Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

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FoA,

The attempt to say that Santa causes people to grow up to be atheists is totally off base. There is one reason and one reason only that more people in the West are professed atheists than in Muslim nations: we allow them to leave Christianity and live. How many Muslims would there be if there were no death penalties for converting? How many would there be if Christians could openly practice their faith and teach Muslims other options? If person in America finds the case for God non-compelling, they are free to chose not to believe. That is free will.

Did God make humans with free will? If so, would God allow humans to exercise that free will even if it lead them away from God? Yes to both. To me, it is one of the more troubling aspects of Islam that you can be exicuted if you decide that Islam is not right for you any more. That does not seem to be a law from a God that gave you free will and would allow you to practice it. Same with alcohol and drugs use. I am not advocating either one at all. I am saying that by making sin an offence punishable by death, you are removing one aspect of free will.
 
ralphinal said:
FoA,

The attempt to say that Santa causes people to grow up to be atheists is totally off base. There is one reason and one reason only that more people in the West are professed atheists than in Muslim nations: we allow them to leave Christianity and live. How many Muslims would there be if there were no death penalties for converting? How many would there be if Christians could openly practice their faith and teach Muslims other options? If person in America finds the case for God non-compelling, they are free to chose not to believe. That is free will.

Did God make humans with free will? If so, would God allow humans to exercise that free will even if it lead them away from God? Yes to both. To me, it is one of the more troubling aspects of Islam that you can be exicuted if you decide that Islam is not right for you any more. That does not seem to be a law from a God that gave you free will and would allow you to practice it. Same with alcohol and drugs use. I am not advocating either one at all. I am saying that by making sin an offence punishable by death, you are removing one aspect of free will.
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Pursuit of material rewards of the world rather than faith in things not of this world is one reason most atheists give for being atheists. They live for today and what they can get materially. Santa is all about material rewards, but he comes on a day meant for Jesus which conditions the mind to equate the two, consciously or not. Along with the lie when discovered Santa does not exist.

You wouldn’t need forced conversion and practice to reduce atheism, only good solid teaching about God from childhood, with no fairy tales made to seem as truth. Most Christians now are quite secular and their children are the same way, all having been “born” into the religion and going along with it as a matter of convenience, but not really knowing much about it or believing in it. Them in addition to all those openly atheist.

So like it or not, it does contribute to atheism.
 
MelanieAnne said:
No, but you are using the topic of Santa Claus to bash Christianity. It is offensive and you need to stop.
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I’m bashing that Santa is a lie, not bashing Christianity. Jesus and the disciples didn’t teach Santa either. If I say something that bashes Jesus who is Christianity, let me know. All I do is praise him.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Pursuit of material rewards of the world rather than faith in things not of this world is one reason most atheists give for being atheists. They live for today and what they can get materially. Santa is all about material rewards, but he comes on a day meant for Jesus which conditions the mind to equate the two, consciously or not. Along with the lie when discovered Santa does not exist.

You wouldn’t need forced conversion and practice to reduce atheism, only good solid teaching about God from childhood, with no fairy tales made to seem as truth. Most Christians now are quite secular and their children are the same way, all having been “born” into the religion and going along with it as a matter of convenience, but not really knowing much about it or believing in it. Them in addition to all those openly atheist.

So like it or not, it does contribute to atheism.
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Ex-Muslims do not believe in Santa Claus and many of them become atheists so what’s your point?

Vickie
 
FaithofAbraham said:
I’m bashing that Santa is a lie, not bashing Christianity. Jesus and the disciples didn’t teach Santa either. If I say something that bashes Jesus who is Christianity, let me know. All I do is praise him.
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This entire Santa discussion has been an excuse to bash Christianity.

As I said, it is offensive and you need to stop. Apparently, you do not understand the culture. As such, you need to keep still.

This is a Catholic forum and it is contrary to forum rules to bash our faith. You need to stop.
 
MelanieAnne said:
This entire Santa discussion has been an excuse to bash Christianity.

As I said, it is offensive and you need to stop. Apparently, you do not understand the culture. As such, you need to keep still.

This is a Catholic forum and it is contrary to forum rules to bash our faith. You need to stop.
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If I wanted to bash Christianity I would just do it directly. I accept the NT as truth, with only one differing view on the deity of Jesus. So I’m not sure what kind of Christianity you are talking about.

And again, is the Santa story part of the Catholic faith? Or do you just not want me to criticize Santa?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
If I wanted to bash Christianity I would just do it directly. I accept the NT as truth, with only one differing view on the deity of Jesus. So I’m not sure what kind of Christianity you are talking about.

And again, is the Santa story part of the Catholic faith? Or do you just not want me to criticize Santa?
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I want you to stop using the Santa discussion as a veiled attack on Christianity, which is what you are doing.

As a non-Catholic, you are a guest here. The rules of this forum are that you may not bash our faith. You need to stop.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
You wouldn’t need forced conversion and practice to reduce atheism, only good solid teaching about God from childhood, with no fairy tales made to seem as truth. Most Christians now are quite secular and their children are the same way, all having been “born” into the religion and going along with it as a matter of convenience, but not really knowing much about it or believing in it. Them in addition to all those openly atheist.

So like it or not, it does contribute to atheism.
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If all you need to keep people in a faith is good teachings, why does Islam have the death penalty for those who leave? If the teaching is so great, let people choose what they believe. It is a challenge that will never be taken because the truth hurts.

Further, why have forced conversions at all? Why have a tax on non-Muslims, or make them convert? Why not allow Christians to practice their faith in Muslim lands? Why not allow Christians into Mecca to look around? In fact, why not allow secular archeologists to study Muslim holy sites and date them? Why not allow secular scientists study the oldest Koran texts in their origional form and date them? I see a lot of fear in Islam. I cannot explain how this fear came to be, but it is there.
 
ralphinal said:
If all you need to keep people in a faith is good teachings, why does Islam have the death penalty for those who leave? If the teaching is so great, let people choose what they believe. It is a challenge that will never be taken because the truth hurts.
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Islam is stuck in the past. More Muslims in the west view such things as Christians may view the slaughter of heathen under Moses and Joshua: a thing God wanted for that time period in order to ensure that His plans were carried out, since Mohammed faced much persecution at first and had to establish Islam, but not now. Now, everyone knows about it, there is no danger that God’s message will be silenced, and everyone can choose for themselves.
 
ralphinal said:
Further, why have forced conversions at all?
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Then as a Native American I can’t resist asking: if we did a comparison on development of the two religions on just their duration…considering Islam came along 600 years after Christianity, where was Christianity 600 years ago on the matter of forced conversions? And in 600 years, maybe Islam would be more like Christianity is now? Not that I think Jesus won’t be here before that, but it’s a thought.
 
Please remain on topic or this thread will be closed.

God bless-

Rachel
 
FaithofAbraham said:
If I wanted to bash Christianity I would just do it directly. I accept the NT as truth, with only one differing view on the deity of Jesus. So I’m not sure what kind of Christianity you are talking about.

And again, is the Santa story part of the Catholic faith? Or do you just not want me to criticize Santa?
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emphasis mine]
  • except for the part where Jesus died on the Cross, right?
The last time I challenged you with this (back in post # 201) the thread diverted to Santa Claus (not to mention Jews, Hitler and the Inquisition) :ehh: . I think MelanieAnne (in post # 235 and others) is right; You are trying to divert the thread because you can not explain why the NT and the Qur’an are truth when you consider the two actually contradict each (see post # 201 again for details).
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
emphasis mine]
  • except for the part where Jesus died on the Cross, right?
The last time I challenged you with this (back in post # 201) the thread diverted to Santa Claus (not to mention Jews, Hitler and the Inquisition) :ehh: . I think MelanieAnne (in post # 235 and others) is right; You are trying to divert the thread because you can not explain why the NT and the Qur’an are truth when you consider the two actually contradict each (see post # 201 again for details).
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I replied and you left off with “I think I was right the first time; You are a confused person. But I do appreciate your effort to unite Christianity and Islam. I just wish I could help.” and didn’t discuss it further. I’m not trying to divert anything, it’s just flowing its own way. But we can discuss it more if you want.

I never said they contradict, I said that Muslims misunderstand that his crucifixion meant being put to death by the cross, not just being nailed to it. The Quran says no he wasn’t killed by the cross or by Romans or Jews, but because God took him. He was on it, he just died before it could kill him. That’s why he didn’t need his legs broken, it happened faster than the other two.

As for salvation, the idea is that Jesus gave up his life so he could be elevated to the position of High Priest who makes atonement for your sins when you bring your offerings of prayer and repentance to God, just like when the Jews brought their animals and the Levite priests sent up a burnt offering to make atonement for their sins.

If you don’t bring your offering of prayer and repentance you don’t receive atonement and you die in your sins. Therefore the Quran says that no man can be punished for another man’s sins, each is punished for his own. And that’s what the Bible says about the New Covenant too.

Jeremiah 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

If you replace real repentance just with faith that Jesus died and claim you can be saved by that alone, you are just trying to make Jesus the offering and human sacrifice and have him punished for you, instead of offering your own prayers and repentance.

So this is the confusion that the Quran is against, the idea of Jesus being a human sacrifice that magically takes care of everything if you don’t repent yourself.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
However he still commanded Jews to follow all the Laws of Moses.

Matthew 23:2-3 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

That’s what it means to be a Jew, if you don’t observe Torah you aren’t a Jew, you are a Gentile. Then you don’t have to observe all those Laws, or follow Sabbath, or be circumcised.
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Actually,Christ was calling the Jews to follow him. The Jews who did follow him became Jewish Christians. The New Covenant that God established was superior and better than the Old Covenant according to the Bible. Also, Jesus was very lenient on the Sabbath. He was accused of working on the Sabbath. The law of Moses says to keep holy the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath and not do any work. Christ worked on the Sabbath.
 
Selene said:
Actually,Christ was calling the Jews to follow him. The Jews who did follow him became Jewish Christians. The New Covenant that God established was superior and better than the Old Covenant according to the Bible. Also, Jesus was very lenient on the Sabbath. He was accused of working on the Sabbath. The law of Moses says to keep holy the Sabbath by resting on the Sabbath and not do any work. Christ worked on the Sabbath.
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But Jesus never excused Jews from Torah or Sabbath, he said that would last until heaven and earth pass. The New Covenant is better since it also ends sin and death, but it’s not here until then either, after Satan is gone and there is no more sin.

Saving lives are allowed on the Sabbath and all Jesus did was to save humanity from eternal death so by Law that was allowed. Of course Jews who protested didn’t realize all that. So Jesus wasn’t telling Jews to go willy nilly on the Sabbath, all that he did was approved of by God. He is allowed to do things we can’t.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
But Jesus never excused Jews from Torah or Sabbath, he said that would last until heaven and earth pass. The New Covenant is better since it also ends sin and death, but it’s not here until then either, after Satan is gone and there is no more sin.

Saving lives are allowed on the Sabbath and all Jesus did was to save humanity from eternal death so by Law that was allowed. Of course Jews who protested didn’t realize all that. So Jesus wasn’t telling Jews to go willy nilly on the Sabbath, all that he did was approved of by God. He is allowed to do things we can’t.
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emphasis mine]
Absolutely. 👍
And that’s why Jesus was laid to rest on the Sabbath - To save us! (Unfortunately, muslims won’t believe this. 😦 )
 
FaithofAbraham;:
but obey him as though he is God. Noahide Laws for Gentiles
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Isn’t obeying Jesus as God is a violation of the first law of the Noachide Covenant?

xan

jonathon
 
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