Why Is Suicide Considered Wrong?

[Christy_Beth]

It could have been that I’m just overly sensitive about this. Which I am. It bothers me when others seem to think that it’s no different than someone making a plan and putting it into practice. Yes, despair is there. But I don’t think it’s necessarily despair of God’s redeeming love. When you have a mental illness from an early age, it keeps you from forming a realistic idea about God. You think you don’t deserve His care and compassion. At least, I that’s the way I felt for far too long. I still sometimes struggle with that. How can God care about my miserable little life?

We can only know God’s love when it’s expressed through others. My only question is, why can’t that be shown more often? Those who most repel us are usually the ones who need it the most. I know that’s hard. I have to keep reminding myself to do that too. It’s so much easier to love from a distance. But we are all entwined as the body of Christ.

 

[MumboJumbo]

Wait. Suicide is wrong because rich people wanted to oppress poor people? That makes no sense. The death of a human being is always a tragedy, regardless of social or economic class.

The laws against suicide and the theory that people will go to hell if they kill themselves might have been created to prevent the poor from taking their own lives to escape the prison of poverty that they are in and have no control over. If suicide became an escape from slavery or poverty without consequences from the great beyond, this world might not have all the problems that it currently has, such as overpopulation and famine.

This is just a theory, of course!

 

[MumboJumbo]

The lines in the movie “It’s a Wonderful Life” where the angels in heaven are first discussing George Bailey’s predicament always struck me as the most profound way to describe the enormity of suicide:

Superior angel: “At exactly 10.35 Bedford Falls Time, that man is going to consider throwing away God’s greatest gift to him: his life.”

I’m also minded of a story told by one of the Jewish women whom Oskar Schindler rescued from the death camps: she and several dozen others had been “accidentally” routed to Auschwitz and one of the women was about to suicide by throwing herself into an electrified barbed-wire fence. Three other women stopped her and begged her not to do this because, one of them told her, “You won’t know what could have happened to you.” Three days after this, Schindler came to Auschwitz to find out what had happened to them and was able to reason with the camp officials and have the women released into his care…

I’ve been suicidal. I’ve stood on the edge of a culvert over a fast-moving stream and contemplated throwing myself in to end the pain that was eating at me. The only thing that stopped me was the thought that I would be disappointing my family and the realization that I was throwing away the life that God gave me. I still have some amount of pain, but I’m glad I chose to live instead.

The Church stopped the practice of not burying suicides in Catholic cemeteries and of not offering Masses for them: they realized that, of all the people who need the grace of a burial Mass, it is someone who took their life. They recognize now that suicide is really a cry for help and the most searing cry of an anguished soul, not some willful gesture.

It is interesting that you mention the holocaust because I’ve also heard stories of how the Jews were taken off the trains with very little supervision. Prisioners in the camps yelled at the Jews to run away but they didn’t. I’ve have sometimes thought about this and felt that possible they resigned themselves to their fate. They simply gave up all hope.

 

[Timothy_Capps]

“To be, or not to be, that is the question.” Hamlet thought suicide would be an easy out from putting up with th insolence of office, bearing fardles and all that (whatever fardles are). It would be, that is, except for what might come after. Shakespeare was likely a Catholic.

As an aside, overpopulation is not a problem. Western democracies with the exception of the U.S. are not even producing children at replacement level. Overpopulation was a bill of goods that was sold to us boomers. Ever wonder why there are so many Moslem immigrants in places like Denmark? There are not enough workers to support European social welfare states, so they are importing labor.

 

[CWBetts]

The laws against suicide and the theory that people will go to hell if they kill themselves might have been created to prevent the poor from taking their own lives to escape the prison of poverty that they are in and have no control over. If suicide became an escape from slavery or poverty without consequences from the great beyond, this world might not have all the problems that it currently has, such as overpopulation and famine.

This is just a theory, of course!

This is ludicrous. Of you do some cursory research you will see that suicide rates are highest among the wealthy. Your hypothesis has no merit whatsoever.

 

[MumboJumbo]

“To be, or not to be, that is the question.” Hamlet thought suicide would be an easy out from putting up with th insolence of office, bearing fardles and all that (whatever fardles are). It would be, that is, except for what might come after. Shakespeare was likely a Catholic.

As an aside, overpopulation is not a problem. Western democracies with the exception of the U.S. are not even producing children at replacement level. Overpopulation was a bill of goods that was sold to us boomers. Ever wonder why there are so many Moslem immigrants in places like Denmark? There are not enough workers to support European social welfare states, so they are importing labor.

Overpopulation is a fact. More than 50% of the world’s population live on less than 2 dollars a day.

When you speak of replacement population, what exactly are you considering. The baby boomers of the US was a spike in the population of the United States not the norm. Many reseachers have said the the US could have had a self sufficient population at 200 million but that was surpassed just after WW2.

The world doesn’t need more people to drain the finite resources of the earth.

 

[st_lucy]

Overpopulation is a fact. More than 50% of the world’s population live on less than 2 dollars a day.

When you speak of replacement population, what exactly are you considering. The baby boomers of the US was a spike in the population of the United States not the norm. Many reseachers have said the the US could have had a self sufficient population at 200 million but that was surpassed just after WW2.

The world doesn’t need more people to drain the finite resources of the earth.

So now we get down to your real point. Over population.

Do you know that there is plenty of food to feed the world, but greedy people would rather horde the food of money for themselves. Think of what you ate for dinner last night, how much of that supper did you throw out after you were done?

Your idea of suicide is sick and disgusting. And then to blame the church on top of that. I often wonder if those who push this idea of suicide if they would ever step up to the plate to help “over population”? Oh there is not an over population problem there IS however an over greedy amount of people in the higher ups who will not share.

 

[Timothy_Capps]

Replacement rate is 2 kids per couple. Europe falls below this. Russia is even worse. Americans are holding up their end, barely, because most Americans don’t buy the overpopulation myth. If most of the world is living in poverty, it isn’t because there is not enough to go around, or even because rich people are hoarding it all. This is getting far afield of suicide, unless you are advocating it as a solution to overpopulation.

 

[wjp984]

Suicide is wrong since it is saying one of two things: 1) There is no God and therefore one rather would not exist. If this be the case then this person has chosen eternal separation from God. 2) For believers it is selfishly saying that they want instant gratification in Heaven immediataly and don’t care about anything dealing with God’s plan. If there is a Purgatory, which would probably be the best these people can hope for, whatever suffering they were experiencing on Earth will probably be amplified tremendously in whatever Purgatory there is.

1. For most cases the person is mentally incompetant at the time and therefore there are mitigating circumstances. We can only trust in God’s mercy.

 

[StrawberryJam]

moral laws were not “passed” by some earthly authority, moral law is built into to creation by the Creator. He sets the laws when he determines the nature of those to whom the law applies. He set the planets in motion and placed the stars in the heavens, so he made the laws that govern the heavens, the universe, time, matter, energy. The US congress cannot overturn the laws of gravity or behavior of gases.

God created all life, including human life, and only He can set the term for that life. Suicide is wrong because it places the will of the individual above God’s will, which is the supreme sin, that against the first commandment, where the human claims for himself the privileges and rights that belong to God alone.

no, the Catholic Church does not refuse to bury suicides or bar them from a Catholic funeral. She understands that most often that choice is not made with full free will and knowledge, because the person is prevented by their very pain and suffering, mental or physical, from making full free consent of the will to the act.

at what time frame did “the Catholic Church” arrive at this conclusion?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Suicide is wrong since it is saying one of two things: 1) There is no God and therefore one rather would not exist. If this be the case then this person has chosen eternal separation from God. 2) For believers it is selfishly saying that they want instant gratification in Heaven immediataly and don’t care about anything dealing with God’s plan. If there is a Purgatory, which would probably be the best these people can hope for, whatever suffering they were experiencing on Earth will probably be amplified tremendously in whatever Purgatory there is.

1. For most cases the person is mentally incompetant at the time and therefore there are mitigating circumstances. We can only trust in God’s mercy.

Keep believing what you read. Don’t ever ponder what they did in the past, for years and years on this very topic. Dont trouble your head over it.

 

[Flopfoot]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. the Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Everything you need to know has been said here.

Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Take a close look at 2282 again.

Then tell me why on your God’s green earth, did the Catholic Church treat ALL suicides as “scandals” and refused the rite of burial to them for so many many years?

 

[Flopfoot]

That post was a reply to the OP, not to you, sorry. You “sarnathed” me (posted while I was posting).

I’m not sure why the Church acted that way (I didn’t even know this was the case in the past). It might have been because they didn’t know which would be taken as scandals and which wouldn’t, or it might be for some other reason. People in the Church don’t always do what’s right (the imperfection of individuals) and although we teach the truth we are also always coming to a deeper understanding (and usually better implementation in a modern world) of that truth. With greater understanding we are changing the way we deal with things like suicide.

 

[StrawberryJam]

That post was a reply to the OP, not to you, sorry. You “sarnathed” me (posted while I was posting).

I’m not sure why the Church acted that way (I didn’t even know this was the case in the past). It might have been because they didn’t know which would be taken as scandals and which wouldn’t, or it might be for some other reason. People in the Church don’t always do what’s right (the imperfection of individuals) and although we teach the truth we are also always coming to a deeper understanding (and usually better implementation in a modern world) of that truth. With greater understanding we are changing the way we deal with things like suicide.

Deeper understanding of pain? Who better to teach it than the Catholic Church?
Yet at the same time send the signal it must be a certain kind of pain… even though they are leading us and all humankind from the point of the resurrection onward, to a full understanding of truth? I mean no disrespect, but you have to be kidding me right?

 

[wi11ow]

The idea that suicide is wrong because it is a rejection of gods gift of life is a flawed concept.

If god is the only one to give or take life, then the use of medical means to prolong life or ease suffering in medical illness is also a frustration of gods will. The use of anasthetics or morphine becomes immoral because we are meant to suffer. The use of modern medicine to prolong the life of a cancer patient becomes immoral because they were meant to die. We deem the preservation of human life as a worthy goal while its loss offends us, but this says nothing about the morality of the action.

The philosopher Locke argued that in commiting suicide you are commiting an act of free will and excersizing yet another of gods gifts “free will” to the fullest capacity.

Not everyone that commits suicide is by definition mentally ill or desturbed, this is an over simplification that allows people to write off suicide as an action of “unsound mind” that a logical or rational person would not make if they were in control of there faculties. This is not true and any ammount of testimonials from people who have survived attempts and recanted the desire wont make it so either. The number of people who go on to make second or third attempts to end there life despite intervention should attest to this.

The claim that we owe a duty to our creator by virtue of being created is also flawed.

As children we are not burdened with carrying out the desires of our parents because they are our creators, nor do they retain there guardianship or control of us for the entierty of our lives. We are not slaves to be ordered about, but are instead in receivership of a gift which we can do with however so we deem fit.

 

[Christy_Beth]

Can I make a comment about the “mental defect” part? I am mentally ill, but that doesn’t mean that I’m “mentally unsound,” or however you prefer to put it. Yes, depression and all can be attrubuted to a chemical imbalance in the brain. But that doesn’t mean that it has total control of my life. There are some mental illnesses that are very, well, life consuming. Like Schizophrenia. Without medication someone with that diagnosis will often act out. I think everyone knows at least something about that illness. It can be controlled with meds, but there are times when one may decide that since they feel better, they are better, so they stop taking their medication. Which often has sad outcomes.

For years I thought that I was “defective.” But I now struggle with the thought that I’m not, but I still feel that way. I guess it could be called lack of self confidence. I fear failure, and even when something comes out good, I see no good that I have done. I can only see the part I did, a weak effort. Despite being told repeatedly that I’m no dummy, I find it all but impossible to believe that. And it isn’t all due to my mental illness. Part of my current frame of mind is that I’ve been on disability for my mental illness for so many years that I don’t see how I could possibly suceed at anything.

But, in January I start taking college classes with the intent of getting a Bachelor’s degree in “legal studies.” Basically to become a paralegal or legal assistant. As dumb as that may sound, I know i can do it. But .looking at the number of classes I need to take is hard to take. Again, I fear failure.

Sorry for going off on a personal bit there. But I’m just trying to say that when mental illness is referred to, don’t think the person is beyond redemption. Even if they do attempt suicide. And if they succeed at it, the more we should pray for their souls.

 

[CWBetts]

The idea that suicide is wrong because it is a rejection of gods gift of life is a flawed concept.

If god is the only one to give or take life, then the use of medical means to prolong life or ease suffering in medical illness is also a frustration of gods will. The use of anasthetics or morphine becomes immoral because we are meant to suffer. The use of modern medicine to prolong the life of a cancer patient becomes immoral because they were meant to die. We deem the preservation of human life as a worthy goal while its loss offends us, but this says nothing about the morality of the action.

The philosopher Locke argued that in commiting suicide you are commiting an act of free will and excersizing yet another of gods gifts “free will” to the fullest capacity.

Not everyone that commits suicide is by definition mentally ill or desturbed, this is an over simplification that allows people to write off suicide as an action of “unsound mind” that a logical or rational person would not make if they were in control of there faculties. This is not true and any ammount of testimonials from people who have survived attempts and recanted the desire wont make it so either. The number of people who go on to make second or third attempts to end there life despite intervention should attest to this.

The claim that we owe a duty to our creator by virtue of being created is also flawed.

As children we are not burdened with carrying out the desires of our parents because they are our creators, nor do they retain there guardianship or control of us for the entierty of our lives. We are not slaves to be ordered about, but are instead in receivership of a gift which we can do with however so we deem fit.

This is a problem with atheism. It is wholly self centered. We do owe our parents for our whole lives. When we are young we are to obey them, as we mature into adulthood we should still listen to their advice. Suicide is clearly a violation of the fifth commandment (Do not kill.) Furthermore withholding reasonable medical treatment is a violation of this same commandment. In short, our actions must be focused on the good of others, and not totally self-centerd, as you seem to endorse.

 

[MumboJumbo]

Replacement rate is 2 kids per couple. Europe falls below this. Russia is even worse. Americans are holding up their end, barely, because most Americans don’t buy the overpopulation myth. If most of the world is living in poverty, it isn’t because there is not enough to go around, or even because rich people are hoarding it all. This is getting far afield of suicide, unless you are advocating it as a solution to overpopulation.

The US population has been steadily climbing. In 1950, the US population was 158 million people. We now have over 300 million people. What will happen in the next 50 years?

 

[LilyM]

Christybeth - extra prayers to St Dymphna (patron of those suffering from mental or nervous disorders) for you and all others affected by depression, bipolar, schizophrenia and other mental illness.

All that you have said is true, I agree with it 100% - in as far as it applies to people in your situation.

Remember, however, that many people murder others without being in the least bit affected by mental illness or any other factor that might mitigate them morally. It stands to reason that the same applies to at least some people who take their own lives. It is those people the Church is addressing with her teaching.

We must condemn murder and all other sins as (in general) the moral evils they are, in spite of the fact that people do all sorts of things when mentally ill that otherwise would be sins, and thus could be offended by the description of their behaviours in this way.

We fail in our obligation as Christians if we don’t call sin sin for fear of offending those who have extenuating circumstances.

I say all this having had a mentally ill family friend who killed a relative. I’m very aware of the personal pain behind such events.

This doesn’t remove our obligation to teach the difference between right and wrong in the slightest. We just need to be careful to reassure those who are mentally ill that we do recognise their unique situation with its accompanying difficulties. :hug3: