Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

[mschrank]

Because he knocked George Forem… oh, sorry wrong topic.

 

[inJESUS]

So you are saying Jesus unincarnated at some point and there is no human part of Jesus subordinate to God anymore?

i am saying none of these. I am questioning your understanding of “subordination” as a “lesser god”

The Trinity is about Father, His Word and His Spirit , equal in nature, eternal and uncreated.

Incarnation is something ELSE. Incarnation is the Word talking a human flesh…the human flesh does NOT make the Word a “lesser god”, because the Word in flesh IS God.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

i am saying none of these. I am questioning your understanding of “subordination” as a “lesser god”

The Trinity is about Father, His Word and His Spirit , equal in nature, eternal and uncreated.

Incarnation is something ELSE. Incarnation is the Word talking a human flesh…the human flesh does NOT make the Word a “lesser god”, because the Word in flesh IS God.

Are you saying Jesus didn’t respect the Father God as being greater and more powerful than him?

Jesus says here he needs God:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

And here that Jesus is obedient to God:

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

So the Father God is greater than Jesus in power and ability. That makes for a big God and a little God, Arianism.

 

[inJESUS]

Are you saying Jesus didn’t respect the Father God as being greater and more powerful than him?.

no am not saying this…i do not oppose scriptures.

Here is an example for you:

God decides to come to earth as a man. A true man.Now we have God 100%, and the 100% human body He takes to come to earth. Can we say God is a man? no. Can we say the body He took is not God? no.

By what logic can we assume that because God took a human body (yet remained God), this human body becomes a “lesser god” when it is God Himself in flesh? you can say all you like about the human part being “less” than God, but will this deny the fact that it IS God?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

By what logic can we assume that because God took a human body (yet remained God), this human body becomes a “lesser god” when it is God Himself in flesh?

Are you saying Jesus didn’t have to obey God or pray to Him or look up to Him or anything, because you also say, Jesus is God?

 

[inJESUS]

Are you saying Jesus didn’t have to obey God or pray to Him or look up to Him or anything,

no

can you answer my question please?

 

[hosemonkey]

Are you saying Jesus didn’t have to obey God or pray to Him or look up to Him or anything, because you also say, Jesus is God?

Christians,
Cast not your pearls before swine. moslems are either not intellectually capable of understanding Christian belief, or they are invincibly obstinate and infected by the spirit of contention. They are determined to remain backward.

 

[holdencaulfield]

What do you want the Christians to say about Islam and Mohammad then?

Your statement is self-serving towards the justification of your own argument.

Ist point - at least you admit that the NT is written by people about Jesus. What you failed to mention is that these people were first generation contemporary of Jesus. Some of them were disciples of Jesus themselves while the others were disciples of the disciples (apostles).

This is a far cry from the Quran which rewrote the Bible story 600 years later.

As for whether the Bible contains the word fo God, the same can be said of the Quran. And everything being equal, surely the Bible can claim better crediblity over the Quran, at least with regards to the authenticity of the Biblical story of Jesus.

2nd. The fact that you recognize Jesus as a prophet does not necessarily means we should reciprocate and recognize Mohammad or even revere him. By telling us that Jesus is merely a prophet is already a blasphemy to us.

Our reaction to Mohammad must be to see the untruth of his statement and the untruth of his life as a prophet. Under close and unbiased scrutiny, Mohammad was anything but a prophet! This is what exactly the Christians say here. It might be painful for you to hear, but no Crhistians can accept the prophethood of Mohammad. No Christians can agree that his life was exemplary as a holy man of God, as many of his deeds were against the teaching of the Biblical Jesus.

Peace.

Honestly how can you argue with this point. Actually you didn’t you just brought up stupid things about magicians.

 

[dolphinlove]

Christians,
Cast not your pearls before swine. moslems are either not intellectually capable of understanding Christian belief, or they are invincibly obstinate and infected by the spirit of contention. They are determined to remain backward.

I like your style… i always look forward to your postings!

 

[FaithofAbraham]

no

can you answer my question please?

“By what logic can we assume that because God took a human body (yet remained God), this human body becomes a “lesser god” when it is God Himself in flesh?”

It’s your own logic, since you say God’s Word didn’t remain just God, but assumed a human nature making him subordinate to God, subject to temptation, and all things that are human in order for God to be incarnated as a human. But yet still be a God.

So I’m asking as clearly as I can:

Does God’s Word still have this “lesser than God” human nature taken on with the incarnation, or not?

 

[planten]

I like your style… i always look forward to your postings!

**The christians are confused about their gods. They have the three gods and they have a one god. Three gods and one god at the same time. yet those gods are equal. And one of their gods is praying to the other god and asking for help and guidance. Yet the gods are equal. It cannot be sensible thinking and cannot be understood.

The christians have to revert back to the belief of the Jews and the Muslims. There is no other sensible way.
**

 

[hosemonkey]

**The christians are confused about their gods. They have the three gods and they have a one god. Three gods and one god at the same time. yet those gods are equal. And one of their gods is praying to the other god and asking for help and guidance. Yet the gods are equal. It cannot be sensible thinking and cannot be understood.

The christians have to revert back to the belief of the Jews and the Muslims. There is no other sensible way.
**

Christians,
Cast not your pearls before swine. moslems are either not intellectually capable of understanding Christian belief, or they are invincibly obstinate and infected by the spirit of contention. They are determined to remain backward. __________________

 

[dolphinlove]

**The christians are confused about their gods. They have the three gods and they have a one god. Three gods and one god at the same time. yet those gods are equal. And one of their gods is praying to the other god and asking for help and guidance. Yet the gods are equal. It cannot be sensible thinking and cannot be understood.

The christians have to revert back to the belief of the Jews and the Muslims. There is no other sensible way.
**

Problem is since the devil duped Muhammed into believing he was an angel, more than 1 billion people have been led astray and have no comprehension of the truth. Once you see past the evil that Islam spreads, you might be able to understand why God’s true religion, the Catholic religion, is the truth, the light and the way.
If you could possibly think its alright to marry a 9 year old, something must really be wrong. And thats just the icing on the cake fo what is wrong with Islam, as we have said 1000’s of times on these forums!

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

The christians are confused about their gods. They have the three gods and they have a one god. Three gods and one god at the same time. yet those gods are equal. And one of their gods is praying to the other god and asking for help and guidance. Yet the gods are equal. It cannot be sensible thinking and cannot be understood.

God is infinite and unlimited. So, we all agree that it is impossible to have three gods because one would be limited by not being the other. So, let’s not waste our time on that.

It’s true it cannot be sensible thinking and cannot be understood. Our finite nature is limited and cannot understand the unlimited infinite nature. We can not understand how three persons can possess the infinite divine nature - that they love with the same will and know with the same intellect.

We never discovered the Trinity. It was revealed to us via the bible. And we believe the bible to be divinely inspired scripture because it is a story of prophecy.

**The christians have to revert back to the belief of the Jews and the Muslims. There is no other sensible way. **

We can’t! Don’t you get it? Too much prophecy has been fulfilled to be dismissed.

That’s why Muhammad is not the greatest; He failed to see the prophecy.

 

[ralphinal]

Yeah I get all that, it’s the Trinity existing before the human part of Jesus existed. But now that the human part exists and is bound to the Word as the Son, then the Son is lesser in power because it needs the Father to save him.

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

So you have no three equal parts anymore, you have two equal parts of Father and Spirit, and then another 1/3 that is the Word bound to a human spirit that depends on and is obedient to the Father.

So 2/3 greater God in Father/Spirit, 1/3 lesser God in Word/human Jesus. That’s not monotheism, it’s Arianism.

FoA, this is the first time that I have responded to this quote from Hebrews. I do hope that this makes sense.

The Bible was not written in 10 second soundbites. If you quote it as such, you are being intellectually dishonest. Please continue reading all of the chapter. I’ll put it here

1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was. 5 So Christ also did not glorify himself, that he might be made a high priest: but he that said unto him: Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place: Thou art a priest for ever, according to the order of Melchisedech. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, with a strong cry and tears, offering up prayers and supplications to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence. 8 And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. 9 And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal salvation: 10 Called by God a high priest, according to the order of Melchisedech.

11 Of whom we have much to say and hard to be intelligibly uttered: because you are become weak to hear. 12 For whereas for the time you ought to be masters, you have need to be taught again what are the first elements of the words of God: and you are become such as have need of milk and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that is a partaker of milk is unskilful in the word of justice: for he is a little child. 14 But strong meat is for the perfect: for them who by custom have their senses exercised to the discerning of good and evil.

Note that he became obediant with the things he suffered. He was also made perfect (consumated in this text). When was he made perfect? After he had died and rose from the dead. At that time, he became the cause of eternal salvation.

It does not say he was subordinate or less than God. It says that he is the Son, was sent by the Father, and that he was perfected.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

FoA, this is the first time that I have responded to this quote from Hebrews. I do hope that this makes sense.

The Bible was not written in 10 second soundbites. If you quote it as such, you are being intellectually dishonest. Please continue reading all of the chapter. I’ll put it here

Note that he became obediant with the things he suffered. He was also made perfect (consumated in this text). When was he made perfect? After he had died and rose from the dead. At that time, he became the cause of eternal salvation.

It does not say he was subordinate or less than God. It says that he is the Son, was sent by the Father, and that he was perfected.

Who was Jesus obedient to? And who did he pray to that would save his life? If Jesus is God why does God need to be obedient to anyone or pray to anyone else? He prayed up to the Father because he didn’t have the power that the Father God does.

So this alone says Jesus was lesser in power than God, aside from all other places Jesus says the same thing in the NT. He can do nothing of himself, he depends on God for judgment, good will, and everything else.

Given that, how do you say Jesus is equal to the Father in power, and not a lesser God?

 

[ralphinal]

Who was Jesus obedient to? And who did he pray to that would save his life? If Jesus is God why does God need to be obedient to anyone or pray to anyone else? He prayed up to the Father because he didn’t have the power that the Father God does.

So this alone says Jesus was lesser in power than God, aside from all other places Jesus says the same thing in the NT. He can do nothing of himself, he depends on God for judgment, good will, and everything else.

Given that, how do you say Jesus is equal to the Father in power, and not a lesser God?

It is a matter of different roles, not different levels. Father sent Son to save the world. Father is creator, Son is Savior. Father wanted creation restored and man to be able to share in eternal life. Son agreed and agreed to offer himself as the one, final sacrifice. Different roles. God the Son allowed himself to be emptied and become man so that we could have eternal life.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

It is a matter of different roles, not different levels. Father sent Son to save the world. Father is creator, Son is Savior. Father wanted creation restored and man to be able to share in eternal life. Son agreed and agreed to offer himself as the one, final sacrifice. Different roles. God the Son allowed himself to be emptied and become man so that we could have eternal life.

Is the man nature a God too? Where is this man spirit and flesh now, did God throw it into the Lake of Fire once He was done with the role playing?

 

[ralphinal]

Is the man nature a God too? Where is this man spirit and flesh now, did God throw it into the Lake of Fire once He was done with the role playing?

I am almost insulted by this post, FoA…almost. Anyway, Hebrews 5 mentions that Jesus was perfected. He rose from the dead and his Resurected Body is in heaven. The Son cannot be divided into Spirit and Flesh, nor can God be split from Man. Jesus has a perfected body like those who enter into paradise will have.

 

[Valke2]

It is a matter of different roles, not different levels. Father sent Son to save the world. Father is creator, Son is Savior. Father wanted creation restored and man to be able to share in eternal life. Son agreed and agreed to offer himself as the one, final sacrifice. Different roles. God the Son allowed himself to be emptied and become man so that we could have eternal life.

So is the title of “Father” and “Son” just a fiction to help one understand different attributes of God?