D
deondre
Guest
How is it wrong? I would most definitely love to know.
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MP_Kid
Guest
Which type of Protestantism? Lutheran? Baptists?
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Sir2v4
Guest
A chief milestone was Martin Luther’s translation of the Bible into German, in which he added the word “alone” to the verse that said we are saved by faith. Luther said that adding the word "alone’ – saved by faith ‘alone’ – was the sense of the verse. But then he and the other reformers took that literally and ran with it – which is not what St. Paul taught.
along with devaluing a number of books in the Old Testament that were too Catholic for Luther to include in his Bible, this “bible” has become the standard for all the variants of Protestants – this has to stand out as the primary error of protestantism – rewriting the Bible to suit Luther’s prejudices.
The preceding events reflected a rejection of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. The pope is not a dictator, but he is the visible sign of unity of the Church, which Jesus prayed for in John 17. Protestantism shattered that unity and trampled the words of Christ.
Wrapped up in this revisionist spaghetti is the idea of personal interpretation of the Bible – not only did protestantism promote the idea of personal interpretation, but that personal interpretation could be ANY interpretation – you guessed it — except the Catholic interpretation.
I find that Protestants are sincere but otherwise obsessed with attacking the Catholic by Church quoting the Bible out of context.
Dr. David Anders (EWTN tv and radio) has a website and he explained what Luther’s REAL objection was – it wasn’t the problem of selling of indulgences – it was something very technical that I can’t recall. But the proper explanation is probably to be found on that website. Anders provides the piece of the puzzle that Luther was missing.
Regarding Luther’s german translation of the Bible, he dropped out books for which the Hebrew original could not be found. He didn’t accept the authority of the books which, in his day, were only preserved in Greek.
In retrospect, that decision was a bad one for two reasons. 1) as I understand it, the Hebrew versions of those books WERE found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, so Luther was too skeptical about 2) accepting as canonical the scrolls that the Jews translated and became what is now the Septuagint. What better evidence for what books were spiritually authoritative than what the Jews, themselves, translated for Jews living outside Palestine who could not understand the original Hebrew. 3) Then, too, the Septuagint was itself a translation from the hebrew, and Luther seemed to resist making a translation from a translation of the original. He wanted the originals to work from, which isn’t totally a bad idea, if he hadn’t disregarded the testimony of the Jews who composed the Septuagint. Not only did the Septuagint take that snapshot of the scrolls that the Jews thought important, but it became a sort of dictionary for the ancient Hebrew which scholars did not otherwise possess.
This should be a start in understanding things.
along with devaluing a number of books in the Old Testament that were too Catholic for Luther to include in his Bible, this “bible” has become the standard for all the variants of Protestants – this has to stand out as the primary error of protestantism – rewriting the Bible to suit Luther’s prejudices.
The preceding events reflected a rejection of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. The pope is not a dictator, but he is the visible sign of unity of the Church, which Jesus prayed for in John 17. Protestantism shattered that unity and trampled the words of Christ.
Wrapped up in this revisionist spaghetti is the idea of personal interpretation of the Bible – not only did protestantism promote the idea of personal interpretation, but that personal interpretation could be ANY interpretation – you guessed it — except the Catholic interpretation.
I find that Protestants are sincere but otherwise obsessed with attacking the Catholic by Church quoting the Bible out of context.
Dr. David Anders (EWTN tv and radio) has a website and he explained what Luther’s REAL objection was – it wasn’t the problem of selling of indulgences – it was something very technical that I can’t recall. But the proper explanation is probably to be found on that website. Anders provides the piece of the puzzle that Luther was missing.
Regarding Luther’s german translation of the Bible, he dropped out books for which the Hebrew original could not be found. He didn’t accept the authority of the books which, in his day, were only preserved in Greek.
In retrospect, that decision was a bad one for two reasons. 1) as I understand it, the Hebrew versions of those books WERE found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, so Luther was too skeptical about 2) accepting as canonical the scrolls that the Jews translated and became what is now the Septuagint. What better evidence for what books were spiritually authoritative than what the Jews, themselves, translated for Jews living outside Palestine who could not understand the original Hebrew. 3) Then, too, the Septuagint was itself a translation from the hebrew, and Luther seemed to resist making a translation from a translation of the original. He wanted the originals to work from, which isn’t totally a bad idea, if he hadn’t disregarded the testimony of the Jews who composed the Septuagint. Not only did the Septuagint take that snapshot of the scrolls that the Jews thought important, but it became a sort of dictionary for the ancient Hebrew which scholars did not otherwise possess.
This should be a start in understanding things.
po18guy
Well-known member
Jesus did not teach one single uniquely Protestant doctrine. Not one. It is a man-made invention from 1500s Europe. Facts are facts.
How could Jesus teach bible alone when there was no bible? Where did He teach that we are to run to the printed page to learn and solve disputes?
He did not.
How could Jesus teach bible alone when there was no bible? Where did He teach that we are to run to the printed page to learn and solve disputes?
He did not.
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jgaw1234
Guest
Where there is division there is sin.
The protestant reformers mistakenly took the personal sin of some Catholics and placed those sins on the Church’s doctrines as if the teachings of the Church were wrong.
God said He would would lead us into all truth and that He would be with us always. If there was a total apostasy as protestantism claims, that turns God into a liar.
The protestant reformers mistakenly took the personal sin of some Catholics and placed those sins on the Church’s doctrines as if the teachings of the Church were wrong.
God said He would would lead us into all truth and that He would be with us always. If there was a total apostasy as protestantism claims, that turns God into a liar.
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De_Maria
Guest
The chief error is the establishment of authorities which contradict the authority which Jesus Christ exercises through the Catholic Church.
Thereafter, they continued to add errors to Christian doctrine. They also recognized their errors and continued to add more and conflicting authorities until it has devolved into an estimated 40+ thousands of denominations.
C
commenter
Guest
Protestantism is wrong because there are no boundaries. One extreme consider the United Church of Christ, or even the ultimate, Unitarians, and other mainline groups. They have eliminated almost all traditional dogma, and slide each year into a closer obedience to the secular culture. There is no authority to say “you’ve gone too far, you have crossed over a line, you are no longer Protestant or Christian”. Unitarians today do not mention being Christian, but they formerly did.
Even if you reject those liberal groups from Protestant category, there are liberal wannabe groups in the grey area sliding in that direction, such as Episcopal, or ELCA. Your judgment on the Protestantism or Christianity of these groups in 2017 might be different if you looked a decade earlier or later.
In the other direction, there are groups such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jonestown group, the Waco group, or any number of others, who all contradict the major denominations and each other. There is no authority to say “You are not Protestant Christians, you are a cult!” There is no one who can say “you are unscriptural!” because Protestantism is based on private interpretation. Even an extreme case such as Mormons, can still justify their continuing Christianity credentials, since “private interpretation” might logically extend to adding books to the canon. Who is to say not? (Even the UCC has recently suggested certain books be added).
Again, you have the “grey area” groups such as Seventh Day Adventists, and others, regarded as a little cultish by some, regular by others. Who draws the line? Or rather, who redraws the line this decade?
Some would argue the Mormons and JW’s are not “Protestant” because they originated in America. But so what? They were founded by people who did have religious backgrounds going back to the Reformation in Europe.
There really are 3 categories of groups: 1)RCC; 2)the EO/OO; and, 3) every other group who claims to be Christian.
Even if you reject those liberal groups from Protestant category, there are liberal wannabe groups in the grey area sliding in that direction, such as Episcopal, or ELCA. Your judgment on the Protestantism or Christianity of these groups in 2017 might be different if you looked a decade earlier or later.
In the other direction, there are groups such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jonestown group, the Waco group, or any number of others, who all contradict the major denominations and each other. There is no authority to say “You are not Protestant Christians, you are a cult!” There is no one who can say “you are unscriptural!” because Protestantism is based on private interpretation. Even an extreme case such as Mormons, can still justify their continuing Christianity credentials, since “private interpretation” might logically extend to adding books to the canon. Who is to say not? (Even the UCC has recently suggested certain books be added).
Again, you have the “grey area” groups such as Seventh Day Adventists, and others, regarded as a little cultish by some, regular by others. Who draws the line? Or rather, who redraws the line this decade?
Some would argue the Mormons and JW’s are not “Protestant” because they originated in America. But so what? They were founded by people who did have religious backgrounds going back to the Reformation in Europe.
There really are 3 categories of groups: 1)RCC; 2)the EO/OO; and, 3) every other group who claims to be Christian.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
When you leave the Catholic Church, you distance yourself from Jesus, because you will not be receiving Jesus in the Holy Eucharist any more. Protestant ministers cannot transform bread and wine into Jesus’ body and blood. Many Protestant churches don’t even believe in that. They think communion is just some symbolic gesture where you eat a snack together.
Also, you’re basically putting your own ego ahead of God’s original one true Church. You’re saying, “I don’t need the Church, I can go join some other guy’s church, or just read my Bible at home, and be just as close to Jesus.” Wrong. The correct thing to do, if you have differences with the Catholic Church, is to stay in it and try to work out differences or if that fails, offer up whatever you have to sacrifice that bothers you, and pray.
By leaving the Catholic Church, you sow division and weaken the overall Church community. All to serve the ego of men like Luther and Calvin who thought they “knew better”. And you lose so much of the richness of the overall faith.
Also, you’re basically putting your own ego ahead of God’s original one true Church. You’re saying, “I don’t need the Church, I can go join some other guy’s church, or just read my Bible at home, and be just as close to Jesus.” Wrong. The correct thing to do, if you have differences with the Catholic Church, is to stay in it and try to work out differences or if that fails, offer up whatever you have to sacrifice that bothers you, and pray.
By leaving the Catholic Church, you sow division and weaken the overall Church community. All to serve the ego of men like Luther and Calvin who thought they “knew better”. And you lose so much of the richness of the overall faith.
K
Kei
Guest
Imagine, for a moment if you will, that I said
What is wrong with this?
(2x+3)^2 -(1x-2)=40
X=4
It of course is wrong.
X does not equal four.
But if someone said, “all math is good, the details don’t matter,”
It would be an offense to mathematicians everywhere.
What is wrong with this?
(2x+3)^2 -(1x-2)=40
X=4
It of course is wrong.
X does not equal four.
But if someone said, “all math is good, the details don’t matter,”
It would be an offense to mathematicians everywhere.
O
omgriley
Guest
That seems mildly inappropriate. Cool it. We’re all Christians here, Protestant or Catholic.
Catholics didn’t execute any more Protestants during the Reformation than Protestants did Catholics and other Protestants. Have you ever heard of Calvinism and Puritanism?
And is the devil really in the details? Or is he in the oversimplification of theology? Is he in the watered down theology, in which one gains little value?
Yes of course “God loves you.” But what can we do with that? Left by itself, we can’t do anything with. That’s obviously not all there is to Revealed Truth. Who is God? If He loves me, how can I love Him back? What are His demands of me? Can He demand anything of me? If God reveals Truths about Himself to the world, whose to say what they are and how we should interpret them?
Protestants cut themselves off from the wealth of Divinely revealed truths because they refuse to accept any authority except their own interpretation of Scriptures. That’s what causes division. That’s where the devil is.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
First of all, I’m not “conservative”. Second of all, nobody is getting beheaded around here, I’ve been married to a Protestant for almost 25 years. Third of all, there is a LOT more to Catholicism than foofy “God Loves You” stuff. That’s the starting point, for the three-year-old child or the person just discovering Jesus for the first time. We don’t stop there and just say, “oh we can just do what we want because God loves us.” Catholicism is also about how to love God back.
The Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist is not a “detail of doctrine and dogma and differences”. It’s the basic truth of our faith, which Protestants threw away when they walked out the door because they decided they knew better than the Pope. Fact.
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T
Thom18
Guest
There’s many reasons. One of the biggest is the fact that protestants don’t have valid apostolic succession- no, not even one denomination. The only two churches that can make this claim and defend it are Catholics and Orthodox.
Why does this matter? Consider this: in the Old Testament, could Jews (or gentiles) take off with what they knew of the Law of Moses and act as a priest? Of course not, because only the sons of Aaron, aided by the Levites, could act as God’s priests. So it is today: only those who are part of the priestly “family” (have been ordained by a bishop, who received his ordination from an unbroken line going back to the apostles) could act as such.
Why does this matter? Consider this: in the Old Testament, could Jews (or gentiles) take off with what they knew of the Law of Moses and act as a priest? Of course not, because only the sons of Aaron, aided by the Levites, could act as God’s priests. So it is today: only those who are part of the priestly “family” (have been ordained by a bishop, who received his ordination from an unbroken line going back to the apostles) could act as such.
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MT1926
Guest
I would recommend next time thinking about rephrasing your question or ask for specifics.
To ask why something is wrong is just inviting everyone to join into an argument. It sets up an atmosphere of anger which will never be beneficial for dialogue.
I like the way Fr. John Trigilio said it last week on CAL. It’s not that Protestantism is wrong, they hold to many of the same beliefs as we do. The way he put it is that Protestants do not have the “Fullness” of the faith, that we have in the Catholic Church.
You can listen to Father at this link
https://www.catholic.com/audio/cal/8303
He discusses this at 40:02
Hope it helps.
God Bless
G
GKMotley
Guest
Though, on your last para, Anglicans will beg to differ. But then, selected Anglicans don’t answer to the term protestant. And selected Anglicans differ with other Anglicans, ubiquitously.
Yes, I’m well read on the sad and lengthy tale of Apostolicae Curae, from the first meeting of Viscount Halifax and the Abbe Portal in Madeira, in 1890, to the last echoes of the Malines Conversations in 1927. Very well read.
Yes, I’m well read on the sad and lengthy tale of Apostolicae Curae, from the first meeting of Viscount Halifax and the Abbe Portal in Madeira, in 1890, to the last echoes of the Malines Conversations in 1927. Very well read.
K
Kei
Guest
Hm, but that would imply the opposite is true, mathematically speaking.
However, simply because God is love, it does not mean that love is God.
However, simply because God is love, it does not mean that love is God.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I think we need to stop being so scared of coming out and saying we think Protestantism is “wrong”.
I respect the Jewish people and their tradition, but I still think they were wrong to reject Jesus Christ. No two ways about it. Wrong.
I respect many Protestants who are trying to live a good Christian life; I think some of them are actually doing a better job at that than some Catholics I know. But I still think they were wrong to walk away from the Catholic Church over whatever they originally left over. No two ways about it. Wrong.
I respect many Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc who I think are good people, doing good things, but I still think it is wrong that they don’t accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. No two ways about it. Wrong.
As John McLaughlin used to say every week, “Wrong!”
Respect doesn’t mean being wishy-washy. Wrong is wrong.
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MT1926
Guest
Tis,
You have read and liked many of my posts here on CAF. You know what I believe and how I never let anyone off the hook on their interpretation, without asking them to prove it. So I am sure you realize I am not saying give anyone a pass here. All I was trying to get across to the OP is, if he or she wants to have a constructive dialogue don’t start off by telling someone they are wrong. Pick a subject first. Maybe ask why is it wrong for Protestants to reject the Eucharist or something like that. Not saying you can’t use the word wrong. But to come right out and accuse someone of being wrong (which would mean about everything) isn’t constructive.
God Bless
C
commenter
Guest
The title of the thread is “why is Protestantism wrong”, not Protestants, as individuals. Individuals who affiliate with Protestant faith communities can and often do come to a higher level of sanctity and union with God than many Catholics. Catholicism, I believe, has the most complete measure of doctrinal truth through the Magisterium, but not the only means.
It is the individual’s response to the means available to them, and to the Spirit working directly in their own life, that is most crucial. But some means of guidance are more reliable than others. I think the Magisterium, in unity with Scripture and Tradition, is the most reliable, not the only reliable.
It is the individual’s response to the means available to them, and to the Spirit working directly in their own life, that is most crucial. But some means of guidance are more reliable than others. I think the Magisterium, in unity with Scripture and Tradition, is the most reliable, not the only reliable.
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omgriley
Guest
Not dismissive at all. God is “simple” kind of guy too: He wants you to know something, you learn it, and accept it. Simple as that.
I’m somehow not surprised by your vitriolic pessimism. After all, someone who likes to keep things simple (I.E., only believe what he finds easy to accept) isn’t very likely to know much about God or His Church.
I should really point out how sorry I am. It’s quite clear that something horrible happened to you in the past which made you so hateful of the Catholic Church. I pray that God will help you to eventually come to terms with whatever is keeping you from His Church.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
And as my aunt would say when some Protestant would say things like this, “Well, we have a new Pope now, so why don’t you come back?”
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