Why is strictness or judgment frowned upon?

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MargaretofCortona

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A post I read about attire at church. What’s wrong with thinking people should dress appropriately to church? I went to a church meeting with other young adults and this girl was arguing what we wear before God is not important. I agree to an extent. Can’t people stop acting like immodesty is the only a sin for the person who lusts? I’m not attracted to women but a very large breasted woman with a low cut blouse walked into mass my eyes would travel to her chest.
A girl was arguing it wasn’t a big deal to wear booty shorts to church. C’mon a line has to be drawn somewhere. Surely we shouldn’t judge nor should people show up to church with their butt cheeks showing. People are going to argue the judgmental person is worse and if we’re truly attentive in Mass she would be of no distraction.
 
Because nowadays God needs to take a backseat to the real gods of ourselves.
 
Priest and extraordinary ministers notice if people aren’t dressed modestly.

There are some Churches that won’t let people in if they aren’t dressed appropriately.

But I was at a cathedral once where it was 104 degrees and no air conditioning. So I’m bringing my water bottle and wearing shorts, but not John Stockton shorts.

I wouldn’t judge people, because sometimes people dress certain ways for medical reasons. And you know the one time you open your mouth, the person will have a surprisingly legitimate reason.

I think the priest should mention modest dressing as a personal reflection in the homily from time to time.
 
I think it’s often a confusion.

It’s generally a bad idea to impose standards beyond what is prescribed by God or imposed by the church, unless one is in a special position to do it, knows the full circumstances, and has a serious reason. So that’s why many of us said you shouldn’t worry about how nicely someone’s dressed - you don’t know what’s going on, and there’s no particular standard that says “you have to wear X level of formality to mass.”

On the other hand, modesty is prescribed by God, although there isn’t a specific universal standard. But I would say in the U.S. booty shorts are pretty universally considered immodest.
 
I agree that one should never judge another individual. I very strongly disagree with the idea that modesty is culturally subjective and thankfully the Popes and Church have affirmed with magisterial authority that it is not culturally subjective and there is indeed a universal standard.
 
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Honestly, I think some people have been judged so harshly and cut so deeply that they go off the deep end when suggesting what should be allowed.

As someone who was told that I couldn’t enter a TLM Low Mass because I was a woman in pants, it really burned. That is NOT church teaching. No shape, no how.

I really don’t like skirts for a myriad of reasons…but those men who refused my entrance into Mass hurt me in a way that stuck with me for a while, and made me, even someone who isn’t rebellious, into someone who WANTED to rebel.

So, in some sense, I can totally get why someone feels that they are “allowed” to be immodest. They want God to accept them, despite the most dramatic thing that they can think of wearing. At it’s heart, the need to dress immodestly at Mass is the same as the “need” to dress immodestly anywhere–a cry for attention.

We can do much good by asking what these clothes do for them, rather than why they feel it is appropriate or telling them it’s not appropriate and drawing that line. Often, when people examine themselves, they see the point.
 
Apparently to her, booty shorts are acceptable and the rest of us should mind our business. Fair enough. A young fit pretty woman in booty shorts is a distraction anywhere
 
I don’t agree, but I do understand the mentality. Mostly because I’ve dealt with men who a young fit woman in just about anything is a distraction. And then gotten chastised for it.
 
It is difficult to decide who is more at fault in such cases.
 
Dressing is personal after all. People are sensitive about it. I reached a point where I chose to change my dress in Mass. If someone had suggested it before I would not have taken that well at all. My response would have been - it doesn’t matter, you are being superficial, judgmental. It is between God and me. And I would have meant it. Now I believe otherwise. Knowing how hard I would have taken it, I don’t want to put someone in that situation. It is not that big of a deal. But I agree a lot of times it is ignorance - perhaps explaining WHY modest dress is Christian - making it a general topic, not aimed at a particular person would be better. And we need to distinguish dressing up from dressing modestly. Two different things. I am always trying to emulate the early Church for better or worse. Modest dress has been around forever as the norm for women in Church. And I think it was probably dress, skirts, head coverings…until the 20th century. I don’t see what is so triumphant in rejecting that. I don’t feel the need to break new ground there.

I remember once a nun in Rome snapped at me to put my sweater on (tank top) - no shoulders out. I did it - and you know I don’t think I ever had exposed shoulders in Church after that. That was about 7 years ago. It made an impact on me. A postive one.
 
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I think it’s a very personal experience when it comes to modesty. My experience had a lot of “it’s never enough” - the sense that I would be considered immodest in pretty much anything short of a burka. Not because of my manner of dress, necessarily, but because I’m a naturally curvy women and many men are drawn to that. My sisters who have a different body type tend to be seen as modest more easily, whereas I can cover myself completely and still be seen as immodest.
 
I think a lot of people at least to need to THINK about how they dress. Sounds to me like you’re doing that, and more than anyone else I can think of. I’m probably preaching to the choir if I said scandal on many levels is a problem that is just ignored.

Also, we need to be very careful about blaming the woman.
 
Wait, did I actually just agree with you on something? I think that might be a minor miracle.
 
I wonder what the men in the church group would have responded if there hadn’t been women present. For better or worse, I picture men as walking around with strange glasses that augment every bit of sexuality a woman displays. They just don’t see what we women see. As a woman, you said you’d be distracted by a large breasted woman. Multiply that by about ten for the men in the room. I think they picture having sex with her on some wind swept mountain in kaleidoscope visions.

As a young woman, I had no understanding of how men really see women, and it’s nothing like how women see men.

So the young women need to gain instruction so they dress modestly. There’s never a reason to show cleavage or shoulders in church. Shorts are inappropriate.
 
Lara said:
As a young woman, I had no understanding of how men really see women, and it’s nothing like how women see men.
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I think it’s more what we’re saying is it cuts both ways. It’s not like I went to a surgeon and decided on my cup size. I can cover my breasts, but there isn’t a whole lot I can do to not make them look fairly obvious unless I wear a binder or an ultra-tight sports bra all the time, or if I drape scarves over all my shirts or something. I know some men may be distracted by my body even if I’m fully covered (and a lot of secular ones will freely say so) - and I know that some of those men will turn it on me for being “a distraction” to them. Or women will. It gets a little tiring.
 
That’s a tough spot to be in. I’m fairly average looking, but I always wonder how really pretty women get through life at all with all these men falling at their feet.

I know what you mean though. Things can go to an extreme, and we can’t cover ourselves in a potato sack. That’s why I think of modesty as no cleavage showing, or bare shoulders, upper thighs and belly.
 
I really hope men don’t think in such of way about women. What the hell? We live in two different universes I supposed then.
 
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