why is NFP allowed if all contraception is wrong?

[Polluted]

The answer isn’t very well-sourced. It also says nothing at all about NFP.

Not well sourced? It’s Catholic Radio…probably some of the most spiritually conservative content one is gonna find on Catholocism media wise. Not to mention they quote canon law. What more do ya want? Is it possible that you don’t wanna believe in what the Church actually teaches surrounding sex and birth control? Honestly many Catholics dont, which is a shame

 

[Xantippe]

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=442404&language=en

Tell me what ya think of what this article says. If I hold a misunderstanding I’d love to know. But as for my own philosophy and life I would prefer not to have sex unless I’m open to the possibility of a child and future wife as well.

Well, at some point (after you’ve had 1-6 children) it’s very likely that hypothetical future wife is going to want to tap the brakes. When she’s got a newborn or a frisky toddler, she may not be up for another pregnancy right away. So you might be looking at some long dry spells if both of you are in agreement about that.

Alternately, there is a marital debt to your hypothetical future wife, and if (for instance when you’ve got a hypothetical infant or small toddler) your wife wants marital relations during an infertile time and you aren’t interested, your wife has marital rights too. That is a two way street.

Thirdly, a woman that would premaritally agree to years of total abstinence instead of NFP probably has a fairly low libido. That might be fine for your particular situation, but I’m just warning you in advance that it’s very unlikely that an average or high libido woman could honestly agree to that expectation.

 

[Xantippe]

Not well sourced? It’s Catholic Radio…probably some of the most spiritually conservative content one is gonna find on Catholocism media wise. Not to mention they quote canon law. What more do ya want? Is it possible that you don’t wanna believe in what the Church actually teaches surrounding sex and birth control? Honestly many Catholics dont, which is a shame

The question has lots of cites. The answer doesn’t have any cites.

You’re within one rude post of getting reported to the mods.

 

[Bookcat]

I would prefer not to have sex unless I’m open to the possibility of a child and future wife as well.

Such is the very nature of Periodic Continence (NFP is a form of such when used to avoid)…it is not contraception but is open to life…even during times when one has the needed reason to avoid a new conception.

 

[Bookcat]

There are many sources out there…here is a brief one:

Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI (with emph)
**
497. When is it moral to regulate births?**

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

498. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

NB: NFP is a form of “periodic continence”.

Contraception is an immoral means of regulating births.

 

[1ke]

Not well sourced?

Not at all.

The person answering the question readily admits to arguing a theory of theirs, one they state that Rome would not adjudicate in the way he proposes. They cite no authoritative sources at all.

Much more to the point is the Commentary on the Code of Canon Law as it pertains to this subject. The question answerer did not reference any canonical documents at all.

As to permanent intention against children, that is a completely different canon. It is a defect that resides in the will. Use or non use of contraception might be used as evidence, but certainly not as a determination of the will. That would have to be determined by interview. Use of contraception per se does not equate to permanent intention against children. This has been dealt with in the tribunal process. Permanent intention against children is something very specific.

It’s Catholic Radio…probably some of the most spiritually conservative content one is gonna find on Catholocism media wise.

That does not mean the question was well answered or cited with authoritative sources. It was not.

Not to mention they quote canon law.

This is not accurate. The questioner quoted some canons. The answerer did not.

What more do ya want?

I suggest you read answers on CAF from either Cameron_Lansing, Dans0622, or SerraSemper.

Is it possible that you don’t wanna believe in what the Church actually teaches surrounding sex and birth control? Honestly many Catholics dont, which is a shame

I would suggest that you be more charitable. I don’t believe you know who you are speaking to on this thread.

 

[1ke]

But that isn’t what the Church teaches. The Church teaches very specifically contraception and direct sterilization are intrinsically evil.

The Church does not talk at all about “artificial birth control” or “natural birth control”. It speaks of contraception and not contraception.

 

[Bookcat]

The Church does not talk at all about “artificial birth control” or “natural birth control”. It speaks of contraception and not contraception.

The Church does mention “regulation of births” and what are wrongful methods of birth control…

But yes the it is about he nature of contraception is very different from the nature of period continence (such as NFP).

 

[Xantippe]

I would suggest that you be more charitable. I don’t believe you know who you are speaking to on this thread.

Right.

The standard range of practice on CAF among regulars ranges from NFP to providentialism. That’s the turf that these discussions normally range over.

 

[Bookcat]

The Church does not talk at all about “artificial birth control” or “natural birth control”. It speaks of contraception and not contraception.

Yes* contraception* is of a very different nature than periodic continence (such as NFP). And “artificial” is not the key aspect (there could be “natural contraception” too - all contraception is contraception…it is not the artificial or natural that is key).

One can only use right means - good means - to regulate births for the right reasons.

Contraception is an evil means of birth control - of the regulation of births.

 

[edwest2]

Pope Paul VI explained the situation here:

w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html

Ed

 

[Polluted]

Well, at some point (after you’ve had 1-6 children) it’s very likely that hypothetical future wife is going to want to tap the brakes. When she’s got a newborn or a frisky toddler, she may not be up for another pregnancy right away. So you might be looking at some long dry spells if both of you are in agreement about that.

Alternately, there is a marital debt to your hypothetical future wife, and if (for instance when you’ve got a hypothetical infant or small toddler) your wife wants marital relations during an infertile time and you aren’t interested, your wife has marital rights too. That is a two way street.

Thirdly, a woman that would premaritally agree to years of total abstinence instead of NFP probably has a fairly low libido. That might be fine for your particular situation, but I’m just warning you in advance that it’s very unlikely that an average or high libido woman could honestly agree to that expectation.

I’m sensing some…rationalization occurring here. Do you use birth control? I’m personally am quite fine with me and said wife using NFP but if you are not “open to life” at any point…why are you having sex. It’s the exact same mindset that fosters people walking into an abortion clinic or who castrate themselves

 

[1ke]

I’m sensing some…rationalization occurring here. Do you use birth control?

I’m personally am quite fine with me and said wife using NFP but if you are not “open to life” at any point…why are you having sex.

Unity of spouses. Which the Church speaks of extensively.

After you are married, please get back to us on this.

It’s the exact same mindset that fosters people walking into an abortion clinic or who castrate themselves

What mindset is that?

 

[Polluted]

Unity of spouses. Which the Church speaks of extensively.

After you are married, please get back to us on this.

What mindset is that?

The mindset of…I’m not ready for a child right now! Or what would I do if I had another child! Or I have a busy schedule I don’t want a child.

It’s the exact same thoughts that go through the head of a mother who is on the way to the clinic doors. Like I said, if you are not open to life, why are you having sex? You realize that sex leads to children right?

 

[Rico_S]

I’m sensing some…rationalization occurring here. Do you use birth control? I’m personally am quite fine with me and said wife using NFP but if you are not “open to life” at any point…why are you having sex. It’s the exact same mindset that fosters people walking into an abortion clinic or who castrate themselves

Polluted, if you don’t get banned first, I believe you will fit in just fine around here eventually. My advise is to post less and read more until you get a better idea of who these posters are. Like I said in your other thread, these posters are the 1%ers of catholics for the most part. You just need to sit tight and wait for the “typical” catholic to wander in…then you’ll be fine.

 

[1ke]

The mindset of…I’m not ready for a child right now! Or what would I do if I had another child! Or I have a busy schedule I don’t want a child.

CCC 2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.

(quoting Gaudium et Spes)

It’s the exact same thoughts that go through the head of a mother who is on the way to the clinic doors.

Not in the least. Murdering an unborn child is in no way analogous to a couple deciding they need to space their children for a time or indefinitely.

Like I said, if you are not open to life, why are you having sex? You realize that sex leads to children right?

That may be your view, but it is not Church teaching.

CCC 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom.

(quoting Humanae Vitae).

I suggest reading Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii in their entirety.

 

[Xantippe]

CCC 2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.

(quoting Gaudium et Spes)

Not in the least. Murdering an unborn child is in no way analogous to a couple deciding they need to space their children for a time or indefinitely.

That may be your view, but it is not Church teaching.

CCC 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom.

(quoting Humanae Vitae).

I suggest reading Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii in their entirety.

Right.

There are no special trophies handed out for being “more Catholic” than the last half dozen popes.

 

[Kelfa28]

I’m sensing some…rationalization occurring here. Do you use birth control? I’m personally am quite fine with me and said wife using NFP but if you are not “open to life” at any point…why are you having sex. It’s the exact same mindset that fosters people walking into an abortion clinic or who castrate themselves

Speaking as a married woman who is currently not open to life and not having sex as a result…

got any idea as to how hard this is?

No, you don’t because you aren’t married.

What an unbelievably rude and pompous comment to make about a fellow Catholic you’ve never met and don’t know squat about.

For what it’s worth I’d give anything to be able to use NFP because I love my husband very much and really, really miss that physical bond we had.

 

[Polluted]

Speaking as a married woman who is currently not open to life and not having sex as a result…

got any idea as to how hard this is?

No, you don’t because you aren’t married.

What an unbelievably rude and pompous comment to make about a fellow Catholic you’ve never met and don’t know squat about.

For what it’s worth I’d give anything to be able to use NFP because I love my husband very much and really, really miss that physical bond we had.

If you are that upset with me, I can only imagine how you feel towards our own
Church. Because they are the ones who are pushing this same message and setting fourth the divine law.

 

[phoenix1950]

Speaking as a married woman who is currently not open to life and not having sex as a result…

got any idea as to how hard this is?

No, you don’t because you aren’t married.

What an unbelievably rude and pompous comment to make about a fellow Catholic you’ve never met and don’t know squat about.

For what it’s worth I’d give anything to be able to use NFP because I love my husband very much and really, really miss that physical bond we had.

Can you please explain to me why you can’t use NFP ?

And I am sorry to hear that