Why is our last decision the only one that matters?

[Binary]

It’s wonderful to know that God is merciful to anyone who repents, no matter how late they have a change of heart. But the flipside of that is eternal suffering for (for example) a lifelong devout Catholic who rejects God minutes before his/her death. Though it may be unlikely, I think it’s definitely possible.

So how does that make any kind of sense?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It’s wonderful to know that God is merciful to anyone who repents, no matter how late they have a change of heart. But the flipside of that is eternal suffering for (for example) a lifelong devout Catholic who rejects God minutes before his/her death. Though it may be unlikely, I think it’s definitely possible.

So how does that make any kind of sense?

I wouldn’t presume to know about God’s mercy. You need to trust in that fact that he will do what is right.

 

[Binary]

I wouldn’t presume to know about God’s mercy. You need to trust in that fact that he will do what is right.

I chose my words poorly. The church teaches that the opportunity for salvation exists until death. This implies that the opportunity for damnation exists until death as well.

Of course God will always do what is right. I don’t think that anything God does is arbitrary, however. So why is essentially zero weight given to every choice and sin and sacrifice we make, except for our decision to die in a state of final impenitence or not, which is essentially given infinite weight?

 

[fhansen]

I chose my words poorly. The church teaches that the opportunity for salvation exists until death. This implies that the opportunity for damnation exists until death as well.

Of course God will always do what is right. I don’t think that anything God does is arbitrary, however. So why is essentially zero weight given to every choice and sin and sacrifice we make, except for our decision to die in a state of final impenitence or not, which is essentially given infinite weight?

Ultimately God decides whether or not we’re worthy of eternal life-and He judges by the heart, scripture tells us, while man judges by appearances. The categorization of sin into mortal and venial is useful, and based on principles which are sound, but in applying it it’s a judgement man makes based on appearances-we don’t know the heart.

 

[Joe_5859]

I wouldn’t say that all previous decisions have zero weight. In general, we die how we live. If we spend our entire life striving to grow in virtue and make good decisions, the likelihood of dying while rejecting God is dramatically reduced. Conversely, if we spend our entire life chasing after vices and making bad decisions, the chance of dying in God’s grace is more remote.

I would say that the latter is more likely to happen than the former, though. The prospect of an imminent death is a powerful motivator to call upon God’s mercy.

 

[Binary]

I wouldn’t say that all previous decisions have zero weight. In general, we die how we live. If we spend our entire life striving to grow in virtue and make good decisions, the likelihood of dying while rejecting God is dramatically reduced. Conversely, if we spend our entire life chasing after vices and making bad decisions, the chance of dying in God’s grace is more remote.

I would say that the latter is more likely to happen than the former, though. The prospect of an imminent death is a powerful motivator to call upon God’s mercy.

I completely agree. I’m saying that there is a very unlikely but possible scenario that seems to indicate that in terms of judgment, the only thing that matters is our spiritual state at the time of our death.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Our last decision is our FINAL decision. Remember, time is an illusion. When we decide at the end of our “time” it is the one and only decision we have to make.

 

[meltzerboy]

I would draw a comparison with the belief in once saved, always saved. One can defend that belief by saying that if a person commits many mortal sins after acceptance of Jesus, that really means they had not truly accepted Jesus in the first place. Likewise, if a person does not do good deeds after accepting Jesus, that means there was little faith there to begin with. In the same way, if a person rejects Jesus at death after leading a moral life of acceptance, that may mean the life of that individual was really not conducted according to the the teachings of G-d. It may have only appeared to be so. Further, one’s renunciation of G-d at death may be prompted by pain and suffering, even medication, so that it does not reflect what one feels in one’s heart.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I chose my words poorly. The church teaches that the opportunity for salvation exists until death. This implies that the opportunity for damnation exists until death as well.

Of course God will always do what is right. I don’t think that anything God does is arbitrary, however. So why is essentially zero weight given to every choice and sin and sacrifice we make, except for our decision to die in a state of final impenitence or not, which is essentially given infinite weight?

My point is that I don’t think you can throw a rule book at God. God will judge all people according to his wisdom. Which is infinitely wiser than any of us can imagine.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I chose my words poorly. The church teaches that the opportunity for salvation exists until death. This implies that the opportunity for damnation exists until death as well.

Of course God will always do what is right. I don’t think that anything God does is arbitrary, however. So why is essentially zero weight given to every choice and sin and sacrifice we make, except for our decision to die in a state of final impenitence or not, which is essentially given infinite weight?

Actually, plenty of ‘weight’ is given to all our choices.

Consider this: Scenario A: You have a person who has lived a very sinful life and yet at the last moment REPENTS and chooses salvation.

God looks at it this way, as He says in Scripture, “There is more rejoicing in heaven over one repentent sinner than 99 righteous ones” . . .because the righteous ones were on the path to salvation but the sinner was on his way to hell–yet REPENTED and was saved.

The more and greater the sins, the more GLORY it gives to God that such a man CHOSE LIFE at the end.

Now: Scenario B: You have a person who lived a very good life, lots of virtues, actions of mercy and kindness, yet at the last moment rebels and chooses damnation.

Again --the more and greater the actions of virtue in this life, the greater weight they give to that person’s REBELLIOUS CHOICE --that a person could have once been on the way to heaven and shown it by love of God through good deeds --and yet THROWN IT ALL AWAY, to reject God. Oh all those ‘good deeds’ count all right. . .they were so ‘great’ and good but the person choose to deny THEM as well, and so they don’t even count as a ‘drop in the bucket’ or ‘powder on the scales’ as Scripture puts it.

 

[4Horsemen]

I recall learning in CCD that a dying person who lived a sinful life and never went to the sacrament of Reconciliation must have absolutely perfect contrition to attain the happiness of Heaven and seeing the Beatific Vision. Perfect contrition comes from deep in our hearts, that love of God which propels one’s desire for forgiveness due to the great injustice of sin to Our Lord, not because of fear of Hell. That person, who only fears Hell, would probably go back to his evil ways if healed of his illness. Only perfect contrition opens Heaven’s door.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

It’s wonderful to know that God is merciful to anyone who repents, no matter how late they have a change of heart. But the flipside of that is eternal suffering for (for example) a lifelong devout Catholic who rejects God minutes before his/her death. Though it may be unlikely, I think it’s definitely possible.

So how does that make any kind of sense?

… my dear friend ,

… the possibilities of gods infinite love and mercy are endless and we can’t be absolutely certain how god would deal with such a dilemma , but god usually ensures his true friends die in grace even if they stumble near the end , nothing is impossible to god at all , as a pure specualation they may have a near death exp where they are given an opportunity to prepare for death about to happen and none may know , but don’t get presumptuous as this is the greatest poison one can take that may lead to such a predicament , live as you want to die , that is the answer , and if you do gods will then don’t worry but just trust in gods love and mercy , nothing is iimpossible with god at all …

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[tonyrey]

Our last decision is our FINAL decision. Remember, time is an illusion. When we decide at the end of our “time” it is the one and only decision we have to make.

If we can no longer make any decisions we cease to be persons…

 

[Contarini]

It’s wonderful to know that God is merciful to anyone who repents, no matter how late they have a change of heart. But the flipside of that is eternal suffering for (for example) a lifelong devout Catholic who rejects God minutes before his/her death. Though it may be unlikely, I think it’s definitely possible.

So how does that make any kind of sense?

Our last decision is the sum of all the others. Our decisions influence each other. They aren’t random, isolated events. I don’t believe in “eternal security,” but I do think it’s vanishingly unlikely that someone who had been a godly person for years would suddenly renounce Christ. Still, that’s not the same as impossible. And, of course, we are all probably a lot less godly than we think. So I think the Catholic approach of humbly asking for the grace of final perseverance and a holy death is absolutely the right one.

Edwin

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Isn’t it a teaching, not dogma nor doctrine, that we receive a final chance of repentance after death when we stand before God? Certainly fits the doctrines of “choosing to go to Hell” and God’s ever mercy and justice. Could be wrong though.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Isn’t it a teaching, not dogma nor doctrine, that we receive a final chance of repentance after death when we stand before God? Certainly fits the doctrines of “choosing to go to Hell” and God’s ever mercy and justice. Could be wrong though.

… my dear friend ,

… it’s wrong , don’t presume that or you could well be in a serious spot of bother , pray your hail mary’s , … pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death , amen …

… may god bless amd love you ,

… john …

 

[fhansen]

I think we all too easily misunderstand the nature of God if we think He’s bound to get us on a technicality-almost as if He has no other choice- if we live an otherwise decent life but mess up in the end. This is strictly not the nature of God -or the nature of love.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

… my dear friend ,

… it’s wrong , don’t presume that or you could well be in a serious spot of bother , pray your hail mary’s , … pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death , amen …

… may god bless amd love you ,

… john …

Note: I don’t assume this for myself, for I follow all of what the Church teaches, as good as a catechumen can.

Observations and Questions: So what happened to people that died after the death and resurrection of Christ? The people across the world that did not receive the good news yet but lived in a state of mortal sin? How long did it take for the Gospel to reach the world, and yet there are people who do not yet know it today. What of people today who truly did not know Christ or His Church and yet died in mortal sin, but were unable to repent based on unacquired knowledge? Are all these people damned to Hell because they did not receive the Truth? If not, then it’s possible there is repentance after death?

We see that those that died before Christ were in Purgatory and were ministered to by Christ for three days. They received repentance after their deaths.

Besides paragraph 393 of the Catechism, which is based off St. John Damascene’s “De Fide Orthodoxa, Book II, Chapter 4, last paragraph”, is there anything else on this?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Note: I don’t assume this for myself, for I follow all of what the Church teaches, as good as a catechumen can.

Observations and Questions: So what happened to people that died after the death and resurrection of Christ? The people across the world that did not receive the good news yet but lived in a state of mortal sin? How long did it take for the Gospel to reach the world, and yet there are people who do not yet know it today. What of people today who truly did not know Christ or His Church and yet died in mortal sin, but were unable to repent based on unacquired knowledge? Are all these people damned to Hell because they did not receive the Truth? If not, then it’s possible there is repentance after death?

We see that those that died before Christ were in Purgatory and were ministered to by Christ for three days. They received repentance after their deaths.

Besides paragraph 393 of the Catechism, which is based off St. John Damascene’s “De Fide Orthodoxa, Book II, Chapter 4, last paragraph”, is there anything else on this?

… my dear friend ,

… god and christ are outside time , and indeed there is no time in our world either , this is an eternal realm , time and change are but a necessary illusion , so christs redemptive and salvific work is in " now " and not limited to or a time , but is truly eternal , and all men from the first benefit , the church has always taught basically anyone can be saved by following his conscience as he understands it and repenting of gave violations of his conscience , even if he has no knowledge of god , christ , religion nor anything – in certain curcumstances …

…gods judgments are different to mans , god judges the truly unfortunate and ignorant on the basis of what they would do if they knew the truth and whole truth , only god can know this , and there are beyond infinite variables that go into gods judhments of man , we can’t judge because we are not god and always get it infinitely wrong , hence we are forbidden to judge others by christ , the judgment will go very easy on the ignorant of christ and his church , but knowlegeable catholics have much more expected of them , but infinite variables come into play , so trust in gods mercy and love , god is not evil and cruel and is infinitely merciful and generous so his hudgments are not so clear cut …

… you don’t repent in purgatory , it’s a place where if you have imperfect love it is purified and made perfect so you can experience heaven , and we must remember that whilst the church is the voice of christ in the world with the sweet christ on earth the pope speaking and teaching with full authority from christ our faith is all infinite mystery beyond mans mind , and all things are possible with god even if we can’t figure it out or understabnd it , just have blind trust and faith in god , because god will always be the absolute unkowable to us , he is way beyond infinitely out of the reach of our minds and it will always be like this , just trust god dear friend …

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[4Horsemen]

What about the spiritual status of one who was once a Catholic but, as a young adult, converted to another religion that is not Christian (Islam). In spite of all protestations and entreaties and explanations of her “mistake”, she continues in this heretical situation. but worships God as she sees fit praying and fasting. She believes she has done the right thing although she is deceiving herself. But perhaps she is just so misguided that she can’t see the truth of her situation although it’s been pointed out to her numerous times. I know God is merciful and can open Heaven to anyone who repents. But what if a person doesn’t repent of apostasy? Even at the time of death? The same question could probably be asked about other beliefs including atheism and agnosticism. I suppose the answer is a burst of God’s grace at time of death, but death can come quickly.