Why is suicide a sin?

[bri89]

The bible records several suicides including Saul, Saul’s armor bearer, Samson, Judas, and a few others whose names escape me. The methods were hangings, falling on one’s sword, self-immolation, and the like. Nowhere in the biblical text is a particular suicide or suicide itself explicitly condemned, the evil of it has been inferred from the commandment “thou shalt not kill”. This seems a pretty dubious basis and bad logic. Despite the lack of biblical grounds for condemning the act, certain theologians have referred to it as the Ultimate sin, or the only irredeemable sin since executing the act renders repentance impossible. In Europe during the middle ages, suicides were buried at the crossroads with a stake through their heart as though they were guilty of cannibalism or something too unconscionable to be believed. In view of the lack of biblical evidence, where did the church get the idea that it is one of the greatest of evils?

I don’t think it’s heroic or contemptible. There are times when when the miseries of life exceed the bearing capacity of the individual. This leads to madness or suicide. It can be argued that it is moral cowardice, though it is quite obviously not physical cowardice. I also think those who desperately cling to life don’t have the right to accuse the suicide of cowardice. It’s tragic but there are much worse “sins” that are placed on a lower par. Respectfully, I can not fathom how it is maligned. The ancients did not consider it craven, sometimes it was even regarded as noble and manly, a matter of knowing when to exit. Why do we have to wait until the last breath is sucked out of us?

 

[bri89]

Also, about the argument of playing God in regards to suicide, we equally assume that role when we artificially extend life. It can be argued that medicine interferes with God’s appointed time for our death.

 

[Burdensome1]

I don’t think it’s heroic or contemptible. There are times when when the miseries of life exceed the bearing capacity of the individual.

Catholics disagree.

This leads to madness or suicide.

Reason circularly much?

It can be argued that it is moral cowardice, though it is quite obviously not physical cowardice.

I can argue that. Suicide is painless, says the song.

I also think those who desperately cling to life don’t have the right to accuse the suicide of cowardice. It’s tragic but there are much worse “sins” that are placed on a lower par.

Like smoking I suppose? It’s so wonderful how everyone has opinions, but in the end yours means pretty much nothing, theologically speaking.

Respectfully, I can not fathom how it is maligned.

It is murder of a human being. I can fathom that pretty easily.

The ancients did not consider it craven, sometimes it was even regarded as noble and manly, a matter of knowing when to exit.

Right, let’s throw an infant into the fire, I heard people used to do that too. Reason speciously much?

Why do we have to wait until the last breath is sucked out of us?

You don’t. Catholics do. If you ultimately decide you are the boss and your reasoning is superior to the Church, you can off yourself and take the chance.

Also, about the argument of playing God in regards to suicide, we equally assume that role when we artificially extend life. It can be argued that medicine interferes with God’s appointed time for our death.

You can certainly argue that. The Church says no. If you feel very strongly about it, refuse your next indicated medical procedure and see how it goes. I follow the Church, that’s my choice.

 

[bri89]

Catholics disagree.

Reason circularly much?

I can argue that. Suicide is painless, says the song.

Like smoking I suppose? It’s so wonderful how everyone has opinions, but in the end yours means pretty much nothing, theologically speaking.

It is murder of a human being. I can fathom that pretty easily.

Right, let’s throw an infant into the fire, I heard people used to do that too. Reason speciously much?

You don’t. Catholics do. If you ultimately decide you are the boss and your reasoning is superior to the Church, you can off yourself and take the chance.

You can certainly argue that. The Church says no. If you feel very strongly about it, refuse your next indicated medical procedure and see how it goes. I follow the Church, that’s my choice.

Wow, you’re a bit mean-spirited. I was trying to be respectful, maybe I failed. I’m sorry. I just don’t understand how it is a sin, I don’t hate the catholic church.

 

[bri89]

Wow, you’re a bit mean-spirited. I was trying to be respectful, maybe I failed. I’m sorry. I just don’t understand how it is a sin, not because I hate the catholic church.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

It’s murder.

 

[ffg]

It’s a sin because the action to eliminate life is specifically named in the 10 commandments.

I think the key to your question is in the suffering though.

Once you understand that suffering is not a ‘bad’ thing, you’ll be able to conquer the fear of it. Then also beat the tricks the mind (Satan?) plays when making you think that the least painful thing to do is kill.

Look at the Cross - if suffering was a ‘bad’ thing, Jesus would not have died the way he did, there would have been no purpose. That example of suffering is to help us see that we can handle all that we have in front of us.

Suffering is a blessing in disguise… The least shall be first.

 

[bri89]

It’s murder.

Yes, but is killing the self morally the same as killing another? Is voluntay death the same as robbing someone of their life? Is damaging your own property the same as damaging someone else’s?. If I believe that I have the authority to extend my own life, irrespective of God’s plan, then by the same logic, don’t I have the same authority to hasten my death. Why is one more presumptuous than another?

 

[Burdensome1]

Why are you asking questions of Catholics that you already know you will disagree with the answers to?

Is it murder? Yes. Is it wrong? Yes.

Are you looking for some sort of scientific proof? Moral questions often do not have those sorts of answers. There’s no laboratory test that proves suicide is sinful. Catholics abide by the Will of God as best they know it through revelation. If someone does not wish to follow this, then they’re not going to like the rules.

 

[po18guy]

No better source on earth than the catechism:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.

 

[bzkoss236]

Yes, but is killing the self morally the same as killing another? Is voluntay death the same as robbing someone of their life? Is damaging your own property the same as damaging someone else’s?. If I believe that I have the authority to extend my own life, irrespective of God’s plan, then by the same logic, don’t I have the same authority to hasten my death. Why is one more presumptuous than another?

In suicide, you are robbing yourself of the gift of life that God has given you. Effectively telling God that you don’t want His gift.

Also note, the Catholic Church realizes that there are circumstances in which one’s own will is weakened or overruled by such things as mental illness (depression, schizophrenia, etc.) or coercion by another. In these instances, the Church recognizes that while still a sin, the person committing the act has less culpability for their actions. So, suicide doesn’t necessarily condemn one to Hell. Those who have committed suicide are left to the mercy of God.

 

[bri89]

Why are you asking questions of Catholics that you already know you will disagree with the answers to?

Is it murder? Yes. Is it wrong? Yes.

Are you looking for some sort of scientific proof? Moral questions often do not have those sorts of answers. There’s no laboratory test that proves suicide is sinful. Catholics abide by the Will of God as best they know it through revelation. If someone does not wish to follow this, then they’re not going to like the rules.

I don’t know that everyone disagrees, I am looking for a deeper and more satisfying explanation than the ones I was taught because I am very interested in the topic.

 

[bzkoss236]

I don’t know that everyone disagrees, I am looking for a deeper and more satisfying explanation than the ones I was taught because I am very interested in the topic.

Why, are you considering suicide? Or someone you know?

 

[bri89]

I find this part of the catechism interesting, “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide”. To me, this suggests there exists gray area, and the historical attitude may be incorrect. Where the bible lacks explicit clarification, the catholic church has compensated with it’s own philosopical arguments. I suppose I am looking for philosophical arguments mostly because I find the arguments posited by David Hume and Robert Ingersoll more compelling.

 

[bri89]

Why, are you considering suicide? Or someone you know?

I’ve known a few suicides. I’m not at present, but should some grave illness beset me later in life, or something fateful that I can’t foresee now, I would avail myself of the option. I just think there should be a rethinking of suicide. The ancients may have been wrong about many things, but often right too, and they did not think it ignoble to end your own life. Demothenes, Aristotle, Sappho, and some others induced their own deaths and not always from moral cowardice. The Japanese don’t consider it craven, and sometimes even the honorable thing to do.

 

[po18guy]

Where the bible lacks explicit clarification, the catholic church has compensated with it’s own philosopical arguments.

Not “compensated”, but completed. And it is not a mere man-made philosophical argument, but revealed truth for those who hold to the Catholic faith.

 

[po18guy]

I’ve known a few suicides. I’m not at present, but should some grave illness beset me later in life, or something fateful that I can’t foresee now, I would avail myself of the option. I just think there should be a rethinking of suicide. The ancients may have been wrong about many things, but often right too, and they did not think it ignoble to end your own life. Demothenes, Aristotle, Sappho, and some others induced their own deaths and not always from moral cowardice. The Japanese don’t consider it craven, and sometimes even the honorable thing to do.

I do not believe that you understand the redemptive value of suffering. Since you did not give life to yourself, why should you assume authority over it at any point?

 

[pig]

I’ve known a few suicides. I’m not at present, but should some grave illness beset me later in life, or something fateful that I can’t foresee now, I would avail myself of the option. I just think there should be a rethinking of suicide. The ancients may have been wrong about many things, but often right too, and they did not think it ignoble to end your own life. Demothenes, Aristotle, Sappho, and some others induced their own deaths and not always from moral cowardice. The Japanese don’t consider it craven, and sometimes even the honorable thing to do.

suicide is to be discouraged, many times now suicides are treated as almost normal at funerals. It is a responsibility of society to discourage seriously the possibility, life always changes, constantly, in ways unforeseen. But to give an example to another you must bear some of the responsibility of their death.

 

[bri89]

I do not believe that you understand the redemptive value of suffering. Since you did not give life to yourself, why should you assume authority over it at any point?

Yes, I don’t think suffering is ennobling, since both virtuous and villainous people suffer, also suffering can be as corrosive and spirit-crushing as it may be redemptive. It is just an inescapable reality. For me, assuming authority over my life is the self evident thing. Perhaps there is a God who has a calling for me, but I am not waiting around for some inspirational moment where it becomes clear to me, and perhaps I am unwittingly violating his plan for my life by seeking out my own vocation and trying to situate myself where I think is best. Isn’t that what everyone does? Similarly I am not going to wait around for my appointed time to die if such a thing exists, I am going to assume the authority of hastening my death if I find the nerve to do so.

 

[po18guy]

Yes, I don’t think suffering is ennobling, since both virtuous and villainous people suffer, also suffering can be as corrosive and spirit-crushing as it may be redemptive. It is just an inescapable reality. For me, assuming authority over my life is the self evident thing. Perhaps there is a God who has a calling for me, but I am not waiting around for some inspirational moment where it becomes clear to me, and perhaps I am unwittingly violating his plan for my life by seeking out my own vocation and trying to situate myself where I think is best. Isn’t that what everyone does? Similarly I am not going to wait around for my appointed time to die if such a thing exists, I am going to assume the authority of hastening my death if I find the nerve to do so.

Since suffering is universal, why would you choose to avoid it? Do you not have - have you not been given the strength to endure all that has come your way?