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Gorgias
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LOL! My point was that the opinion of the anonymous lawyer – the one you say you read about – ain’t worth even a penny toward a cup of coffee.Gorgias:
The hourly rate is $185 per hour.
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AlNg
Guest
Regardless of what you think, this Catholic marriage annulment service costs much more than one penny and for their services - people are willing to pay a retainer of $370 plus additional fees as they accrue.
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Gorgias
Guest
Given that many dioceses process annulments for free these days (and other retain their own cost structure), and those annulment services’ costs are above that, well… you know what they say about a fool and his money, eh?
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AlNg
Guest
There are all kinds of anecdotes floating around:
You only get what you pay for
You don’t get anything for nothing
Buy cheap, buy twice.
If you want quality, you have to expect to pay for it.
Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur.
Good work ain’t cheap. Cheap work ain’t good.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Another source that is not available for us to view. You must have an extensive library of obscure books!
You seem to be looking for sources to back up your theory instead of reading a reliable study and parsing out the numbers.
Of course, when something goes from socially scandalous, excommunicatible, and expensive to socially acceptable, forgivable and affordable or free, more people will divorce instead of just living separate lives.
You seem to be looking for sources to back up your theory instead of reading a reliable study and parsing out the numbers.
Of course, when something goes from socially scandalous, excommunicatible, and expensive to socially acceptable, forgivable and affordable or free, more people will divorce instead of just living separate lives.
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AlNg
Guest
Catholic almanac is available at many libraries.
LA Times is available online.
In one case I quoted the source that you yourself gave about annulments. Your source says that the increase in Catholic marriage annulments since 1968 has been astronomical. I am fine with the source you quoted.
But there are other books which are readily available:
1.What God has joined together: The annulment crisis in American Catholicism. by Robert H. Vasoli. Somewhat out of date, but still has a lot of statistics and scholarly detail.
2. A popular book describing how a woman fought to prevent the Catholic tribunal from annulling her marriage:
Shattered Faith: A Woman’s Struggle to Stop the Catholic Church from annulling her marriage by Sheila Rauch Kennedy.
The topic here is why is religion so complicated? There are those who find the Catholic annulment process to be complicated. In fact in her book, Mrs. Kennedy quotes her husband Joseph Kennedy as saying it is Catholic Gobbledygook. First Things journal had a report on this:
The use of the term Gobbledygook indicates, that at least some Catholics believe that the annulment process is a complicated one.
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Gorgias
Guest
And, as the CARA statistics show, that number has been falling consistently. It’s down to 21K applications in 2018. So, you’re using outdated statistics from 25 years ago, and in service of your inflated conclusions.
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AlNg
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I already said I was OK with the 21000 figure as it is still an astronomical increase from 1929 and even from 1968.
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EndTimes
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joecaro
Guest
Religion is a lot like buying a new car. A lot of the “complications” are the options you select. The Catholic church is pretty straight-forward; Follow the Word, obey the commandments and spend quality time at Mass.
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Petergee
Guest
To whom are you appealing? It is a well known fact of history that the tribunal which found St Joan of Arc guilty of “heresy” was an arm of the English secular State. As soon as the war was over a few years later, the Church commissioned an enquiry to officially establish the facts of the matter and it promptly found that Joan was innocent of the charge and the tribunal was a miscarriage of justice. “We” the Catholic Church did not make a mistake. The English State committed legalised murder and “we” condemned the act and exonerated Joan less than 10 years later; yet now 700 years later some people are still blaming the Church for her death!
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AlNg
Guest
Did Catholic Bishop Pierre Couchon, French bishop of Beauvais, preside over the trial of Joan of Arc? Did Bishop Couchon ask Joan of Arc to abjure her heresy?
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TheLittleLady
Guest
I had a feeling this book was the source or at least stepping off point. I pray for all people who have hurt.
The process to investigate a marriage to determine validity is important. Important things have complexities: arranging for elective surgery, filing your taxes, giving birth, civil divorce, buying a home, getting your tags renewed. Legal matters are complex, look at the debates we’ve had here about intellectual property and copyright law.
I have never claimed that a full case for nullity review is easy, nor do I recall anyone making that claim. One can be a Catholic for their entire life and never once have contact with the Tribunal. Filing for an investigation with the Tribunal is not essential to faith. Granted, sometimes people do not want the alternative, however, that is their own choice.
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Gorgias
Guest
Heresy was both civil crime and an ecclesiastical crime, in those days. The Church would judge the ecclesiastical question. However, it did not pass a sentence. If a person was judged guilty of heresy, then the civil authorities would take that judgment, declare a sentence, and execute that sentence.
So, the answer to your question is “Couchon presided over the trial, but the English authorities passed a sentence of death and then implemented it.”
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neophyte
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Relationships are complicated.
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EndTimes
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Petergee
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Couchon was an English patsy, and he didn’t “preside” over the trial. He was ONE of the judges, the others were all English laymen.
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AlNg
Guest
Pierre Cauchon , (born 1371, near Reims, Fr.—died Dec. 18, 1442, Rouen), French bishop of Beauvais, an ecclesiastic memorable chiefly because he presided over the [trial](Trial | law | Britannica) of Joan of Arc.
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Gorgias
Guest
Again, for the sake of making it clear that there’s a straw-man here: Cauchon presided over the ecclesiastical trial. The Church neither set the death penalty as the punishment nor meted it out. The civil authorities decided the sentence and carried it out. So… no: Cauchon did not condemn Joan to death. If one suggests otherwise, it would seem that they merely have an axe to grind with the Church.Petergee:
Pierre Cauchon , (born 1371, near Reims, Fr.—died Dec. 18, 1442, Rouen), French bishop of Beauvais, an ecclesiastic memorable chiefly **because he presided over the trial of Joan of Arc.
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AlNg
Guest
Would it have been possible for him to recommend leniency?
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