Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

[FaithofAbraham]

He couldn’t be killed by anyone or anything if it is not His wish…if He wishes, He could and He wished.

That’s not the point though, if the cross killed him there would be big problems with prophecy, as the Jews like to point out. If God took him then he would never be killed by men. And it would be an honor for God to spare him that final humiliation.

 

[inJESUS]

That’s not the point though, if the cross killed him there would be big problems with prophecy, as the Jews like to point out. If God took him then he would never be killed by men. And it would be an honor for God to spare him that final humiliation.

He was not killed by men in the first place because no one can lay a hand on Him if it is not His wish. In other words, He is not “the helpless victim of treacherous men”. The Messiah laid down His life as a payment but His life was never snatched from Him. No man took His life; He gave it up.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

He was not killed by men in the first place because no one can lay a hand on Him if it is not His wish. In other words, He is not “the helpless victim of treacherous men”. The Messiah laid down His life as a payment but His life was never snatched from Him. No man took His life; He gave it up.

Then there is no argument, if you say Jesus himself is God then God took his own life by giving it up. So it all comes out in the wash, same as Jesus having authority of God. Even if we don’t agree on his deity.

 

[planten]

Christians believe that it was our sins that killed Jesus.

**Sorry, I am unable to understand all that. There were no christians then when jesus was put on the cross and died. Christians arrived much later on the scene (many years) after the death of Jesus. So where were the christians and where were their sins?
It appears that you are not a christian. So I should not ask you. How can a god kill himself or allow himself to be killed? It means that Jesus was not god.
**

 

[FaithofAbraham]

**Sorry, I am unable to understand all that. There were no christians then when jesus was put on the cross and died. Christians arrived much later on the scene (many years) after the death of Jesus. So where were the christians and where were their sins?
It appears that you are not a christian. So I should not ask you. How can a god kill himself or allow himself to be killed? It means that Jesus was not god.
**

Christians just say God allowed His man nature to die then He resurrected it. Not seeing that the man nature of God is really just a human that God created called Jesus, in whom the Spirit of God dwelled in like the other prophets.

But, I’d rather see Christians believe in Trinity than reject Jesus altogether, since if Jesus has the power and authority of God on earth either way then the rest is just matter of details, like I say it comes out in the wash. Still, Trinity does keep a lot of Muslims and Jews from seeing what Jesus is all about. So ultimately I think it would be better to teach it my way.

 

[inJESUS]

Christians just say God allowed His man nature to die then He resurrected it. Not seeing that the man nature of God is really just a human that God created called Jesus, in whom the Spirit of God dwelled in like the other prophets.

if you are willing to repeat this same innovation even though the Bible says Jesus created you and the whole universe, then it’d be a waste of time repeating to you again and again and you better claim the Bible corrupt like all other Muslims and sleep “in peace”.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

if you are willing to repeat this same innovation even though the Bible says Jesus created you and the whole universe, then it’d be a waste of time repeating to you again and again and you better claim the Bible corrupt like all other Muslims and sleep “in peace”.

We already both have agreed that the human nature and spirit of Jesus did not exist eternally as God.

The only innovation in all of Jewish thought is the Christian idea that taking on a human nature means that God mysteriously incarnated as a man.

Rather than God creating a man then dwelling in the man to make the man a prophet who speaks God’s Word.

 

[Valke2]

We already both have agreed that the human nature and spirit of Jesus did not exist eternally as God.

The only innovation in all of Jewish thought is the Christian idea that taking on a human nature means that God mysteriously incarnated as a man.

Rather than God creating a man then dwelling in the man to make the man a prophet who speaks God’s Word.

That’s the only innovation? What stagnant, useless religion we have.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

That’s the only innovation? What stagnant, useless religion we have.

Innovation by Christians in the context of what we’re talking about, which is man being a God vs. the Jewish standard of God speaking through a prophet.

 

[inJESUS]

The only innovation in all of Jewish thought is the Christian idea that taking on a human nature means that God mysteriously incarnated as a man.

1-if thats what the Bible says then thats what it says…Jewish “thought” does not interest me if it leads to rejecting the Messiah and His teachings of being the unique Son of God, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator of this universe.

2- there is nothing in the Jewish Bible that says God will not/cannot send His Word as a human. On the contrary, the Jewish Bible mentions God will send His Word to do as it pleases Him. It is none of Jews’ business or our business how God sends it.

3- His Word does not mean “a prophet speaking God’s Word”. It means The Word that created the prophets, you and me.

 

[inJESUS]

Innovation by Christians in the context of what we’re talking about, which is man being a God vs. the Jewish standard of God speaking through a prophet.

again, it is about the Word taking a human flesh, not about a man being God. You are twisting our teachings.

Jewish historian Philo , regarding the three men who came to visit Abraham in Genesis 18:2, said the following:

…the one in the middle is the Father of the Universe, who in the sacred scriptures is called by his proper name, I am that I am; and the beings on each side are those most ancient powers which are always close to the living God, one of which is called his creative power, and the other his royal power.

No one would question that Philo was a Jewish monotheist; yet here we have an exposition perfectly compatible with the Trinity: the Father, The Creative Power (the Son, or the Word), and the Royal Power (the Holy Spirit).

Far from being an innovation, The Father, His Word, His Holy Spirit are in scriptures.

If Jews deny Jesus being the Creative power that came to earth as a human instead of angel, it does not mean the teaching is an innovation, it just means they reject Jesus.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

3- His Word does not mean “a prophet speaking God’s Word”. It means The Word that created the prophets, you and me.

And apparently the human spirit and nature and body of the man Jesus, which it took on. You say that how God’s Word took it on is a mystery, I say it is no mystery, that God’s Word took it on from the human it created. That’s the only difference.

As I’ve said, not a big difference for me personally, since I still believe Jesus has all authority of God even though he is only a human. But it is for Muslims who stop short of giving Jesus all his due, and for Jews who reject him altogether, because of the unnecessary mystery Christians surrounded him with.

So they won’t accept Jesus entirely as the Word of God because Christians insist that it has to mean he is God, when it really just means he is a prophet and the voice of God on earth.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[inJESUS]

And apparently the human spirit and nature and body of the man Jesus, which it took on. You say that how God’s Word took it on is a mystery, I say it is no mystery, that God’s Word took it on from the human it created. That’s the only difference.

1-this is irrelevant to the Trinity.

2-If God decides to take a human form, He is still God no matter how He manifests Himsesl, not a demigod, not a man that became God. If God decided to appear as a burning bush, its His business, and He wont be bushgod. He created everything, and He puts rules on how to come.

because of the unnecessary mystery Christians surrounded him with.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

John insisted. I dont care about what others want.

John said the Word was God. Then he said the Word was made flesh, which means God entered a human and the prophet spoke God’s Word. John never said the flesh of the prophet was God Himself.

That is all just a translation based on Gentile pagan mythology. That’s why Jesus is always compared to the Greek and Egyptian myths, his true nature was turned into one by the Roman Church because that seemed right to them according to their traditions.

Making void the Word of God for all the Jews and Muslims you say you don’t care about.

 

[inJESUS]

John said the Word was God. Then he said the Word was made flesh, which means God entered a human and the prophet spoke God’s Word

you are putting these on John’s lips.

you can believe the greek myth, no problem if yu think that the Word that created everything is a myth…this by no means denies that John said Jesus is the Creator of this world who took a human flesh. And since God can come to us as a human yet still be God, it is on you to prove to us that He can’t do this unless He stops to be God.

Making void the Word of God for all the Jews and Muslims you say you don’t care about.

i said i don’t care what they want to understand if it opposes God’s Word. God’s Word comes first, then human opinions.

[/QUOTE]

 

[inJESUS]

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched–**this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.” **1 John 1:1

The One they touched, is the Word which was from the beginning, the Word that created life, the Word of Life made flesh and is still the Word of Life…not a human being who can neither create nor is eternal because the Word ceized to be God.

 

[inJESUS]

and this:

"In the past God spoke to our forefathers** through the prophets **at many times and in various ways, **but **in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

and

all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

1- Jesus is no prophet in the sense of the word. He is much more important for being the Word, the Creator.

these words are spoken about Jesus the apostles saw with their eyes. This Jesus is the Creator.

 

[De_Maria]

… So ultimately I think it would be better to teach it my way.

My way? Any relation to Frank Sinatra?

We don’t have that option. Jesus established a Church and gave that Church His authority. We believe and teach what the Church was taught by Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[swariffin]

Dear FoA,

In addition to what inJesus said, John 1:1-18 is the conclusion about what John had in his mind when he wrote the Gospel of John.

 

[Reuben_J]

I hope some intellectual muslim could answer us on this.

Muhammad was born without a father and his mother died soon after he was born.
Jesus had a miraculous birth.

Muhammad committed acts of murder, lying & pedophilia according to the hadeeths of muslim, tabari & bukhari
Jesus had impeccable character.

Muhammad’s sons all died in their infancies, allah did not save them, neither could muhammad.
Jesus healed the sick and resurrected Lazarus from death.

Muhammad was poisoned to death by a slave girl.
Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross for mankind.

Muhammad says to kill the enemies of allah.
Jesus taught love and healed even the soldier that sought to capture Him.

Jesus (according to even muslims) will one day return from the skies.
Muhammad is today still rotting in Medina.

SO…FOR WHICH OF THESE DO MUSLIMS CALL MUHAMMAD GREATER?

PLUS… SINCE WHEN IS HAVING SEX WITH A BIOLOGICALLY UNDERAGED GIRL OF 9 YEAR OLD FAIL TO QUALIFY AS PEDOPHILIA?

Mohammad has no place in the salvation of mankind. None whatsoever!

After Jesus Christ, there will be no more new prophets and no new messages that do not confirm to what was already revealed in the Gospels, for Jesus Christ is the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega.

Remember that the Gospels mean Good News. The Good News has already been revealed in the Gospels. Any new messages will be redundant. What can be better than the Good News of salvation of the Gospels? Nothing!

The only thing now that we look forward to is the second glorious coming of the Lord Jesus Christ as the ultimate Judge and King.

Mohammad therefore is not and never the greatest. In the context of salvation, he falls in the category of false prophets that the Gospels warn us about. This is because Mohammad revealed a message that’s opposed to the message of the Gospels.

I note that 95% of this thread has degenerated into discussing issues that got nothing to do with the topic. I find this pattern happens every time a poster calls for discussion about Mohammad. There is this tendency on the part of Muslims to divert attention away from him.

I think this is simply because Mohammad is indefensible as a genuine prophet of God. That’s why Islam prohibits Muslims to question Islam and its prophet. Posters are lucky in this forum to discuss this issue openly. We may land ourselves in local Syariah jails if we do this in some Islamic countries! That’s the level of how afraid they are about the vulnerability of Mohammad and the Quran.

Can you believe it, that in calling to discuss about Mohammad we are talking instead about Santa Claus? LOL. Maybe the credibility of Mohammad as a prophet is as good as the existence of Santa Claus. Which means none. None at all!!!

God bless.

Reuben