Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

[Reuben_J]

Good Point! Here is another example:

“If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:9)

Muslims mindful of this verse and how it applies to Mohammad, would always say “peace be upon him” (PBUH) after Mohammad’s name.

No wonder how they hate Paul so much!

 

[dolphinlove]

I’ve said it before and I will say it again, Islam is a false religion invented by a false “Prophet” preaching violence and murder and practiced by backward and ignorant people. Islam is the enemy of Christ and they have no regard or respect for Christians. We have been at war since the beginning and we will be until they overcome their ignorance. You cannot sugar-coat it, them’s the facts.

Blunt as a sledge hammer arent ya hosemonkey… lol

 

[Reuben_J]

This is not a fair deal. It is lop sided. The bible is not reliable being only written by few people about Jesus. There may not be a word of God in it. There are words of men in it and changing every day with new editions. could you call such things (words of men) as words of god?
Then how could you say that Since the Quran did not come from God, this statement is not pertinent.

That is not possible. You do not recognise Quran as the word of God. So how can there be any dialogue with you !! At least i believe that bible was revealed to jesus in which changes have been made and original is not available. I at least believe in jesus as a prophet of god. But you do not believe that muhammad was an honest man of god.

Do you please see the difference between the stand of a christian like you and a muslim like me?

What do you want the Christians to say about Islam and Mohammad then?

Your statement is self-serving towards the justification of your own argument.

Ist point - at least you admit that the NT is written by people about Jesus. What you failed to mention is that these people were first generation contemporary of Jesus. Some of them were disciples of Jesus themselves while the others were disciples of the disciples (apostles).

This is a far cry from the Quran which rewrote the Bible story 600 years later.

As for whether the Bible contains the word fo God, the same can be said of the Quran. And everything being equal, surely the Bible can claim better crediblity over the Quran, at least with regards to the authenticity of the Biblical story of Jesus.

2nd. The fact that you recognize Jesus as a prophet does not necessarily means we should reciprocate and recognize Mohammad or even revere him. By telling us that Jesus is merely a prophet is already a blasphemy to us.

Our reaction to Mohammad must be to see the untruth of his statement and the untruth of his life as a prophet. Under close and unbiased scrutiny, Mohammad was anything but a prophet! This is what exactly the Christians say here. It might be painful for you to hear, but no Crhistians can accept the prophethood of Mohammad. No Christians can agree that his life was exemplary as a holy man of God, as many of his deeds were against the teaching of the Biblical Jesus.

Peace.

 

[hamba2han]

I’m curious… since Christians place so much faith in the truth of “eye-witness accounts”, then do they actually believe that David Copperfield really made the Statue of Liberty vanish in 1983?

 

[mangy_dog]

Hi

Accoding to the concept of Catholics, Jesus’ Second Coming has not taken place; and they don’t know any hour, day, date, year as to when he would come. Maybe he never comes as he did not die on Cross and died naturally later in Kashmir India, so in my opinion he is never to come, one may wait for him till eternity like the Jews are wailing and waiting for their Moshiach. A concept never to be fullfilled.

Muhammad also prophesized for Coming of Jesus, as one of his follower or KhalifaSuccessor, that prophecy has been fullfilled in the PromisedMessiah 1838-1908, that proves the title of this thread.

I think you agree with me.

Thanks

Why the CAF mods put up with your rhetoric is beyond me. Muhammad is a false prophet.
Jesus Christ is the Lord and God of all. That will never change. Did I say rhetoric?..I meant useless rhetoric.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[mangy_dog]

My sincerest apologies to CAF Mods.

I will kick myself off the the muhammad thread.

Sorry.

 

[hosemonkey]

I’m curious… since Christians place so much faith in the truth of “eye-witness accounts”, then do they actually believe that David Copperfield really made the Statue of Liberty vanish in 1983?

That was called an “illusion”, Just as Islam is an illusion. The statue of Liberty is really still there, and Islam is still just the fevered dream of the false prophet mohammed.

 

[hamba2han]

That was called an “illusion”… The statue of Liberty is really still there…

God is the greatest “illusionist” there is… and Jesus (pbuh) is still alive.

I do not see there is anything morally wrong about performing an illusion… especially when it is done by a loving “father” who just wanted to save the life of his completely innocent “son” from being tortured and killed by evil people.

 

[Reuben_J]

This is not a fair deal. It is lop sided. The bible is not reliable being only written by few people about Jesus. There may not be a word of God in it. There are words of men in it and changing every day with new editions. could you call such things (words of men) as words of god?
Then how could you say that Since the Quran did not come from God, this statement is not pertinent.

That is not possible. You do not recognise Quran as the word of God. So how can there be any dialogue with you !! …

BTW every word that comes out from the mouth of Jesus is the word of God. Even the Quran admits as much that Jesus is the Word of God and the Word from God, titles that are given to Jesus only.

All that needs to be done for the NT to qualify as the word of God is for people to report on what Jesus had said. If those people were eye-witnesses or those whom the eye-witnesses trusted, then the NT has all the credibility as genuinely reported documents. This is backed by your own reasoning.

All that was left for the Gospels writers to do was to decide on which words or episodes that should be included in the Bible. And this they did through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The idea is they could not put everything in the Gospels but just enough for people to believe. And that was what they did.

As for the Quran being word of God reported verbatim, I agree the method constitutes strong argument for it to be word of God. However, there is one big factor that goes against it to be so. Mohammad just did not have any witnesses to corroborate that all the words in the Quran are actually from the angel GABRIEL. Everything was done secretively.

We called that ‘the darkness’. The Quran was done in the dark. This does not fare well for God’s revelation, because everything about God is done in the light. The dark belongs to the Evil One, because he thrives in lies that cannot stand the scrutiny of the light.

So don’t blame us when we are not convinced that the Quran was not divinely inspired and Mohammad was not a prophet.

 

[ralphinal]

I’m curious… since Christians place so much faith in the truth of “eye-witness accounts”, then do they actually believe that David Copperfield really made the Statue of Liberty vanish in 1983?

But that is why we need eye-witness accounts. If you only saw it on tv, you might think he did. If you were there live, you know the truth. Now, let us take it one step further. Say he comes up and says “I made the Statue of Liberty disappear.” What is the first thing you would say in reply? “Proove it. It cannot be done.” This is how the claims of Muhammid seem to many Christians.

A few centuries after Jesus, a man comes and teaches a new faith. It seems very much to pull from Christian heresies that were popular in his homeland. He claims to have been visited by and angel and recieved the truth from God. That concept is not unfamiliar to Christians, but we want to see some proof. Caliming that it is true is not proof. Witnesses are needed, Miracles or prophacies should go along with it. Every single prophet of God in the Bible had either miracles or prophacies or both to verify his claims to be from God. The very statement that he had the Koran and that is enough does not work with the educated western mind.

Now, this does not reflect my opinion. THat is another story.

I am GREATLY troubled by the statement that “God is the greatest illusionest.” Is it the Muslim position that God can lie or mislead people? Can he decieve?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

A few centuries after Jesus, a man comes and teaches a new faith. It seems very much to pull from Christian heresies that were popular in his homeland. He claims to have been visited by and angel and recieved the truth from God. That concept is not unfamiliar to Christians, but we want to see some proof. Caliming that it is true is not proof. Witnesses are needed, Miracles or prophacies should go along with it. Every single prophet of God in the Bible had either miracles or prophacies or both to verify his claims to be from God. The very statement that he had the Koran and that is enough does not work with the educated western mind.

Now, this does not reflect my opinion. THat is another story.

I am GREATLY troubled by the statement that “God is the greatest illusionest.” Is it the Muslim position that God can lie or mislead people? Can he decieve?

Well God allows 99% of all Jews to be deceived that Jesus is not their Messiah. So He at least allows it. I think the Christians aren’t getting the big picture.

1. If Isaac’s blessing is Christianity, what great nation is Ishmael’s blessing if not for Islam? Regardless of differences, the Quran says Jesus is Messiah, born of a virgin, and loved by God.
2. If Mohammed didn’t come along, could Arabs have remained pagan and been fighting even more against Christianity? Or become all Jewish and completely deny Jesus too?
3. How is Christianity any better? It has been bloody and persecuted people, it has had sex scandals, it is filled with greedy false prophets on TV who are only after money. It has many denominations that go from preaching slightly different Gospels to drastically different ones from each other, which one is right?
4. If Muslims weren’t on the Temple Mount all this time, Jews by now could have rebuilt their Temple and declared a Messiah other than Jesus. So such an Antichrist has been prevented by Muslims from appearing so far, until the time is right.

So it looks like Jesus may use both Islam and Christianity to perform different tasks for him, they are the largest religions and both do not reject Jesus as Messiah like other religions.

If the Kingdom of God or Jerusalem is the Fig Tree, and if in Daniel Iron represents Great Gentile powers not Jews, and the Master is Jesus the Messiah, what are these verses talking about?

Proverbs 27:17-18 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[ralphinal]

Well God allows 99% of all Jews to be deceived that Jesus is not their Messiah. So He at least allows it. I think the Christians aren’t getting the big picture.

1. If Isaac’s blessing is Christianity, what great nation is Ishmael’s blessing if not for Islam? Regardless of differences, the Quran says Jesus is Messiah, born of a virgin, and loved by God.
2. If Mohammed didn’t come along, could Arabs have remained pagan and been fighting even more against Christianity? Or become all Jewish and completely deny Jesus too?
3. How is Christianity any better? It has been bloody and persecuted people, it has had sex scandals, it is filled with greedy false prophets on TV who are only after money. It has many denominations that go from preaching slightly different Gospels to drastically different ones from each other, which one is right?
4. If Muslims weren’t on the Temple Mount all this time, Jews by now could have rebuilt their Temple and declared a Messiah other than Jesus. So such an Antichrist has been prevented by Muslims from appearing so far, until the time is right.

So it looks like Jesus may use both Islam and Christianity to perform different tasks for him, they are the largest religions and both do not reject Jesus as Messiah like other religions.

If the Kingdom of God or Jerusalem is the Fig Tree, and if in Daniel Iron represents Great Gentile powers not Jews, and the Master is Jesus the Messiah, what are these verses talking about?

Proverbs 27:17-18 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Whoso keepeth the fig tree shall eat the fruit thereof: so he that waiteth on his master shall be honoured.

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

I do not think that God is decieving anyone. If so, how can we trust anything he says. Now, point by point,

1. No real argument here. Ishameal is the “Father” of the Arab people.
2. There is no way to know about this. Perhaps they would ahve remained pagan, perhaps they would have eventually become Christian.
3. I am not really sure how to adress this. Christianity is full of humans. Humans sin. Therefore, there are sinful ministers and preists. There is no way around it. There are Muslims who sin as well. Same with having blood on its hands. My question about this is has Christianity ended institutional persecution? If so, has Islam? Denominations are a whole different story. It is a sad statement on humanity that people alter the teachings of Christ, but they do. Besides, are there no sects in Islam? If I am not mistaken, are there not violent clashes between them? The poster on this site, Paar, is a sect of Islam that is not well recieved by some of the others. It does not make him less Muslim. I bet that some of your ideas would get you into trouble with some Muslims. It does not make you a bad person.
4. This may be true. However, it is possible that the temple is meaningless now. If you look at Revelation and mark it to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 a.d., it lines up well. The seige was the same number of days that the beast slung insults, Jerusalem sits on seven hills. The government of Isreal was in bed with Rome. There are others. The new Jerusalem that was seen is the Church.

I am not going to discuss Biblical prophacies with you FoA. I do learn from you and enjoy talking to you, but you are your own authority when it comes to how you understand these verses. Nothing that I say will matter, and I am afraid it could become a sin against charity.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I do not think that God is decieving anyone. If so, how can we trust anything he says. Now, point by point,

1. No real argument here. Ishameal is the “Father” of the Arab people.

Most of whom embrace the Quran, which does declare Jesus to be Messiah despite differences with Christian doctrine.

1. There is no way to know about this. Perhaps they would ahve remained pagan, perhaps they would have eventually become Christian.

Ok.

1. I am not really sure how to adress this. Christianity is full of humans. Humans sin. Therefore, there are sinful ministers and preists. There is no way around it. There are Muslims who sin as well. Same with having blood on its hands. My question about this is has Christianity ended institutional persecution? If so, has Islam? Denominations are a whole different story. It is a sad statement on humanity that people alter the teachings of Christ, but they do. Besides, are there no sects in Islam? If I am not mistaken, are there not violent clashes between them? The poster on this site, Paar, is a sect of Islam that is not well recieved by some of the others. It does not make him less Muslim. I bet that some of your ideas would get you into trouble with some Muslims. It does not make you a bad person.

There are sects in Islam too and yes, I’ve been told I should be killed for some of my beliefs. Point is who is Christianity to say Islam has a false Gospel when it can’t even get it straight within Christianity?

1. This may be true. However, it is possible that the temple is meaningless now. If you look at Revelation and mark it to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 a.d., it lines up well. The seige was the same number of days that the beast slung insults, Jerusalem sits on seven hills. The government of Isreal was in bed with Rome. There are others. The new Jerusalem that was seen is the Church.

The Temple is far from meaningless, it is a sign for Jews that their Messiah is here. And that Messiah won’t be Jesus, at least according to them right at the moment. In fact many Jews like REFORM JEWS believe all Jews are the Messiah. Since the role of Messiah in prophecy is to judge the Gentiles and rule the world, and for such Jews that is a world without Jesus, you can decide for yourself the implications there. So Muslims have at least acted as a check against that happening, for a while.

I am not going to discuss Biblical prophacies with you FoA. I do learn from you and enjoy talking to you, but you are your own authority when it comes to how you understand these verses. Nothing that I say will matter, and I am afraid it could become a sin against charity.

Do you have any beliefs at all about who the verses are talking about?

 

[hamba2han]

I am GREATLY troubled by the statement that “God is the greatest illusionist”. Is it the Muslim position that God can lie or mislead people? Can he decieve?

I do not think that David Copperfield lied or deceived people when he performed his famous vanishing act on the Statue of Liberty in 1983… and as I have said likewise, I do not see that there is anything morally wrong at all with the illusion that God performed some 2000 years earlier.

And to give added assurance about the fairness of God, the people who lived during this 600-year period between the time of Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and that of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), will be among those of all of humankind who will be given a special test on the Day of Judgment in order for them to escape the Hell-fire.

Therefore, they will suffer no injustice whatsoever and they will certainly be given a fair opportunity to prove themselves worthy of a place in Paradise.

On the flip side, the bad news for the rest of humanity on the Day of Judgment who lived after the arrival of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is that all of our own tests in this world to prove ourselves worthy of a grand place in the Hereafter would already have ended on the day that we died.

 

[ralphinal]

Do you have any beliefs at all about who the verses are talking about?

I am at work right now, but I’ll look at it when I can and get back to you.

 

[MelanieAnne]

On the flip side, the bad news for the rest of humanity on the Day of Judgment who lived after the arrival of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is that all of our own tests in this world to prove ourselves worthy of a grand place in the Hereafter would already have ended on the day that we died.

It doesn’t have to be that way Hamba, you could renounce Islam and become a Catholic. Then you would find the Way the Truth and the Light. The door is always open, to everyone, to come home.

 

[ralphinal]

I do not think that David Copperfield lied or deceived people when he performed his famous vanishing act on the Statue of Liberty in 1983… and like I said, I do not see anything morally wrong as well with the illusion that God performed some 2000 years earlier.

And to give added assurance about the fairness of God, the people who lived during this 600-year period between the time of Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and that of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), will be among those of all of humankind who will be given a special test on the Day of Judgment in order for them to escape the Hell-fire.

Therefore, they will suffer no injustice whatsoever and will be given a fair opportunity to prove themselves worthy of a place in Paradise.

On the flip side, the bad news for the rest of humanity on the Day of Judgment who lived after the arrival of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is that all of our own tests in this world to prove ourselves worthy of a grand place in the Hereafter would already have ended on the day that we died.

There is an issue of Intent. Copperfield did not intend to lie or decieve people, only entertain. According to Islam, God intended to make people think that Jesus died on the cross. Depending on you who listen to, either someone else died in his place, it was an illusion, or it just seemed like he died and he did not. If God had intended to save Christ, he could ahve sent “legions of angels” to save him. The fact is that God did the saving alright, he saved the world through the suffering, death, and resurection of Jesus.

 

[hamba2han]

There is an issue of Intent.

Allah (swt) did indeed intend to save the life of Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

According to Islam, God intended to make people think that Jesus died on the cross. Depending on you who listen to, either someone else died in his place, it was an illusion, or it just seemed like he died and he did not.

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- … Al-Qur’an, 004.157

This verse says that it was made to appear to them i.e. those who claimed to have killed Jesus (pbuh).

Whose fault is it if people then chose to believe the boastful words of these evil people without first checking other eye-witness accounts of seeing Prophet Jesus (pbuh) alive somewhere nearby at the time of this alleged crucifixion?

If God had intended to save Christ, he could ahve sent “legions of angels” to save him.

And how do Christians know for sure that God did not indeed send angels to save Jesus (pbuh) on that fateful day some 2000 years ago?

And the answer is → Christians don’t… and to be fair, neither do Muslims but at least Muslims are willing to admit that we do not know for sure about the actual events that happened on that day… nor do Muslims care very much to know about it, to tell the truth.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

And how do Christians know for sure that God did not indeed send angels to save Jesus (pbuh) on that fateful day some 2000 years ago?

And the answer is → Christians don’t… and to be fair, neither do Muslims but at least Muslims are willing to admit that we do not know for sure about the actual events that happened on that day… nor do Muslims care very much to know about it, to tell the truth.

If you don’t interpret the Quran as I do and say that Jesus was on the cross, but God killed him instead of the cross killing him, you have to throw away a good part of the OT prophecies that even say there is such a thing as Messiah. Like Isaiah 53 that says Messiah dies and makes his grave with the rich (Arimathea) but is raised up from it by God.

A lot of Muslims don’t even know what the Messiah is supposed to be until I tell them, which in prophecy is the promised King of David who makes atonement for sins of the world, and rules over the whole world.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Christians do know. It’s just that you don’t know Hamba. Kindly refrain from imposing your views on the rest of us and deciding what is true for us and what is not.

In the end, however, it is the very nature of religion that is the difference. Islam is about submission. Muslims do not so much love God as they fear and submit to God.

Christians know that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son to us so that we might all return to live with God. Our God is a loving God. God is not someone to be feared, to be submitted to as a slave might submit to a master. Indeed, the very concept of submission is pagan in origin.

Now, it would be a sign of your willingness to be a well-behaved guest if you would stop calling Jesus a prophet, since He is the Son of God. This is a Catholic Forum, and you are here as our guest. The constant reference to Jesus as a prophet is offensive.