Why is it wrong to love Mary?

[Annie_B]

Why is it wrong to love Mary?

Below (post# 2) is a letter (prayer) I wrote for Mary. All of my comments in this letter are Biblical, if you are not a Catholic and you do not love Mary, please explain why you don’t (love Mary)? Where is it written, in the Bible that you cannot love Mary?

http://davenation.com/madonnas/found/La_Vierge_au_lys.jpg

I just saw this thread. What a beautiful picture! I do have one question; WHO says it is wrong to love Mary?? I do not think it is wrong to love her and I am Mormon

Annie

 

[justasking4]

Annie B;3409684]
Originally Posted by Jimmy B
Why is it wrong to love Mary?

Below (post# 2) is a letter (prayer) I wrote for Mary. All of my comments in this letter are Biblical, if you are not a Catholic and you do not love Mary, please explain why you don’t (love Mary)? Where is it written, in the Bible that you cannot love Mary?

Since you are making the positive claim we are to love Mary here and now where do the Scriptures say we are? Where did Jesus command this? Where do the apostles teach this?

I just saw this thread. What a beautiful picture! I do have one question; WHO says it is wrong to love Mary?? I do not think it is wrong to love her and I am Mormon

Annie

 

[Annie_B]

Since you are making the positive claim we are to love Mary here and now where do the Scriptures say we are? Where did Jesus command this? Where do the apostles teach this?

Again, who says we are NOT to love Mary? Where in the scriptures does it say that?

Annie

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Since you are making the positive claim we are to love Mary here and now where do the Scriptures say we are? Where did Jesus command this? Where do the apostles teach this?

Annie B
Again, who says we are NOT to love Mary? Where in the scriptures does it say that?

Annie

The only love that i’m aware of that we are to have is to love the Lord your God. That command is universal and still in effect for followers of Christ. There is no exhortation or command in Scripture that we are to love those who have died. We are not exhorted or commanded to love Peter, Paul, John, Mary etc.

 

[Annie_B]

The only love that i’m aware of that we are to have is to love the Lord your God. That command is universal and still in effect for followers of Christ. There is no exhortation or command in Scripture that we are to love those who have died. We are not exhorted or commanded to love Peter, Paul, John, Mary etc.

But, I do not believe that it says anywhere that we are NOT to love Mary or anyone else for that matter. I do not know where it says that we are to love only God…I believe that we ARE told to “Love one another that your joy may be full”. Nowhere does it say we stop loving once someone has died. I still love my first husband even though he has died. Do you think that this is wrong? If so, why?

Now, with that said, let me say this: LOVE one another not WORSHIP one another. The op was asking about loving Mary - not worshipping her.

Annie

 

[Roy5]

QUITTING THIS THREAD

 I've decided to quit this thread, as interesting as it is. To begin with, I've said about all I have to say. And then, I really must devote myself to other more pressing matters. Doctrinal discussion gets my attention, but I'm not sure it gets me anywhere as far as my doubts are concerned.

  Let me summarize my view, even more established now that I have read various views. 

 (1) I certainly admire Mary, the mother of Christ. I hesitate just a bit to use the word love but that may apply, too. 

 (2) Some Catholics seem to be very attached to Mary -yes, even more than to Jesus. I know that this will be denied, and it doesn't apply to everybody, but I've found it true of some. This must meet some particular need in their lives. Maybe Mary seems more forgiving and tender than God??? Probably a gbood psychologist would have a better explanation.

 (3) I feel that the doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary are nether Biblical nor important. And just because the Church proclaimed them dogmas in 1854 and 1950 respectively doesn't impress me. They seem paganish, and I find no basis in scripture for them. In fact, the only two gospel references to Mary between Christ's birth and crucifixion seem rather dismissive of her.

 (4) No one has responded in any convincing fashion to my point that St. Paul, whose letters preceded the gospels and who was the great missionary, never mentions Mary - not even once. Surely, if we were supposed to pray to her, have statues of her, etc., he would have made at least some reference to that in his voluminous advice to the early Christians.

  Enjoy St. Patrick's Day. There is some debate within my family as to whether a great-grandmother was Irish or Scottish. Maybe Scotch-Irish. But I'll be Irish for the day in any case. I'm a mixture of many other things, too (French-Canadian, Yankee, Belgian, German, Abenaki Indian, etc), so I settle for American, which makes me proud enough.

  Godspeed - and keep smiling.

 

[justasking4]

Annie B;3411296]
Originally Posted by justasking4
The only love that i’m aware of that we are to have is to love the Lord your God. That command is universal and still in effect for followers of Christ. There is no exhortation or command in Scripture that we are to love those who have died. We are not exhorted or commanded to love Peter, Paul, John, Mary etc.

Annie B
But, I do not believe that it says anywhere that we are NOT to love Mary or anyone else for that matter. I do not know where it says that we are to love only God…I believe that we ARE told to “Love one another that your joy may be full”. Nowhere does it say we stop loving once someone has died.

To expierence love it has to be a 2 way relationship. That’s why in part we are to love the Lord God because we have an ongoing relationship with the living God. He is not limited by death as we are from loving Mary and the saints for example.
The scriptures don’t say a lot of things not to do. Does that mean those things that it does not forbid means it something we should do?
The other thing is that there is no real relationship going on with those who have passed on. They no longer have anything to do with this world.

I still love my first husband even though he has died. Do you think that this is wrong? If so, why?

Difficult question and it is a human longing. I can understand this from a human longing but in reality we don’t have a real relationship with those who have died. I lost my father a number of years ago and think of him often but we are separated by death. i no longer have a relationship with him.

Now, with that said, let me say this: LOVE one another not WORSHIP one another. The op was asking about loving Mary - not worshipping her.

Annie

Love and worship go hand in hand. I could show you a number of prayers and hymns to Mary that certainly relfect this love and worship.

 

[Annie_B]

To expierence love it has to be a 2 way relationship. That’s why in part we are to love the Lord God because we have an ongoing relationship with the living God. He is not limited by death as we are from loving Mary and the saints for example.
The scriptures don’t say a lot of things not to do. Does that mean those things that it does not forbid means it something we should do?
The other thing is that there is no real relationship going on with those who have passed on. They no longer have anything to do with this world.

Difficult question and it is a human longing. I can understand this from a human longing but in reality we don’t have a real relationship with those who have died. I lost my father a number of years ago and think of him often but we are separated by death. i no longer have a relationship with him.

Love and worship go hand in hand. I could show you a number of prayers and hymns to Mary that certainly relfect this love and worship.

To experience love it does not have to be a two way realtionship!! I loved my daughter before she was even born and that love just kept growing after she was born. I seriously doubt that an unborn/newborn baby can “love”, but that does not mean that I did not love her.

As far as love and worship going hand in hand, I disagree there too. I love my husband (#2) and have for more than 20 years . I love my daughter too. I do not - repeat do not - worship them! I worship God and God alone

Annie

 

[justasking4]

To experience love it does not have to be a two way realtionship!! I loved my daughter before she was even born and that love just kept growing after she was born. I seriously doubt that an unborn/newborn baby can “love”, but that does not mean that I did not love her.

As far as love and worship going hand in hand, I disagree there too. I love my husband (#2) and have for more than 20 years . I love my daughter too. I do not - repeat do not - worship them! I worship God and God alone

Annie

You may not worship Mary but there are hymns and prayers to Mary that demonstate worship is going on. In fact your church supports many of these writings as far as i can tell.

 

[Annie_B]

You may not worship Mary but there are hymns and prayers to Mary that demonstate worship is going on. In fact your church supports many of these writings as far as i can tell.

I never said that worship of Mary does not exist! The op was about LOVING Mary - not Worshipping Mary. There is a difference

Annie

 

[justasking4]

I never said that worship of Mary does not exist! The op was about LOVING Mary - not Worshipping Mary. There is a difference

Annie

I agree there is a difference but that one follows the other. My point in regards to Mary is that Scriptures don’t command it nor mention it. Secondly what is being expressed in many of the posts for loving Mary is not based on Scripture but what people imagine what she was like. All that we know about Mary is found in only a few verses of scripture and they don’t portray her like the devotional literature does.

 

[Annie_B]

I agree there is a difference but that one follows the other. My point in regards to Mary is that Scriptures don’t command it nor mention it. Secondly what is being expressed in many of the posts for loving Mary is not based on Scripture but what people imagine what she was like. All that we know about Mary is found in only a few verses of scripture and they don’t portray her like the devotional literature does.

Thanks for clarifying Yes, one can follow another but does not automatically. And you are right too that most of what is known about Mary is not found in the Bible. However, I think that it is logical that much of what is taught about Mary (not all - just much ) is logical inferrence from what we do know about her. Knowinf that she is the mother of Jesus says, in itself, way more than a bunch of words that someone can come up with.

Annie

 

[Jimmy_B]

I never said that worship of Mary does not exist! The op was about LOVING Mary - not Worshipping Mary. There is a difference

Annie

Hello Annie B,

Ok, so I will say it (again); “Worship of Mary does **not **exist” in the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church teaches against idolatry. We are a monotheistic religion, a religion of one God! All glory, honor and worship are for God alone! Any “worship” of Mary by any Catholic is a serious sin, it is a mortal sin, a sin which separates us from God. It is a violation of the First Commandment. Any behavior such as this is clearly outside the Roman Catholic Church.

That is not to say that there does not exist “Catholics” who sin, there is. Some Catholics (out of one Billion members) who do not properly observe or “know” their own Catholic faith, do sometimes act outside the scope of acceptable Catholic (Christian) behavior.

When this occurs and the Pope, Bishops or Priests become aware of such behavior, which is outside the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, action is taken and this includes actions against Bishops and Priests who are involved in behavior which goes against the Catholic Church.

How many times does someone have to post this fact here before some non-Catholics will understand this?

Much of what the Catholic Church teaches can be found here in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

This myth or in some cases, deliberate lie, is perpetuated by those who are against Christ’s Church, the Roman Catholic Church. Whenever it is repeated, often times the “source” is, “from another Catholic” but never from the Catechism, because it is not in there. Worship of Mary is forbidden! Catholics who know their faith, know this!

Lying is forbiddin in nearly all religions and this is true for all Christian religions.

A general comment:
Please stop lying about the Roman Catholic Church (not you Annie B.). This only applies to those who do tell lies about Catholicism, you know who you are.

I hope that this helps

 

[peary]

Since you are making the positive claim we are to love Mary here and now where do the Scriptures say we are? Where did Jesus command this? Where do the apostles teach this?

**I thought Jesus said, “Love one another as I have loved you.” I could be wrong on that, however. **

 

[guanophore]

Since you are making the positive claim we are to love Mary here and now where do the Scriptures say we are? Where did Jesus command this? Where do the apostles teach this?

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.John 15:12-13

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 15:12-13

“love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor.” 12:9-10

Rom 13:8-9

“Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.” Rom 13:8-9

“Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:8-13

I am surprised you would even ask this, ja4. The Scriptures are clear that love does not end with death. If fact, “love never ends”. Jesus demonstrated that His Love has conquered death.

The only love that i’m aware of that we are to have is to love the Lord your God. That command is universal and still in effect for followers of Christ. There is no exhortation or command in Scripture that we are to love those who have died. We are not exhorted or commanded to love Peter, Paul, John, Mary etc.

It is amazing that you could miss out on Christ’s command that we are to love one another. However, not being aware of that does explain a lot of your behavior here on CAF.

To expierence love it has to be a 2 way relationship.

I don’t think this is true, which is why the love of money can be the root of all evil. However, we do believe this to be true about the members of the Body of Christ that are in heaven.

That’s why in part we are to love the Lord God because we have an ongoing relationship with the living God. He is not limited by death as we are from loving Mary and the saints for example.

God’s love in us, and through us, is not limited by death, as I think the above passages clearly show.

The scriptures don’t say a lot of things not to do. Does that mean those things that it does not forbid means it something we should do?

That depends upon the Sacred Tradition. Not all of it is found in scripture.

The other thing is that there is no real relationship going on with those who have passed on. They no longer have anything to do with this world.

I accept that you are not conscious of having one, because you reject the Apostolic Teaching on the communion of saints. Scripture clearly demonstrates that they can, and do, become involved in this world. What would change if you accepted this?

Difficult question and it is a human longing. I can understand this from a human longing but in reality we don’t have a real relationship with those who have died. I lost my father a number of years ago and think of him often but we are separated by death. i no longer have a relationship with him.

I am sorry that the love of Christ between you was not strong enough to surrmount the separation.

Love and worship go hand in hand. I could show you a number of prayers and hymns to Mary that certainly relfect this love and worship.

Praise and honor are not the same as worship. There is a praise that belongs only to God, then there are praiseworthy people and deeds. Mary is a good example of a person where we can “outdo one another in showing honor”.

 

[guanophore]

You may not worship Mary but there are hymns and prayers to Mary that demonstate worship is going on. In fact your church supports many of these writings as far as i can tell.

Apparently you are very limited in what you “can tell” about Catholic Teaching, since the Catholic Church embraces the 10 Commandments, which expressely forbid the worship of any part of creation, including people.

In fact, early Catholics were martyrd for this, since they refused to acknowledge Ceasar as a god.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3412509]
Originally Posted by justasking4
You may not worship Mary but there are hymns and prayers to Mary that demonstate worship is going on. In fact your church supports many of these writings as far as i can tell.

guanophore
Apparently you are very limited in what you “can tell” about Catholic Teaching, since the Catholic Church embraces the 10 Commandments, which expressely forbid the worship of any part of creation, including people.

I know this. However this is another indication how your church contradicts itself in this matter.

In fact, early Catholics were martyrd for this, since they refused to acknowledge Ceasar as a god.

That may be true of the early Christians but your church offically has doctrines that promotes hymns, prayers and practices that should be directed only to God and not some created being.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3412463
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Since you are making the positive claim we are to love Mary here and now where do the Scriptures say we are? Where did Jesus command this? Where do the apostles teach this?

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.John 15:12-13

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 15:12-13

“love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor.” 12:9-10

Rom 13:8-9

“Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.” Rom 13:8-9

“Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:8-13

I am surprised you would even ask this, ja4. The Scriptures are clear that love does not end with death. If fact, “love never ends”. Jesus demonstrated that His Love has conquered death.

Have you looked at the context for these passages you quote? Is there any exhortation that you are to continue to love those who have died?

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3412463
Originally Posted by justasking4
The only love that i’m aware of that we are to have is to love the Lord your God. That command is universal and still in effect for followers of Christ. There is no exhortation or command in Scripture that we are to love those who have died. We are not exhorted or commanded to love Peter, Paul, John, Mary etc.

guanophore
It is amazing that you could miss out on Christ’s command that we are to love one another. However, not being aware of that does explain a lot of your behavior here on CAF.

How do you go about expressing love to someone who has died? Are they aware that you are expressing this love to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
To expierence love it has to be a 2 way relationship.

guanophore
I don’t think this is true, which is why the love of money can be the root of all evil. However, we do believe this to be true about the members of the Body of Christ that are in heaven

.
Do you yourself have a “2 way relationship” with loved ones in heaven?
How do those in heaven express their love to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
That’s why in part we are to love the Lord God because we have an ongoing relationship with the living God. He is not limited by death as we are from loving Mary and the saints for example.

guanophore
God’s love in us, and through us, is not limited by death, as I think the above passages clearly show.

If its Romans 8:39 and think this is about love between the living here and the dead you are greatly mistaken. Notice what it says about love----nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is about not being separated from the love of God and not about being separated from each other. We cannot be separated from the love of God in Christ but we are separated from each other by death and location.
.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3412463
Originally Posted by justasking4
Love and worship go hand in hand. I could show you a number of prayers and hymns to Mary that certainly relfect this love and worship.

guanophore
Praise and honor are not the same as worship.

They are elements of worship.

There is a praise that belongs only to God, then there are praiseworthy people and deeds.

Not sure what you mean here. Can you clarify?

Mary is a good example of a person where we can “outdo one another in showing honor”.

To have Mary as an example is one thing. It is quite another when you are praising her in prayer and sing songs to and exalting her. That is a form of worship.