I’ll give that.

Actually, I still would say to not forget Jesus. But I’m sure you haven’t, of course.

 

[guanophore]

Where in scripture is the apostle John said to be the representative of the entire church?

You do not have to adopt Mary as your Mother, JA4. You will have plenty of company in others who refused the gifts of Jesus.

Luke 7:30
30 but the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves"

 

[Jimmy_B]

What do you mean when say–“It doesn’t bother me one bit that there are those who love my biological Mother, I am happy for her when this happens.”?
Are you saying Mary is your “biological Mother”?

Hello, justakink4

**No, when I wrote “biological mother”, it is was because I was referring to my “biological” mother. **

Mary the Mother of Jesus can’t obviously be my biological mother. This is an odd question, why would you assume such thing?

---

Thanks for your post.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Well, so much for the theory that there are not “Protestants" who do not love Mary or even dislike Mary…

 

[guanophore]

Hello, justakink4

**No, when I wrote “biological mother”, it is was because I was referring to my “biological” mother. **

Mary the Mother of Jesus can’t obviously be my biological mother. This is an odd question, why would you assume such thing?

---

Thanks for your post.

I think he has mother issues, and that is why he is so “anti Marian doctrines”. He champions this cause every opportuntity that presents. What else could cause such an axe to grind?

 

[2ndGen]

I was really hoping that he would’ve responded to my “proofs” of Mary being The Woman in Revelation 12.

But he just came and went and didn’t respond to them.

 

[Lev23]

-who’s children were persecuted because of their allegiance to her Son? Christians, not Jews.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the first Christians were all Jews. The remnant of Israel. The same remnant that took the Gospel of Christ to the Gentiles in due time. By the way you state things, you come across by saying Israel utterly failed.

 

[Lev23]

I was really hoping that he would’ve responded to my “proofs” of Mary being The Woman in Revelation 12.

But he just came and went and didn’t respond to them.

There are OT scriptures that speak of Zion, or Israel in labor in the end times.

Check out Micah 5 and Isaiah 66 for starters.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Some just don’t get it. Some might ask a stranger they just met on a bus to “pray for them” about some problem but asking Mary, the Mother of us all to pray for them doesn’t make sense to some.
It is, IMO, a cultural thing brought on by an aversion to all things Catholic (Christian). It’s seems to be knee jerk as it sure isn’t scriptural and it darn sure isn’t Tradition.

Thank you pismopal,

I, myself have used your analogy, or one very similar. I agree with you, but there are some here that might argue that Mary is no longer living, so this would fall under, “praying to dead people” (at least that is what I’ve heard). That is why I didn’t use it. That would be another topic in and of itself.

We as Catholics who defend our faith, will explain something, apparently to the satisfaction of our “Protestant” friends and without skipping a beat, you will hear, “well, what about this”, almost as if they are programmed and that there exists an actual ‘stumbling-block” preventing them from hearing the truth, or at least listening.

They (many of our Protestant friends) will often ask the question and then dismiss the answer out-of-hand, and move on the next question. This is why, when I post something here I try not to open the door to many questions at one time. When I do, the answer gets lost in the noise, which is their, thinking about the next question and asking the next question.

I often wonder who’s words is it that they are so often repeating? Luther and Calvin caused a lot of harm to Christ’s church. They introduced an ideological “self-importance” or ego into Christianity, by their allowing the personal interpretation of the Bible, which is actually forbidden in the Bible (and for good reason), but that fact doesn’t appear to bother them.

God Bless,

Jimmy

 

[2ndGen]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the first Christians were all Jews. The remnant of Israel.

The were Jews by ethnicity, not by religion anymore.

And by 70 AD, the majority of Christians had shifted to Gentiles.

So for you, Rev 12 only applies to the years between 30 AD and 70 AD?



And what about The Pharisees today?

The Hasidim?

Their still here and they still reject Christ as The Messiah as do 14 Million other Jews.

 

[2ndGen]

There are OT scriptures that speak of Zion, or Israel in labor in the end times.

Check out Micah 5 and Isaiah 66 for starters.

For what?

You couldn’t even disprove the proofs “within” Revelation 12.

According to you, she (Israel) who gave birth to Jesus persecuted His followers, right?

Who rejecte Jesus?

Israel, right?

Not The Christians.

The Christians remained true to Christ.

It was Israel who rejected Jesus.

Now, we all know who stood by Jesus from before His miraculous birth to His very death and who was there even after His death and it wasn’t Israel!

It was only one woman!

“The” Woman!

Mary!

Mary gave birth to Jesus! :extrahappy:

Israel gave death to Jesus! :crying:

They spat upon Him and cursed Him and participated in His false accusation!

And you’re saying that Israel is the mother of those who are Christians?

Those that testify to Christ?

Jews STILL reject Christ.

But Mary doesn’t!

Mary STILL loves Jesus!

More than you!

More than me!

More than anybody can!

She’s His mother!

:knight2:

 

[jkarp]

The Christians remained true to Christ.
It was Israel who rejected Jesus.

Now, we all know who stood by Jesus from before His miraculous birth to His very death and who was there even after His death and it wasn’t Israel!
It was only one woman!

“The” Woman!
Mary!
Mary gave birth to Jesus!
Israel gave death to Jesus!
They spat upon Him and cursed Him and participated in His false accusation!

And you’re saying that Israel is the mother of those who are Christians?
Those that testify to Christ?
Jews STILL reject Christ.
But Mary doesn’t!
Mary STILL loves Jesus!
More than you!
More than me!
More than anybody can!
She’s His mother!

I think the first quick response that you may receive to this is that Mary was in fact Jewish so Israel did give birth to Jesus.
However, we can also safely say that Mary was a Jew, she was also the first Christian. She was the first one to say “Yes” and accept Him into her heart as her Lord and savior (as well as into her womb; into her life in a very literal way). Mary is also the very first one mentioned in the bible to express faith in His power (ergo the wedding at Cana). With this in mind, I believe that any argument saying that Mary was still Jewish at the time of His birth would be erroneous; she is the model of a perfect Christian.