Why is religious life not a sacrament?

[lily628]

I am considering the sisterhood for my future. However, I struggle with the idea that religious life (ie. monks and nuns) is not a sacrament. I know that there are only seven sacraments, and that seven is God’s number. However, I don’t understand why this vocation couldn’t be included as part of the sacrament of Holy Orders or the sacrament of Matrimony.

I am not asking to be a female priest or anything like that, I just want to know why monks and nuns do not have the benefit of a sacrament for their vocation. If someone could give me something from Scripture and/or Church documents that explains this better, I would appreciate it very much.

God bless!

 

[headman13]

Since when is Holy Orders not one of the Seven Sacraments? Unless things have changed very badly for the worse, it still is. Blessings on you as you consider your vocation.

 

[philjane]

I agree with you—there should be a sacrament for women religious----I think in Jesus’ time it wasn’t an option–that is why 7 sacraments, otherwise there would have been 9, one for women who become sisters & one for men who become brothers-as well as the other 7

 

[lily628]

headman13:

Since when is Holy Orders not one of the Seven Sacraments?

Holy Orders is one of the 7 Sacraments. However, this sacrament is reserved only for males in the priesthood. Monks and nuns are not included in it. I would like to know what is the reasoning behind this. Why are monks and nuns denied the benefit of a sacrament in their religious vocation?

headman13:

Blessings on you as you consider your vocation.

Thank you! May God bless you also in whatever vocation He leads you to.

 

[otm]

OK, let’s drag out the Baltimore Catechism and dust it off.

A Sacrament is an outward sign, instituted by christ, to give grace.

It is not the only means of grace, but sacraments are the primary means of receiving grace. They fit around some of the most basic elements of human nature.

Baptism is the initiation into God’s family.

Reconcilliation is the means of healing broken relationships (I’m sorry. I forgive you).

Communion a sacred meal; we are fed physically and spiritually.

Confirmation; a contiuation of that initiation process, of strenthening that bond into God’s family.

Marriage. The root of family, and the means of continuing it.

Priesthood. The means of offering sacrifice to God, and the “go between” of humans and God (not for no reason the priest is called an “alter Christus”.

Sacrament of the sick. Healing, and preparation for death.

If you look at them that way, then the decision to live a consecrated life is not part of the flow of most human life, but stands in witness to life by stepping out of the pattern. It doesn’t fit as part of the pattern. It is a witness of stepping out.

God bless on your journey in following Him.

 

[Br.Dan_OCD]

Dear lily628,

I think the previous post gets to the basic point and that is that the Sacraments were instituted by Jesus and since “consecrated life” (at least in a form we can recognize) came along hundreds of years after Jesus.

Also, keep in mind that God is not bound by the Sacraments and there is still plenty of Grace to go around, especially to those of us who have publicly professed to follow the poor, chaste and obedient Christ.

My answer is really “off the cuff” as, to be honest, i’ve never even thought about this before! I’ll keep thinking…

 

[SMHW]

I think the simple answer is that Jesus did not institute or command his Apostles to administer such a sacrament. The seven sacraments all have a basis in scripture.

As for existing sacraments… Matrimony is not a possibility because it require two people, a man and a women, to confer on each other. Holy Orders is not permitted for women. If a monk receives Holy Orders (which is possible) then he becomes a deacon, priest, or bishop and is no longer a just a religious.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Now this is an interesting topic.

While there are seven sacraments I do not think that the Church as said that there are only seven sacraments.

Many in the Byzantine Church (both Catholic and Orthodox) believe that there can be more than seven.

In my RCIA (in the Latin Catholic Church) the priest talked about the Church being a sacrament.

I have heard discussion that the monastic consecration is beleiveed in the Eastern Church to be a sacrament. I have also heard discussion of the blessing of water at Easter time is a sacrament.

 

[St3746]

I think it has to do with the fact that priests are the ones who administer the other sacraments.

 

[lily628]

This post is for those who deny that nuns and monks are in the Bible.

It seems to me that Jesus instituted it. The apostles were the NT equivalent to the modern priests and bishops. Thus the eunuchs that Jesus refers to in this passage (in other translations rendered as eunuchs) must refer to something else, right?

Matthew 19 (NAB)
10 [His] disciples said to him, “If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” 11 He answered, “Not all can accept [this] word, 8 but only those to whom that is granted. 12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage 9 for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.”

Also, the “virgins” referred to in 1 Cor. 7:36-38 are thought by some to mean “consecrated virgins.”

36 13 14 If anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, and if a critical moment has come and so it has to be, let him do as he wishes. He is committing no sin; let them get married. 37 The one who stands firm in his resolve, however, who is not under compulsion but has power over his own will, and has made up his mind to keep his virgin, will be doing well. 38 So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry her will do better.

Additionally, the following passage describes a woman whose life resembles that of a nun:

Luke 2 (NAB)
36 There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived seven years with her husband after her marriage,
37 and then as a widow until she was eighty-four. She never left the temple, but worshiped night and day with fasting and prayer.

This implies that the concept of a vow of consecration existed before Jesus came. Many believe that Mary was a consecrated virgin, as I showed above from 1 Cor. 7. Why else would she say, “How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?” (Luke 1:34). She was engaged to marry Joseph, so she would otherwise have planned on future relations with him, thus making a future pregnancy not so unlikely. But her questioning the angel about a future pregnancy implies that she planned to remain a perpetual virgin. And in fact, the Eastern Orthodox Church has a feast day in honor of the day when Mary became a consecrated virgin. This vocation was a part of Jewish tradition, and still remains as a part of Catholic tradition as well.

Continued in my next post…

 

[lily628]

A similar thing is found in the Old Testament in the form of the Nazarite vow (see Num. 6).

Paul describes to Timothy (1 Tim. 5 NAB) what sounds like a religious order of women who were widowed.

9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years old, married only once,

10 with a reputation for good works, namely, that she has raised children, practiced hospitality, washed the feet of the holy ones, helped those in distress, involved herself in every good work. 11 But exclude younger widows, for when their sensuality estranges them from Christ, they want to marry 12 and will incur condemnation for breaking their first pledge. Who does the parable of the ten virgins refer to (Mt. 25)? How about the male virgins in Rev 14:4, who are they?

The Greek word “Diakonos,” translated minister, servant, or deacon, is used to describe a woman here:

Romans 16:1 (NAB)

1 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is (also) a minister of the church at Cenchreae, 2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the holy ones, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a benefactor to many and to me as well. Note that she is also called “sister.” As the Catholic Church does not permit female deacons, we must provide some other explanation for this word. I believe it refers to Phoebe as a nun.

 

[lily628]

Now, back to my original question. Can anyone tell me why religious life is not a sacrament?

Thanks!

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I would say that, even though there were various consecrated states in the Scriptures, Christ still did not make any of them sacraments. A sacrament is an outward sign of *God’s *action. God forgives sin, turns bread into flesh, bestows his Spirit, etc. through human action. Marriage is a promise between two people, but Christ told us that God actually joins them, so we know it is also an action by God. We don’t have that testimony in either Scripture or Tradition that a divine action of this nature takes place in the profession of religious vows. We only know of the vow itself, which is an act of the person, not of God. While I’m sure religious men and women receive special graces in order to fulfill their vows, the Church can only profess as sacrament those seven which were given to her in Divine Revelation.

 

[lily628]

Here are the Seven Sacraments:

These I can see directly mentioned by Jesus:

1. Baptism (Matthew 28:18-20)
2. Communion (John 6)
3. Marriage (Matthew 19)
4. Reconciliation (John 20:21-23)
   ? 5. Holy Orders (When Jesus gives authority to the apostles? Does he ever mention Holy Orders as in the priesthood directly?)

These I can see mentioned elsewhere, seemingly equivalent to the mention of religious life that I gave in other posts above:
? 5. Holy Orders (Hebrews; Paul’s writings about apostleship)
6. Annointing of the sick (James 5) (Jesus also seemed to himself denounce it - “Let the dead bury their dead” in Mt. 8:22, Lk. 9:60. I don’t believe he did, but it could arguably be read that way.)

This I do not see mentioned at all in the Bible. Any help here?
7. Penance (Don’t get me wrong, I love the Sacrament of Penance as I have gained much grace to overcome sin through it)

God bless, and thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

lily628:

Here are the Seven Sacraments:

These I can see directly mentioned by Jesus:

1. Baptism (Matthew 28:18-20)
2. Communion (John 6)
3. Marriage (Matthew 19)
4. Reconciliation (John 20:21-23)
   ? 5. Holy Orders (When Jesus gives authority to the apostles? Does he ever mention Holy Orders as in the priesthood directly?)

These I can see mentioned elsewhere, seemingly equivalent to the mention of religious life that I gave in other posts above:
? 5. Holy Orders (Hebrews; Paul’s writings about apostleship)
6. Annointing of the sick (James 5) (Jesus also seemed to himself denounce it - “Let the dead bury their dead” in Mt. 8:22, Lk. 9:60. I don’t believe he did, but it could arguably be read that way.)

This I do not see mentioned at all in the Bible. Any help here?
7. Penance (Don’t get me wrong, I love the Sacrament of Penance as I have gained much grace to overcome sin through it)

God bless, and thanks everyone for your help!

You have Penance already in Reconciliation. They are different names for the same sacrament.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Joe Kelley:

You have Penance already in Reconciliation. They are different names for the same sacrament.

I also didn’t see Confirmation. in the list.

 

[lily628]

Oh ok, thanks for the correction! I am new at this, so forgive me for my error. I did not realize that penance and reconciliation are part of the same sacrament.

In that case, where is confirmation in the Bible? I can see it implied in verses such as Romans 10 (NAB) :

9 for, if you confess 5 with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

Does anyone know where Jesus instituted it? Thanks

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Re Confirmation See

John 20:22

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

This seems to combine Confirmation and Holy Orders.

Acts 8:12-17

but once they began to believe Philip as he preached the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, men and women alike were baptized. Even Simon himself believed and, after being baptized, became devoted to Philip; and when he saw the signs and mighty deeds that were occurring, he was astounded. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit.

Note that the deacon Philip baptized them but had to call apostles [bishops] to Confirm [bring the Holy Spirit].

 

[lily628]

Thanks Joe! I think that makes sense. Now all I need is the reference where Jesus establishes the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick. Perhaps when He heals people?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Re Anointing of Sick - See:

Mark 6:8-13

He instructed them to take nothing for the journey but a walking stick–no food, no sack, no money in their belts. They were, however, to wear sandals but not a second tunic.
He said to them, “Wherever you enter a house, stay there until you leave from there. Whatever place does not welcome you or listen to you, leave there and shake the dust off your feet in testimony against them.” So they went off and preached repentance. They drove out many demons, and they anointed with oil many who were sick and cured them.

and

James 5:14-15

Is anyone among you sick? 6 He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.