Why is it wrong to love Mary?

[fbl9]

the OP made a mistake this thread should have been called “why it is right to love Mary”…ja4 if you were to pray for twenty minutes,how many times would you say our Lord’s name?may also ask would the mother of our Lord betray one to Jesus or to satan?one more question,if i may,do you when you pray contemplate on the life of Jesus?

…just in case you missed this one Ja4 i’ll bring it up again.

 

[justasking4]

fbl9;3334146]
Originally Posted by fbl9
the OP made a mistake this thread should have been called “why it is right to love Mary”…ja4 if you were to pray for twenty minutes,how many times would you say our Lord’s name?

Lets say 10 times.

may also ask would the mother of our Lord betray one to Jesus or to satan?

Are you speaking when Mary was alive in the NT?

one more question,if i may,do you when you pray contemplate on the life of Jesus?

Lots of things. One is that i’m in awe of Him. To think that the Creator and Judge of all lived this kind of life for our sakes is beyond comprehension.

…just in case you missed this one Ja4 i’ll bring it up again.

My answers above

 

[fbl9]

thanks for your reply Ja4…i am speaking about Mary alive in heaven.right now we love the things of God in a finite way because we are right now finite beings. how ever when one attains the reward of heaven we are no longer finite beings but eternal beings filled with the same eternal love of God. we will be able to love as perfectly as He does.God loves us so now being one with Him in heaven would we not love the same things and in the same way He does.meaning us here on earth. we know God cares for us so being perfectly one with Him,in heaven,we would care in the same way He does petions to Mary and and the saints are vehicles for our prayers to be driven into heaven.

 

[guanophore]

Are you speaking when Mary was alive in the NT?

Are you implying that, once she had gone home to heaven, she would then betray Christ to His enemies?

 

[Cathy]

Praying to people who have died and expecting them to hear your prayers is a form of comunication. It is not the same as asking a living breathing Christian who is alive in this world to pray for you. You have no way of knowing the person you have prayed to can hear your prayers or is even conscious of your request.

Jesus’ words to the Sadducees in Matthew 22:31-32:
And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.

Then at Jesus’ transfiguration in the sight of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:3:
And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, conversing with Him.

Jesus, created His own mother and chose to come to us through her. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Would He not still come to us through her? Is she not the “woman” of both Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12: the ark of the New Covenant (note that Revelation 11:19 immediately precedes Revelation 12).

Surely Jesus, the Son of David (God) is pleased to have us love and honor his mother much more than King Solomon (the earthly son of David) honored his mother by giving her a throne and listening to the requests of his subjects through her.

 

[microhun2700]

Clearly Jesus would want us to love his mother and hold her in high regards. She is, after all, the Virgin who bore the Son of God. We should love Mary just as Jesus did. She is the Mother of our Saivour.

 

[peary]

*Originally Posted by *justasking4 **
There is no such Marian theology in the NT. No one makes any claim that “Mary receives her spiritual gifts and charism from the Holy Spirit, as we do. It is Christ working in and through her that protects us under the mantle of her motherhood.” You won’t find any statements that come close to this assertion.

But there IS a type of theology called Mariology which is the study of the place of the mother of Jesus in the lives of Christians and in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. It would do you well to pursue that avenue, which has been part of the Church for over a thousand years.

 

[Mimi]

Feb 18:

**You have an incredibly narrow understanding of what it means to be the Body of Christ.

It is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.And if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.
(big snip)**

As far as those in Heaven ‘hearing’ our prayers, if being in heaven were like being in the next room, then your objections would be valid. A mortal, unglorified person in the next room would indeed suffer the restrictions imposed by the way space and time work in our universe. But the saints are not in the next room, and they are not subject to the time/space limitations of this life. This does not imply that the saints in heaven therefore must be omniscient, as God is, for it is only through God’s willing it that they can communicate with others in heaven or with us.

The problem here with you is one of what might be called a primitive or even childish view of heaven. A good introduction to the real implications of the afterlife may be found in Frank Sheed’s book Theology and Sanity, which argues that sanity depends on an accurate appreciation of reality, and that includes an accurate appreciation of what heaven is really like. And once that is known, the place of prayer to the saints follows.

Maybe someday you’ll “get it.”

I just happened upon this thread while searching for something else, and I have not read every post since there are many, but I thought this was a Very Good answer and explanation.

When I think of how using The Bible Alone doctrine came about, it must have been to support a Calvinistic separatism and to woo others away from Catholicism. Also, to keep people from relying on extra-Biblical sources which confirm Catholic beliefs and practices, such as the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

**The Bible only makes complete sense **when read and lived in conjunction with the divine Liturgy (the Mass), and the Mass only makes sense when scripture is read and taken as a WHOLE – not just picking texts here and there to suport any one certain point of view (like Calvinism, for one example, – not that I’m picking on Calivinists).

Scott Hahn’s books, Letter and Spirit and Hail Holy Queen will explain this much better and clearer. They are available at:
saintjoe.com/

If possible, get some of Hahn’s audio talks. He appears regularly on EWTN, too. In fact the Letter and Spirit series just started (with Mike Aquilina). Check www.ewtn.com to see the schedule. It was just on Mon. night.

Just for the record, I was raised Catholic from babyhood, attended Catholic elementary school, and I NEVER got the idea that we were worshipping Mary the same as the Trinitarian God – NEVER.

Jesus is our Brother, and that makes Mary our Mother, too. Isn’t it as simple as that? If we are to honor our father and mother, as the fourth commandment states, then we must NOT ignore her, or just say, “She’s just a creature”.

God bless you, and Mary keep you,
Mimi

 

[Mimi]

CORRECTION ON WEB SITE
for Hahn books, Hail Holy Queen and Letter & Spirit

are available at
letterandspirit.org/

NOT
www.stjoe.com
as in my previous post.

Sorry!!!

Mimi

 

[lukewarm]

I won’t say it’s wrong but it is a bit strange to profess love for a woman who died 2,000 years ago whom you have never met or had any relationship with whatsoever.

Think if someone were to say:

“I love you Helen of Troy” or “I love you Teddy Roosevelt, oh Teddy you were the best”. It is a bit strange to profess love for someone you don’t know.

 

[guanophore]

I won’t say it’s wrong but it is a bit strange to profess love for a woman who died 2,000 years ago whom you have never met or had any relationship with whatsoever.

Think if someone were to say:

“I love you Helen of Troy” or “I love you Teddy Roosevelt, oh Teddy you were the best”. It is a bit strange to profess love for someone you don’t know.

A great testimony to the Living Communion of Saints, and the promise of Christ that those that belong to Him will never die.

You are in error if you think it is not possible to know the Saints who have gone on before us.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… “I love you Helen of Troy” or “I love you Teddy Roosevelt, oh Teddy you were the best”. It is a bit strange to profess love for someone you don’t know.

I hope you’re not suggesting that Helen of Troy is the Queen of Heaven.

 

[jimmy]

An observation.

For Protestants Mary is merely as important as Moses & David. Noted in paper but nothing more.

For Catholics, they make it an effort to love Mary. I know why. Its because catholics think that Mary has some kind of omniscient power that she could hear their every prayers to her. And in return they believe that Mary could keep persuading God to give Catholics a special attention.

We pray to Mary because we believe in the unity of the Church on earth and in heaven. That unity is brought about through love. Our prayers are acts of love. Not only do we pray to Mary but we also pray to the other saints and to the angels in heaven. We also ask those on earth to pray for us which is very similar to prayer.

 

[peary]

*Originally Posted by **AgnosTheist **
An observation.

For Protestants Mary is merely as important as Moses & David. Noted in paper but nothing more.

For Catholics, they make it an effort to love Mary. I know why. Its because catholics think that Mary has some kind of omniscient power that she could hear their every prayers to her. And in return they believe that Mary could keep persuading God to give Catholics a special attention.*

**Agnos should have stopped after the first sentence…“they make an effort to love Mary.” Everything after that shows his bigotry. Catholic Christians know that Mary doesn’t have omniscience - only God does. Mary can hear our prayers because she is an integral part of the Communion of Saints and is alive in Heaven. Prots love to divide the living and dead which is but a reflection of their own divisions in their religious identity. They cause division in the Body of Christ. They believe a pagan concept that once you leave this world, there is nothing you can do for your loved ones left in the world. If that were true, then neither can Christ. **

 

[Jimmy_B]

I won’t say it’s wrong but it is a bit strange to profess love for a woman who died 2,000 years ago whom you have never met or had any relationship with whatsoever.

Think if someone were to say:

“I love you Helen of Troy” or “I love you Teddy Roosevelt, oh Teddy you were the best”. It is a bit strange to profess love for someone you don’t know.

Hello, lukewarm,

Couldn’t an atheist just as well, refer to “Jesus”, and use your own argument against you?

Both arguments would be wrong. It’s ok to love Mary, after all she is the mother of God.

Take Care

 

[Roy5]

A FEW SUMMARY POINTS RE MARY

(1) All Christians I know have a very high regard for Mary. Some Protestants may have overreacted to the adulation and adoration she enjoys among many Catholics. To refer to her as the "Queen and Heaven" and such seems paganish to those who have studied ancient religions. It resembles too closely various cults with their virgin goddesses. Mariology has gone too far - and I find that many well-educated Catholics agree.

 (2) No one has yet ventured a decent answer to the question I asked many postings ago. If Mary is so central to Christian worship, why did St. Paul write all those letters to the early churches, with all manner of theological instruction, and never once mention Mary? That strikes me as a strong argument against putting Mary too front and center.

  (3) The references to Mary in the gospels - between the nativity and the crucifixion - seem to me to actually demote Mary. Read them again with an open mind - John 2:4 and Matt. 12:46ff,  (repeated in Mark 3:31ff, Luke 8:19ff). 

  (4) Let me be frank at this point. I'm a thinking Christian who has doubts about some details of the nativity story - the angels, the star, yes, even the virgin birth, etc. We don't have to be literalists about scripture to work at becoming faithful followers of Christ and his message. I prize the freedom to be a student of scripture and not simply a closed-minded believer. I disagree with Thomas Aquinas, for example, who said that heretics were worse than murderers and should be delivered up to the civil authorities to be executed! Not my style of Christianity - and I hope not yours.

 

[guanophore]

A FEW SUMMARY POINTS RE MARY

No one has yet ventured a decent answer to the question I asked many postings ago. If Mary is so central to Christian worship, why did St. Paul write all those letters to the early churches, with all manner of theological instruction, and never once mention Mary? That strikes me as a strong argument against putting Mary too front and center.

That is because you asked the wrong question. Mary is not central to Christian worship. The is not in the front, or in the center, Jesus is.

The references to Mary in the gospels - between the nativity and the crucifixion - seem to me to actually demote Mary.

It seems that way to you because you read them with your anit-Catholic glasses on! I know, I used to do it too.

Let me be frank at this point. I’m a thinking Christian who has doubts about some details of the nativity story - the angels, the star, yes, even the virgin birth, etc. We don’t have to be literalists about scripture to work at becoming faithful followers of Christ and his message. I prize the freedom to be a student of scripture and not simply a closed-minded believer. I disagree with Thomas Aquinas, for example, who said that heretics were worse than murderers and should be delivered up to the civil authorities to be executed! Not my style of Christianity - and I hope not yours.

Father Corapi said something similar recently. He pointed out that a murderer could take the body, but not the soul, whereas a heretic could bring death to she soul.

Matt 10:28
8 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[1234]

I hope you’re not suggesting that Helen of Troy is the Queen of Heaven.

Ha!

 

[1234]

Father Corapi said something similar recently. He pointed out that a murderer could take the body, but not the soul, whereas a heretic could bring death to she (sic) soul.

This is a very old idea and justified the murder of ‘heretics’ in previous centuries.

 

[1234]

A FEW SUMMARY POINTS RE MARY

(1) All Christians I know have a very high regard for Mary. Some Protestants may have overreacted to the adulation and adoration she enjoys among many Catholics. To refer to her as the "Queen and Heaven" and such seems paganish to those who have studied ancient religions. It resembles too closely various cults with their virgin goddesses. Mariology has gone too far - and I find that many well-educated Catholics agree.

 (2) No one has yet ventured a decent answer to the question I asked many postings ago. If Mary is so central to Christian worship, why did St. Paul write all those letters to the early churches, with all manner of theological instruction, and never once mention Mary? That strikes me as a strong argument against putting Mary too front and center.

  (3) The references to Mary in the gospels - between the nativity and the crucifixion - seem to me to actually demote Mary. Read them again with an open mind - John 2:4 and Matt. 12:46ff,  (repeated in Mark 3:31ff, Luke 8:19ff). 

  (4) Let me be frank at this point. I'm a thinking Christian who has doubts about some details of the nativity story - the angels, the star, yes, even the virgin birth, etc. We don't have to be literalists about scripture to work at becoming faithful followers of Christ and his message. I prize the freedom to be a student of scripture and not simply a closed-minded believer. I disagree with Thomas Aquinas, for example, who said that heretics were worse than murderers and should be delivered up to the civil authorities to be executed! Not my style of Christianity - and I hope not yours.

Excellent points, Roy.

The early stories of Jesus’ conception and birth are in the latest gospels written, were written by Greeks, who had a rich tradition of gods and man/gods with stories surrounding their birth. These stories would have been in the epistles if they were circulating at the time and were thought to be true. Ditto Mary’s primacy*. It wasn’t there.* NO one can explain this away. Paul and the apostles go on and on about Jesus’ role and nature of salvation, but *not a word *about Mary.