Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

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MelanieAnne said:
Now, it would be a sign of your willingness to be a well-behaved guest if you would stop calling Jesus a prophet, since He is the Son of God. This is a Catholic Forum, and you are here as our guest. The constant reference to Jesus as a prophet is offensive.
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Jesus was a prophet too though, he gave prophecies of the future. There’s nothing wrong with saying that.

Mark 6:4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
 
I disagree. In the way Hamba and others refer to Jesus this way, it demeans Jesus.
 
MelanieAnne said:
I disagree. In the way Hamba and others refer to Jesus this way, it demeans Jesus.
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At least they are accepting him in some form as a man of God.

I think it demeans Jesus to say he isn’t man enough to resist sin and obey God as he did, you have to make a God out of him because he isn’t good enough for you as a man.

So we all have our perceptions of what is demeaning to Jesus.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
At least they are accepting him in some form as a man of God.

I think it demeans Jesus to say he isn’t man enough to resist sin and obey God as he did, you have to make a God out of him because he isn’t good enough for you as a man.

So we all have our perceptions of what is demeaning to Jesus.
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But this is a Catholic Forum. Persons of other faiths are here as our guests.

So you are basically saying it is OK to come into someone’s home, be received graciously, and then proceed to insult your host. Not very a nice guest.
 
MelanieAnne said:
But this is a Catholic Forum. Persons of other faiths are here as our guests.

So you are basically saying it is OK to come into someone’s home, be received graciously, and then proceed to insult your host. Not very a nice guest.
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Why will you have a non-Catholic area if you don’t want to see non-Catholic views of Jesus? That seems silly.

For example, despite my criticisms of it, I would rather see Christians accept Trinity than reject Jesus entirely as the Jews and others do.

That non-Catholics accept Jesus at all as a legitimate servant of God should be a small comfort for you once we cut through the haze of differences. Try to see the glass half full and take criticisms in stride. I try.
 
hamba2han said:
Allah (swt) did indeed intend to save the life of Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- … Al-Qur’an, 004.157

This verse says that it was made to appear to them i.e. those who claimed to have killed Jesus (pbuh).

Whose fault is it if people then chose to believe the boastful words of these evil people without first checking other eye-witness accounts of seeing Prophet Jesus (pbuh) alive somewhere nearby at the time of this alleged crucifixion?

And how do Christians know for sure that God did not indeed send angels to save Jesus (pbuh) on that fateful day some 2000 years ago?

And the answer is → Christians don’t… and to be fair, neither do Muslims but at least Muslims are willing to admit that we do not know for sure about the actual events that happened on that day… nor do Muslims care very much to know about it, to tell the truth.
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I have a general question. The Quran as I understand it is written in a type of poetry and is meant to be highly interpetive in many ways. Couldn’t there be other interpetations of the Arabic in the above verse as to what happened to Jesus?
 
hamba2han said:
Allah (swt) did indeed intend to save the life of Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- … Al-Qur’an, 004.157

This verse says that it was made to appear to them i.e. those who claimed to have killed Jesus (pbuh).

Whose fault is it if people then chose to believe the boastful words of these evil people without first checking other eye-witness accounts of seeing Prophet Jesus (pbuh) alive somewhere nearby at the time of this alleged crucifixion?

And how do Christians know for sure that God did not indeed send angels to save Jesus (pbuh) on that fateful day some 2000 years ago?

And the answer is → Christians don’t… and to be fair, neither do Muslims but at least Muslims are willing to admit that we do not know for sure about the actual events that happened on that day… nor do Muslims care very much to know about it, to tell the truth.
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I have seen this post more than once from the Koran. IT still does not answer my question: If God was willing to lie to people, why should we trust him now? If he was willing to decieve, how do we know that we are not decieved?

We do know that no angels were sent to save Christ. That would have been recorded. TO say that Muslims don’t care what happened is a bit off base, in my opinion. If they did not care, they would not refute the cross or go out of their way to avoid it.
 
MelanieAnne said:
FaithOfAbraham,

I’m sorry you miss the point. 🤷
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The real point is both Christians and Muslims go to excess in their beliefs.

Christians make Jesus an eternal deity subordinate to God, which isn’t monotheism. Rather than accepting he is a man who God went to dwell in and gave power to elevate him to be God over us, but still subordinate to the one God who is father of all the faithful including Jesus.

And Muslims limit Jesus too much as just a prophet, when the Quran tells them to accept the Bible, to see Jesus is Messiah which means he is like God and King of the World, and he is a savior to us – common sense tells us even saving a kitten from a tree makes one a savior to that kitten. And to see that all the faithful are sons of God, even though not demigods.

They both need to move to the middle.
 
Faith of Abraham,

I don’t know enough about Islam to comment on that part of your post, but your understanding of Christianity is fundamentally flawed if you believe what you wrote about Christians.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Faith of Abraham,

I don’t know enough about Islam to comment on that part of your post, but your understanding of Christianity is fundamentally flawed if you believe what you wrote about Christians.
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I think I am about dead on with both assessments.
 
I’m sure you do think you’re right Faith, but at least as it pertains to Christianity, you are wrong.

The benefit of inventing your own religion is that you can believe whatever you like and discard whatever you don’t like. It’s convenient I suppose.
 
MelanieAnne said:
I’m sure you do think you’re right Faith, but at least as it pertains to Christianity, you are wrong.

The benefit of inventing your own religion is that you can believe whatever you like and discard whatever you don’t like. It’s convenient I suppose.
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Maybe then you can go HERE to this post and explain this to me to show how I am wrong?
 
There has to be some value in the exercise Faith. But there isn’t.

Were I to refute whatever random points you make, most likely you will do as you have already done, change the subject and/or say you don’t agree.

So what value is there? None. You’ve made up your mind. Fine, that’s your right. (Unlike Islam, Christianity promotes free will.) But do not pretend to know Christianity because you do not. As soon as you make Jesus subordinate to God, you have proved that you do not know Christianity.

As a gracious guest, please refrain from telling us what we believe when it is clear that you do not know what that is.

And now I will say goodbye, as this conversation has run whatever productive course it may have had.
 
MelanieAnne said:
There has to be some value in the exercise Faith. But there isn’t.
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If you could refute what I’m saying in that post I would gladly consider Trinity as a monotheistic option and not Arianism. But I already know that’s an impossibility.

I just wish that even one Christian here would be honest enough to agree.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
If you could refute what I’m saying in that post I would gladly consider Trinity as a monotheistic option and not Arianism. But I already know that’s an impossibility.

I just wish that even one Christian here would be honest enough to agree.
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Arianism is a heresy. No one is going to agree with you that your Arian belief is correct because it is not.

You appear to lack a fundamental understanding of the Trinity. But it is quite simple. It is God in 3 persons. Not 3 separate persons, as at least one religion that calls itself Christian believes, but one God that is made known to us humans in 3 different ways.

Our pastor has explained this mystery to children in a simple way that all of them can understand by relating the concept to something they are familiar with ~ water. Water can exist in 3 forms. As a solid, we call it ice. As a liquid, we call it water. As a gas, we call it steam. But it is all the same substance in 3 different forms. To continue this analogy into the question you have posed, none of the various forms of water are subordinate to any of the other forms.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Arianism is a heresy. No one is going to agree with you that your Arian belief is correct because it is not.

You appear to lack a fundamental understanding of the Trinity. But it is quite simple. It is God in 3 persons. Not 3 separate persons, as at least one religion that calls itself Christian believes, but one God that is made known to us humans in 3 different ways.
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God’s Word is now bound to a human spirit that is subordinate to God, regardless of how it started out in your belief. You can’t get around that, unless as I said, God’s Word just threw away the human spirit and became equal to God again.

So if you don’t say God’s Word just trashed the human spirit of Jesus, how are you going to make that not Arianism, when the human spirit is there in the Son and lesser than the Father, but still a God?

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
 
Faith, I’ve tried to help you but I see that you are not willing to look at what I say, you merely seek to advance your own agenda, and, to my mind, argue for the sake of arguing.

Goodbye. I won’t trouble you with replying to your posts any more. It doesn’t benefit anyone.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Arianism is a heresy. No one is going to agree with you that your Arian belief is correct because it is not.

You appear to lack a fundamental understanding of the Trinity. But it is quite simple. It is God in 3 persons. Not 3 separate persons, as at least one religion that calls itself Christian believes, but one God that is made known to us humans in 3 different ways.

Our pastor has explained this mystery to children in a simple way that all of them can understand by relating the concept to something they are familiar with ~ water. Water can exist in 3 forms. As a solid, we call it ice. As a liquid, we call it water. As a gas, we call it steam. But it is all the same substance in 3 different forms. To continue this analogy into the question you have posed, none of the various forms of water are subordinate to any of the other forms.
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**This is not right. Either there is One God or three gods. You cannot have three gods and one god at the same time. I have discussed trinity with christian friends. they admitted that it is not explanable. They said it is a mystery. How bad to make the matter a mystery.

You can know god in three ways. That is no good. God has many attributes. Why do you limit them to three only, i mean omnipotence, Omnipresence, all powerful, merciful, Beneficient, Seeing, knowing, talking God. These are just a few of his attributes. But it does not mean that they (attributes) are gods.

Our God does not need anything. Every one needs Him. But your god needs a son. Does He really? If you care to understand, you will find some interesting things in Islam. What Muhammad taught about God is quite well the same as the belief of the Jews. i.e. as far as God is concerned.**
 
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