Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

[paarsurrey]

What is the history of the Qu’ran?
xan
jonathon

Hi

What is the history of the Qu’ran?

For knowing about how Quran was revealed and collected, since it would be off the topic of this thread, you may if you like access the relevant chapters:
alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

Thanks

 

[jblake]

paarsurrey;:

For knowing about how Quran was revealed and collected, since it would be off the topic of this thread,

Once the falseness of the Q’ran has been demonstrated, then the issue of how great Mohammad is, is irrelevant,because the work ascribed to him is invalid for spiritual discernment.

That falseness can be demonstrated both by textual analysis, and the contradictions within it.

xan

jonathon

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

For knowing about how Quran was revealed and collected, since it would be off the topic of this thread, you may if you like access the relevant chapters:
alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

Thanks

We’ve discussed it frequently on these boards. Muslims can’t deny that Mohammed claimed to see an angel who revealed to him the Quran. This claim remains, uncorroborated and unsubstantiated.

Mohammed died without putting the Quran together. Uthman destroyed Mohammed’s Quran and installed his own.

In addition, an internal examination of the Quran reveals contradictions and problems destroy the claims of its Divine origins.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=69141
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=133158
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=182769
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=186563

These are just a few.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

We Muslims can understand that the Catholics don’t believe Muhammad was the greatest of the ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH, that is your own free will, to which you are entitled to, no compulsion.

That is because we place our belief on facts. Whereas you place your belief on blind faith in Mohammed’s unsupported claims.

GodAllahYHWH says following about Muhammad;

Don’t you see the self serving nature of this alleged message from Allah? Mohammed only had Mohammed in mind when he made this stuff up.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[inJESUS]

Don’t you see the self serving nature of this alleged message from Allah? Mohammed only had Mohammed in mind when he made this stuff

or when he granted himself all his sexual priviledges unlike any other man…or when he forbid his wives from getting married after his death…or when he gave excuses for marrying his adopted son’s wife…

 

[hamba2han]

Hello again hamba,

Why should I accept the Qur’an as truth, other than the prophet Muhammad said so?

My reply is in this thread.

 

[De_Maria]

My reply is in this thread.

I didn’t go through all because you immediately contradicted yourself:

In this message you say we can tell if the Quran is wrong by examining the Quran for self contradiction. Which you assure us is not there:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2084387&postcount=13

Then in this one you say it is fruitless to post any contradictions we find in the Quran?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2086881&postcount=34

In other words, don’t question the Quran beyond the limits set by Hamba.

That might work for Muslims, but not for anyone else.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Mr.Bee]

That is because we place our belief on facts. Whereas you place your belief on blind faith in Mohammed’s unsupported claims.

De Maria.

I believe Catholics base our belief in faith as well, (blind or not is a matter of opinion) Take the Eucharist for instance, not a lot of facts to back that one up. Even the Church says it’s a mystery.

It’s very difficult to measure one’s faith I would imagine.

I’m interested where I can find a list of these facts?

 

[De_Maria]

De Maria.

I believe Catholics base our belief in faith as well, (blind or not is a matter of opinion)

Haha! You caught me.

There’s a difference. Islam abhors blind faith.

Before You Read the Qur’an

The Qur’an challenges the reader to think about its message, ponder its meaning, and accept it with understanding rather than blind faith. …
islam.about.com/library/products/aabybquran.htm

Therefore, it is duplicitous of Muslims to preach a belief in Mohammed’s teachings when 1. Mohammed never substantiated his claims. 2. Mohammed never completed his professed mission of writing a Quran. 3. The incomplete Quran was burned by Muslims. 4. And they expect us to believe unverifiable claims that the current version of the Quran is the original which was burnt.

So, Muslims preach against blind faith but Islam requires blind faith in order to believe in it.

Whereas Christ commends blind faith.

John 20 29 Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.

Therefore, as a Christian, I have nothing against Christians who believe based on blind faith.

Take the Eucharist for instance, not a lot of facts to back that one up. Even the Church says it’s a mystery.

Correct. And we accept the Mystery of the Eucharist. But we can prove that Jesus made the claims that His Body and Blood are Real Food and Real Drink. Those are facts which are expounded in the Gospels.

It’s very difficult to measure one’s faith I would imagine.

I’m interested where I can find a list of these facts?

The Catholic Catechism is a listing of the doctrines of our faith with some explanation as to how they first revealed by Jesus Christ.
.
The Bible does not have them in a listing, but the Gospels are testimonies of the Apostles which is a form of evidence provable by the fact they are independently confirmed by other Gospel writers.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Mr.Bee]

Haha! You caught me.

There’s a difference. Islam abhors blind faith.

Whereas Christ commends blind faith.

Therefore, as a Christian, I have nothing against Christians who believe based on blind faith.

Thank you De Maria,

I didn’t intend to challenge you, I think we’re both in agreement.

In my quest to understand my own faith, I’m going to challenge and question my own faith, and that of others. I’m trying to keep it civil and dignified (something difficult to do sometimes on these forums)

Anyway. I’m interested in hearing from our Muslim friends their opinion about your statement concerning blind faith. Theres lots of contradictions to discuss?

Mr.B

 

[Mr.Bee]

My reply is in this thread.

Okay then, let me ask this.

Why is it so important that someone like me (nice Catholic boy) needs to convert to Islam? Or any other religion for that matter.

Is it about power?

 

[inJESUS]

Okay then, let me ask this.

Why is it so important that someone like me (nice Catholic boy) needs to convert to Islam? Or any other religion for that matter.

Is it about power?

yes it is about muhammad’s power. You see he was so powerful and loved by God that only his message was not corrupt. Everything else is corrupt be it Bible, OT and NT, tradition, history and even non-biblical data supporting the Bible are corrupt. Only Muhammads words in all history are not corrupt. How do we make sure? because Allah told an angel (that no one heard or saw) to tell Muhammad all this.

so because the angel (that no one heard or saw) said that Muhammad will correct the corruption of all humanity (you see only Muslims care for God’s word), so anything Muhammad says must be true and you must reject OT, NT, Tradition and even your logic and surrender to Muhammad’s words=become Muslim.

And if you want more proof about the prophethood of Muhammad, read the Quran. Allah, the all-knowing, challenges you that if you read it, you will see it miraculous…if you don’t, then its your fault and still the Quran is miraculous. This is the best miracle given to Muhammad, and it is far from being subjective or open to debate so how dare you read it and come to a different conclusion? isnt this challenge a proof that the Quran is from God?

 

[hamba2han]

Okay then, let me ask this.

Why is it so important that someone like me (nice Catholic boy) needs to convert to Islam? Or any other religion for that matter.

Is it about power?

No, it is not about power, it is about wholeheartedly accepting and subsequently living completely by the Truth… and the Truth comes only from the Creator.

Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. … (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:62)

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. … (Aal ‘Imraan 3:85)

If only they had stood by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There Is from among them a party on the right course; but many of them follow a course that Is evil." … (Surah Al-.Ma’idah 5:66)

After the Jews and the Christians come to know about the perfected guidance in the Qur’an (after knowledge had come to them), if they persist in their error, Allah will then call them to account. So the meaning is obvious: Jews and Christians, who whole-heartedly submit to Allah, have nothing to fear. And when they know that - as predicted by their own Books - the last prophet has come with the perfected form of Islam, their duty is to follow him. If they are sincere in their obedience to God, they would simply do so.

Upon entering the fold of Islam purely for the Pleasure of God, all of one’s previous sins are forgiven, and one starts a new life of piety and righteousness. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said to a person who had placed the condition upon the Prophet in accepting Islam that God would forgive his sins:

“Do you not know that accepting Islam destroys all sins which come before it?” (Saheeh Muslim)

In another saying, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

“Whoever testifies that there in none worthy of being worshipped but God, Who has no partner, and that Muhammad is His slave and Prophet, and that Jesus is the Slave of God, His Prophet, and His word[1] which He bestowed in Mary and a spirit created from Him; and that Paradise (Heaven) is true, and that the Hellfire is true, God will eventually admit him into Paradise, according to his deeds.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)

The Prophet of God, may God praise him, also reported:

“Indeed God has forbidden to reside eternally in Hell the person who says: “I testify that none has the right to worship except Allah (God),’ seeking thereby the Face of God.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)

And the explanation above, of course, ties in with what I have been saying about the story of the individual named Abu Lahab i.e. all that he had to do in order to disprove the truth of the Qur’an and thereby single-handedly destroy Islam was to publicly declare his Shahada.

In the 10-year period after the Sura describing him burning in Hell was revealed in Makkah, he did not do this simple thing.

 

[revelations]

No, it is not about power, it is about wholeheartedly accepting and subsequently living completely by the Truth… and the Truth comes only from the Creator.

Ok, so the truth comes from the creator, and you provide a scriptural quote:

**

Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

**So this says that all Jews, and Christians who follow the Jewish scriptures (NT included) and who believe Allah (we believe in God the Almighty) and the last day (yup, we believe in that too) and work righteousness (we do our best) shall have their reward? So in essense, there is no point for me to convert to Islam because I am now worshipping God.

BUT…then you post this:

**

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

**So, now I’m confused. Which surah should i believe, it seems they are contradicting each other? How is it in the hereafter, i can be both a loser, and shall i have no fear and be rewarded???

 

[inJESUS]

Maybe the second “abrogates” the first…

or as Muslims like to say, the Jews and Christians who HAD the correct scriptures, not the Jews and Christians of today, which begs the question : then how come Muhammad believed that what Christians and Jews had **at his time **were valid? another big confusion in Islam.

 

[hamba2han]

So, now I’m confused. Which surah should i believe, it seems they are contradicting each other? How is it in the hereafter, i can be both a loser, and shall i have no fear and be rewarded???

Neither Christians nor Jews (in general) believe in the Oneness of Allah.

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allâh … (Qur’an 9:31)

Elaborating on this verse, the Prophet (pbuh) remarked:

“They did not worship their rabbis and their monks. However, they believed in what was declared lawful or unlawful by them, though without any sanction.” (Tirmidhi)

Allah charges them in the above verse, with taking their rabbis and their monks as their lords besides Allah. The Prophet (pbuh) explained this point with reference to their blind acceptance of their pronouncements about lawful and unlawful things. They never examined their ruling in the light of the Torah or the Gospel. In other words, they blindly followed them.

By obeying their priests in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah, they made them partners of Allah.

Also, the Qur’an says:

{And thou wilt surely find that, of all people, those who say, “Behold, we are Christians”, come closest to feeling affection for those who believe in this divine writ. This is so because there are priests and monks among them, and because they are not given to arrogance.
For, when they come to understand what has been bestowed from on high upon this Apostle (Muhammad), thou canst see their eyes overflow with tears, because they recognize something of its truth; and they say: “O our Sustainer! We do believe; make us one, then, with all who bear witness to the truth.”} … (Al-Ma’idah 5:82-83)

And so, if Jews and Christians refuse to accept Muhammad (pbuh) as the Messenger of Allah, then they need to ask themselves who are they following i.e. their scriptures OR their church leaders and rabbis.

Again, we need to remember this verse of the Qur’an:

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allâh … (Qur’an 9:31)

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:

“By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell.” (Sahih Muslim, 153).

 

[planten]

From Revelations:
Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

**It is better to follow the above verse. No verse is abrogated. The above verse is true. If you are a Jew or a Christian (may be any sect) and You believe in allah (i.e. God, in your own way) and you believe in the accountability of the hereafter AND YOU BEHAVE YOURSELF ( Do not abuse any one, be a decent person) then the above verse will apply to you.

And then you may remain happy as a christian, a decent christian. No need to believe in Muhammad. But you must not also abuse him. That is the part which says 'Do good deeds." Thanks. I hope you have now understood a part of the problem. What I told you is true interpretation of the verse. Remember that Muslims are also included in that verse.**

 

[MelanieAnne]

Planten, may I suggest that you use a larger font size? Unless you don’t want anyone to read your posts…

I have struggled through reading it, and am glad that you believe that we Catholics can remain Catholic.

 

[De_Maria]

**It is better to follow the above verse. No verse is abrogated. The above verse is true. If you are a Jew or a Christian (may be any sect) and You believe in allah (i.e. God, in your own way) and you believe in the accountability of the hereafter AND YOU BEHAVE YOURSELF ( Do not abuse any one, be a decent person) then the above verse will apply to you.

And then you may remain happy as a christian, a decent christian. No need to believe in Muhammad. But you must not also abuse him. That is the part which says 'Do good deeds." Thanks. I hope you have now understood a part of the problem. What I told you is true interpretation of the verse. Remember that Muslims are also included in that verse.**

It sounds as though your fellow Muslim, Hamba disagrees with you in message #155.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Neither Christians nor Jews (in general) believe in the Oneness of Allah.

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allâh … (Qur’an 9:31)

Elaborating on this verse, the Prophet (pbuh) remarked:

“They did not worship their rabbis and their monks. However, they believed in what was declared lawful or unlawful by them, though without any sanction.” (Tirmidhi)

Allah charges them in the above verse, with taking their rabbis and their monks as their lords besides Allah. The Prophet (pbuh) explained this point with reference to their blind acceptance of their pronouncements about lawful and unlawful things. They never examined their ruling in the light of the Torah or the Gospel. In other words, they blindly followed them.

By obeying their priests in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah, they made them partners of Allah.

Also, the Qur’an says:

{And thou wilt surely find that, of all people, those who say, “Behold, we are Christians”, come closest to feeling affection for those who believe in this divine writ. This is so because there are priests and monks among them, and because they are not given to arrogance.
For, when they come to understand what has been bestowed from on high upon this Apostle (Muhammad), thou canst see their eyes overflow with tears, because they recognize something of its truth; and they say: “O our Sustainer! We do believe; make us one, then, with all who bear witness to the truth.”} … (Al-Ma’idah 5:82-83)

And so, if Jews and Christians refuse to accept Muhammad (pbuh) as the Messenger of Allah, then they need to ask themselves who are they following i.e. their scriptures OR their church leaders and rabbis.

Again, we need to remember this verse of the Qur’an:

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allâh … (Qur’an 9:31)

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:

“By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell.” (Sahih Muslim, 153).

Are you admitting then, that the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures are not corrupt?

Sincerely,

De Maria