Why is Jesus necessary?

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all 60,000 went to hell?
that would mean Moses is in Hell, Elijah is in Hell, Abraham is in hell, David is in hell, all the prophets are in hell … lol everyone is in hell 😉 and it’s a sin to say God created us for damnation?

Those stories are not the teaching of the Church? It is the writings of a canonized saint and its not the teachings of the church? If what the saint wrote is not the teachings of the Church, why are they a canonized saint?
*
Here is what the Church says in the prayer of the Divine Office, Sixth Lesson, speaking of Saint Leonard’s heavenly eloquence: Upon hearing him, even hearts of iron and brass were powerfully inclined to penance, by reason of the astonishing effectiveness of the sermon and the preacher’s burning zeal. And in the liturgical prayer we ask of the Lord, Give the power to bend the hearts of hardened sinners by the works of preaching.

This sermon by Saint Leonard of Port Maurice was preached during the reign of Pope Benedict XIV, who so loved the great missionary. *

What hope am i given by Jesus?
 
Dear UglyGal,

In the apostles creed, it says"…was crucified, died, and was buried. He decended into hell…"

He went to hell to free all the souls of the righteous,Elijah, Moses, David, the Prophets, and so on.

Canonized Saints are not canonized because of what they wrote, or preached. In fact a lot of the “saints” have error in their teaching, preaching and private revealations. Saints are saints mostly cause of their heroic sanctity.

Laughing out loud
 
At least with the Father I know where I stand and I can die with peace …

I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve." Jeremiah 17:10

I can die knowing I am judged by my deeds and by my heart

“Because he loves me,” says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. Psalm 91:14

He will protect me because I love HIm

The LORD redeems his servants;
no one will be condemned who takes refuge in him. Psalm 34:22

NO-ONE who takes refuge in him is condemned … even a black mute, blind, diseased, lame little sheep like me

Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD and thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might
O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

Laughing out Loud. Yes very funny, so the saints don’t teach proper doctrine and are canonized and held up as an example and their works are distributed for our good.
Laughing out loud indeed.
 
I’m sorry if I offended you.
You say you believe in a God who is described in the Bible
So do I
You say He is such and such
I can see some of that but some of that I can’t see
Since we both are using the same book, how can we see things so differently?
It seems to me, you are picking and choosing what you want use
to make God what you want.
I probobly seem the same to you.

I was not laughing at you.

I was being stupid.
 
Uglygal said:

all 60,000 went to hell?
that would mean Moses is in Hell, Elijah is in Hell, Abraham is in hell, David is in hell, all the prophets are in hell … lol everyone is in hell and it’s a sin to say God created us for damnation?

Just another example to show that she doesn’t know or understand what Christianity teaches.
 
all 60,000 went to hell?
that would mean Moses is in Hell, Elijah is in Hell, Abraham is in hell, David is in hell, all the prophets are in hell … lol everyone is in hell and it’s a sin to say God created us for damnation?

**Emphasis added.

By the way, you have to die to be in hell first.

Elijah hasn’t died yet, but was translated directly (if temporarily) into the world to come.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
all 60,000 went to hell?
that would mean Moses is in Hell, Elijah is in Hell, Abraham is in hell, David is in hell, all the prophets are in hell … lol everyone is in hell and it’s a sin to say God created us for damnation?

**Emphasis added.

By the way, you have to die to be in hell first.

Elijah hasn’t died yet, but was translated directly (if temporarily) into the world to come.**
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like through a magic portal? lol
I was taught he was assumed

ps: in case you didn’t realize those prophets were used as an example to make a point in response to a very specific statement … but take it out of context if it makes you feel better 😛
 
bpbasilphx said:
Uglygal said:

all 60,000 went to hell?
that would mean Moses is in Hell, Elijah is in Hell, Abraham is in hell, David is in hell, all the prophets are in hell … lol everyone is in hell and it’s a sin to say God created us for damnation?

Just another example to show that she doesn’t know or understand what Christianity teaches.
Click to expand...
refer to post #60 … is that proper understanding of christianity?
 
sawman said:
I’m sorry if I offended you.
You say you believe in a God who is described in the Bible
So do I
You say He is such and such
I can see some of that but some of that I can’t see
Since we both are using the same book, how can we see things so differently?
It seems to me, you are picking and choosing what you want use
to make God what you want.
I probobly seem the same to you.

I was not laughing at you.

I was being stupid.
Click to expand...
You didn’t offend me 🙂 I’m sorry if i came across as offended. I know you were being sarcastic and I so I thought I would be too but it didn’t get us very far did it :hug3:
 
uglygal said:
At least with the Father I know where I stand and I can die with peace …

I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve." Jeremiah 17:10

I can die knowing I am judged by my deeds and by my heart

“Because he loves me,” says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. Psalm 91:14

He will protect me because I love HIm

The LORD redeems his servants;
no one will be condemned who takes refuge in him. Psalm 34:22

NO-ONE who takes refuge in him is condemned … even a black mute, blind, diseased, lame little sheep like me

Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD and thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might
O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

Laughing out Loud. Yes very funny, so the saints don’t teach proper doctrine and are canonized and held up as an example and their works are distributed for our good.
Laughing out loud indeed.
Click to expand...
I still don’t get it. In the OT, tens of thousands of Israel’s’ enemies are raped and slaughtered at Gods command and in Leviticus adulteresses were put to death in any case while adulterers lived if their partners were single and the deformed and defective were banned from coming near the offerings. You pick and choose scriptures you like in the OT and hate in the NT and judge Christianity by the worst the Church has done at times when she’s not heeding her own gospel instead of by the gobs of charity and giving and serving and educating and healing in schools and hospitals and orphanages and relief work she’s done by obeying it. Altruism and love for ones’ enemies were hardly values before the Church. It makes me wonder if you’re sincere.
 
fhansen said:
I still don’t get it. In the OT, tens of thousands of Israel’s’ enemies are raped and slaughtered at Gods command and in Leviticus adulteresses were put to death in any case while adulterers lived if their partners were single and the deformed and defective were banned from coming near the offerings.
Click to expand...
Isn’t that your God your talking about?
 
www.evilbible.com

Maybe I am trying to believe in a God that I want to believe in … because the real one is not very likable.

Maybe it is easier to swallow a lie that God is kind and loving … rather than the truth that he is brutal.

Oh well 😦
sorry to bother you all
 
uglygal said:
Just out of interest, in every one of your posts to me, why is there a judgment about my character?
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a) your character comes through in what you write, I respond based on what I read. I have done my best to discuss only how you appear to me - which surely I am entitled to do, and thought was what you wanted.

I trust that your writing accurately reflects what you actually think, and so that I can form opinions (what you call judgement) based on it. Let me know if it doesn’t.

b) why are you putting your thoughts out there if not to get a response? Responses often include judgements, be they positive or negative.

If I came out and said ‘what you say is absolutely correct, I agree with you 100% and by the way you’re an absolutely wonderfully mature and insightful person’ that would be every bit as much a judgement, but I bet it would sit a lot better with you and you probably wouldn’t feel the need to point it out and say ‘why the judgement’ 🤷
 
uglygal said:
www.evilbible.com

Maybe I am trying to believe in a God that I want to believe in … because the real one is not very likable.

Maybe it is easier to swallow a lie that God is kind and loving … rather than the truth that he is brutal.

Oh well 😦
sorry to bother you all
Click to expand...
You mean you’re trying to manufacture a God who doesn’t exist to make Him more to your taste?

He exists. He is what He is. Try remaking your opinion of Him instead, and not cherrypicking isolated verses out of the Bible to paint a picture of Him that is skewed too much in any one direction.

Read the whole Bible - He is kind and loving indeed, and all those things you want Him to be. But He is just and requires much of us along with it, as is only right of One who gives us all that we have and are and knows that we can be so much better and so much more than we think.

My parents set high standards for me in every way, and punished me when I didn’t reach them, sure - but always justly, always provided that they knew that I COULD reach them and just didn’t bother trying. They certainly weren’t brutal, quite the opposite, they helped make me a better person. So they weren’t invariably soft either.

If you call that brutal then you need to rethink your definition of that word. God condemns no-one without giving them ample opportunity to know, love and serve Him and them consciously rejecting Him.
 
LilyM said:
a) your character comes through in what you write, I respond based on what I read. I have done my best to discuss only how you appear to me - which surely I am entitled to do, and thought was what you wanted.

I trust that your writing accurately reflects what you actually think, and so that I can form opinions (what you call judgement) based on it. Let me know if it doesn’t.

b) why are you putting your thoughts out there if not to get a response? Responses often include judgements, be they positive or negative.

If I came out and said ‘what you say is absolutely correct, I agree with you 100% and by the way you’re an absolutely wonderfully mature and insightful person’ that would be every bit as much a judgement, but I bet it would sit a lot better with you and you probably wouldn’t feel the need to point it out and say ‘why the judgement’ 🤷
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My point was actually, why not discuss the things I write about … as opposed to your constant judgments about me personally . There is a distinction that I am sure you are smart enough to see.

But I’ll leave it. I doubt there’s any point explaining any further and I know that I will never agree with the people here and likewise. Your God makes no sense, your religion makes no sense, your theology makes no sense and I have read the whole bible. I have read and re-read and my intent in coming here is to understand … but I don’t.

The only thing I get coming here is a feeling of very deep sadness 😦

I made my confession. At least if I’m wrong I’ll admit it but this black deformed sheep is treading on the pastures of the fleecy flock. It’s time to go back to the wasteland

till next time
 
reen12 said:
I look at it this way, uglygal.

God’s will is to save. If Christ turns out to be
God/Son of God, surely He understands
why some of the lambs run away from Him,
because of the way that He was presented,
earlier in life.

I figure that if some human beings can
understand why this is so, then God, too,
understands.

All I know is, when I get to the otherside,
I hope that Jesus is sitting in a green pasture,
and that He lets a little sheep come near to Him.
Maybe He will know not to say anything, at first.
Just let the lamb lean against Him, quietly.

For one thing I do know. If He* is* the God/Man,
then He saw and heard everything that I saw
and heard, that drove me from Him. He, above all,
will feel bad about this, for He knows what was
said and done to wound and drive away a little sheep.

Unlike some religious entities, He actually
does see us as an individual. He hears the
little frightened noises of His sheep.
Mostly, He has to sit there and remain silent,
so a little sheep can decide if it is safe to go near Him.
A very young part of me is likey to say to Him
“Are you a bad rat?” They said You were."
And if He is Who He said He was, He is likely to reply
“I’ll let you decide. Would you like to sit here with Me?”
His voice doesn’t sound scarey. So the little sheep
comes closer, sits near Him, and falls asleep.

reen12
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This was really beautiful and brought tears to my eyes.

It is how I think of the destiny of wounded souls who died without faith or maybe even committed suicide.

http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/items/13110lg.jpg

I have to get ready for work but I’ll try to remember to post more later.

Original sin - Genesis 3

God had a lot of promises to fulfill

Opening heaven

Pouring out his Holy Spirit on ALL FLESH – not just selected kings and prophets…started at the Pentecost we just celebrated!

Forgiving sin not over and over in animal sacrifices at the Temple…but God promised in Jeremiah that he would forgive sin, with the verb tense as a future event that would continue once it began and never cease.

From Jewish converts to the Catholic faith I know…they worked really hard to keep the law and rituals but it seemed like God only dealt with “their people” as a whole, as a nation, rather than as a personal relationship; and they did not truly find God lovable. Coming to believe in Jesus and becoming Catholic, the burden is light, and they know that God is lovable because Jesus shows Him to be lovable, and there’s a personal relationship with God in addition to the communal (in the sense of the larger faith family).

BUT gotta go for now…this is very interesting.

God bless and baaaa for now.
 
uglygal said:
My point was actually, why not discuss the things I write about … as opposed to your constant judgments about me personally . There is a distinction that I am sure you are smart enough to see.
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Well, take your own advice. Why can’t you discuss dispassionately what you see as being wrong with what God has done, instead of bandying words around like brutal and sadistic to describe Him? Aren’t you just as guilty of prejudging Him, a futile endeavour seeing as how you can’t possibly know His motives?

Unlike I who can at least make some educated guess at yours because I’m not your creature and you aren’t infinite, Almighty and totally beyond my comprehension?
 
:rolleyes: Here we go yet again. Do you get some kind of enjoyment out of starting the same thread over and over and over and over again? LOL Good luck folks… this has been a game that uglygal never seems to tire of. God bless.
 
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