why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[Gabriel_of_12]

Unfortunately; there is no “eighth day” on the calendar;

**Maybe not on your calender but in God’s calender and bible there exists an “eighth day” many times, here is one for example;

Leviticus
Chapter 9
1
On the eighth day **Moses summoned Aaron and his sons, together with the elders of Israel,
2
and said to Aaron, "Take a calf for a sin offering and a ram for a holocaust, both without blemish, and offer them before the LORD.

and the resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath.

Jesus death and resurrection has everything to do with being Christian. For one Jesus rested his humanity on the Sabbath, just as God did when he first created after the six day creation week recorded in Genesis. Remember Jesus said the first are last and the last are first. So God began his creation on the first day, which begins on Sunday. Jesus begins his new Christian creation after he rested his humanity on the Sabbath completing his old creation, Now raised from the dead on Sunday, the first day of creation week, now begins a new creation not only with a body but with the Holy Spirit also, that is why Paul a Jew records in scripture that we are a new creation in Christ Jesus. So yes Jesus resurrection has everything to do in fulfiling the old covenant creation Sabbatical laws not to mention fulfill all the laws and the prophets.

I disagree that MarysRoses posts are “theologically sound;” except to say they are sound Catholic theology.

Where in the Bible are we literally told to celebrate any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?” Where does it actually say we are to “transfer” the “seventh-day Sabbath principle” to any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?”

**Your correct protestant 101, the bible does not litterally state we as Christians are to celebrate a day in honor of the resurrection. Because scripture states the first Christians celebrate Mass on the “Lords day”, (see Luke 24, where Jesus conducts the first Mass on Sunday the resurrection day) which when calculated correctly through scripture is celebrated on the first day of the week, which is Sunday.

No where is it stated that the Sabbath day was “trasfered”. It is stated that Sunday “replaces” the Sabbath day ceremonials. For one, the temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. I think your interjecting false pretenses about first century worship by Christians on Sunday the “Lords day” with Jewish Sabbath observances according to the Laws dictated by the Mosaic law, which no Christian sect can practice according to the dicated biblical laws and precepts of the Sabbath.**

Peace be with you
P.s, here is a tip for you Protestant 101. The new testament is not a book of strict instruction on how to practice Christianity this might be your misunderstanding. The New Testament is a compilation of sacred Letters recorded for different communities that summarized the christian faith, followed by the Oral Traditions handed down to them by the apostles themselves. The first century Christians got their faith directly from Jesus and the apostles themsleves which is unchanged in the Catholic church today, who still holds to these teachings by both Oral Sacred Tradtions and Sacred Scripture.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Unfortunately; there is no “eighth day” on the calendar; and the resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath.

I disagree that MarysRoses posts are “theologically sound;” except to say they are sound Catholic theology.

Where in the Bible are we literally told to celebrate any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?” Where does it actually say we are to “transfer” the “seventh-day Sabbath principle” to any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?”

Take it up with the NT Church, because they met on the First Day. Acts 7:20.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Unfortunately; there is no “eighth day” on the calendar; and the resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath.

I disagree that MarysRoses posts are “theologically sound;” except to say they are sound Catholic theology.

Where in the Bible are we literally told to celebrate any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?” Where does it actually say we are to “transfer” the “seventh-day Sabbath principle” to any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?”

Btw, your sign "“Scripture Must Be Its Own Expositor, since It Is A Rule Of Itself…” contradicts Scripture Acts 8:31. LOL.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Pat,

Are you aware of any OT references that may elude to a change in days? I’m really starting to find some interest in this topic and would like to explore it much further

Thanks all and God Bless all of you

Hi imroc,

WOW…I forgot a very important, interesting, and informative post on this thread until I saw the two posts by Isa Almisry above.

In addition to the excellent posts by MarysRoses that I referred you to, take a look at **Post # 173 **by Isa Almisry in this thread. Especially read the two links in that post…very very good and very informative!!!

God bless all!!!

 

[guanophore]

Unfortunately; there is no “eighth day” on the calendar; and the resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath.

So, what do you think the reference is about?

I disagree that MarysRoses posts are “theologically sound;” except to say they are sound Catholic theology.

Well, since this is the most sound theology available, I think that is great!

Where in the Bible are we literally told to celebrate any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?” Where does it actually say we are to “transfer” the “seventh-day Sabbath principle” to any day of the week, “in honor of the resurrection?”

I don’t believe any such commandment can be found. Just like the term “Trinity” and the table of contents for the Bible, it is not found there. These things come to us through the Apostolic Tradition.

 

[imroc]

Hi imroc,

WOW…I forgot a very important, interesting, and informative post on this thread until I saw the two posts by Isa Almisry above.

In addition to the excellent posts by MarysRoses that I referred you to, take a look at **Post # 173 **by Isa Almisry in this thread. Especially read the two links in that post…very very good and very informative!!!

God bless all!!!

Thanks alot, Pat. I have to admit that I haven’t read through all the threads and I appreciate you helping me out. I take interest because my wife’s boss is SDA and often makes comments to her because she pretty much knows my my wife refuses retort. When I’m around, she won’t make any comments because she know’s I will have another question in return that will require some thought…usually.

One day I asked her boss if she had a “book of SDA doctrines” and she quickly answered they believe in the bible alone. The irony is, she handed me a book a few days later titled, “What SDA’s believe”. I thought this was funny because she basically claimed sola-scriptura and implied they don’t need anything else, however this book she handed me was full of doctrines/beliefs/what-have-you. I read some of it, which seemed to really be reaching beyond belief. Some of the things I found really interesting is how they basically say that old protestant faiths and traditions hadn’t fully rid themselves of being catholic. The implication is that unless one rids themselves completely of “catholic-ish” practices and disciplines, then they are always going to be condemned for not taking the reformation far enough. I though this was absurd, but I kinda saw this idea played out when I worked at a local JW Kingdom hall. Anything and everything that one would expect to find in a Christian church/building/temple was not to be found in this hall. My heart was really saddened by this. I also didn’t like how my wife’s boss and few others in their congregation didn’t really like the way their pastor was working out so they decided to pretty much replace the poor fella. I could go on, but I often think of the problems we have in our own parishes here in our little mountain valley and all I can do is pray.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Thanks alot, Pat. I have to admit that I haven’t read through all the threads and I appreciate you helping me out. I take interest because my wife’s boss is SDA and often makes comments to her because she pretty much knows my my wife refuses retort. When I’m around, she won’t make any comments because she know’s I will have another question in return that will require some thought…usually.

One day I asked her boss if she had a “book of SDA doctrines” and she quickly answered they believe in the bible alone. The irony is, she handed me a book a few days later titled, “What SDA’s believe”. I thought this was funny because she basically claimed sola-scriptura and implied they don’t need anything else, however this book she handed me was full of doctrines/beliefs/what-have-you. I read some of it, which seemed to really be reaching beyond belief. Some of the things I found really interesting is how they basically say that old protestant faiths and traditions hadn’t fully rid themselves of being catholic. The implication is that unless one rids themselves completely of “catholic-ish” practices and disciplines, then they are always going to be condemned for not taking the reformation far enough. I though this was absurd, but I kinda saw this idea played out when I worked at a local JW Kingdom hall. Anything and everything that one would expect to find in a Christian church/building/temple was not to be found in this hall. My heart was really saddened by this. I also didn’t like how my wife’s boss and few others in their congregation didn’t really like the way their pastor was working out so they decided to pretty much replace the poor fella. I could go on, but I often think of the problems we have in our own parishes here in our little mountain valley and all I can do is pray.

You’re welcome imroc! Yes, it is an interesting claim of following the Bible only, and I always made that claim when I was a SDA. But they do have an extra-Biblical authority, the prophetess of the church Ellen Gould White. She takes quite a bit of, what shall I call it, “poetic license” in her writings.

If you are interested, and as you have time, you may want to check out the thread in Non-Catholic Religions on here titled “Amazing Facts Bible Study Guide”. There is a lot of dialog between current SDAs and former SDAs who are now Catholic. You will hear from former SDAs on there with a sort of “insiders” view of things. I would suggest that you start at the beginning of that thread and take your time reading the entire thread…it is quite revealing of many things, not the least of which is human nature (of which I find I have quite a bit) But that may give you some insights to share with your wife.

As for problems in churches, there are no problems unique to one church that cannot be found in all the others. You either have to try and solve those problems, put up with them, or leave…but the problems turn up everywhere. What is important is what a church teaches, what is the ideal, the goal, the purpose. Just because people fall short of the goal does not mean that the goal is not good.

I joined the SDA church because I believed that it was God’s true church. As I discovered that it wasn’t based on its teachings, I had to leave. I joined the Catholic Church (well, I will join next Easter, but I’m “Catholic” for all practical purposes) because over the past 23 years, I have been convinced beyond any shadow of a dobut that the Catholic Church is God’s True Church…the One True Fold…and I thank God every day for that!!! It is a matter of eternal ramifications! It is a long process for some…it was for me. Much much prayer is needed, because spiritual things can only be understood through the Holy Spirit.

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Unfortunately; there is no “eighth day” on the calendar;

And there is no Heaven on the map.

 

[Protestant101]

And there is no Heaven on the map.

Well; if I was a good apologist; I guess I could say in reply that heaven is where God is, and the “eighth day” is after the seventh day. But methinks the point was made better in my last post. Take care and may God continue to bless our online discussion/study.

I have seen various comments/characterizations come forth on both sides; yet I know that it has only served to strengthen my faith; so for all those challenges of your’s I thank you!

 

[Protestant101]

As for problems in churches, there are no problems unique to one church that cannot be found in all the others. You either have to try and solve those problems, put up with them, or leave…but the problems turn up everywhere. What is important is what a church teaches, what is the ideal, the goal, the purpose. Just because people fall short of the goal does not mean that the goal is not good.

Out of all the things you have posted, this would be one thing we could be close to agreement in. Except that I would question whether or not the average Catholic really knows what their leaderships “goals” actually are. I find a lot of confusion in the ranks whenever this kind of topic comes up.

 

[Lilyflower]

Mark 2:27-28 And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord of the sabbath also.

I want to quote a section of Matthew, particulary from Chapter 22

I’ve always been taught since I became catholic that Christ summed up the 10 commandments into these two above. Of course, adoration of God is above the 2nd, which is about our neighbor.

I bring this up because there seems to be a certain implication by SDA and other Sabbatarian Christians that the 4th commandment is THE commandment and above the rest. If this were so, why would Christ not raise this point when he spoke to the Saducees and Pharisees? Rather, he seems to just sum up the first set of commandments in regard to God, in order to show the essence of their purpose: To love the LORD our God with our whole heart and with our whole soul and with our whole mind. (as a side note, I appeal to this verse in my heart when I hear people charge catholics of idolatry because of our statues). In other words, I really think that Christ simply refocuses us to the true purpose rather then our temptations of trying to legalize and build fascinating doctrines on commandments .

I fail to see Satan’s success in this attempt because I fail to see the honor taken away from the One God. This idea seems to be a smoke screen in my opinion

I never have been good at understanding the whole change by the early church which still stands today. I recognize the Sabbath to be Saturday and Sunday to be “The Lord’s Day”. The Sabbath will always be the Sabbath, but It’s quite evident that St. John’s invitation to the heavenly worship occuring on the Lord’s Day is, in fact, the Mass. Obviously it’s full of beautiful and frightening imagery and until I read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn, I pretty much never understood the odd writing.

Like I said, I’m no good at explaining Sabbath and Lord’s Day differences nor am I an apologist. I feel that citing “Lord’s Day” texts from the NT can be good, but we should just simply look at the reasons of God’s commandments and escape the legalistic citings.

If I am out of order here, please help me. I’m just trying to state my humble and “simple” understanding.

Another good read on God the Son’s Commandment: newadvent.org/fathers/1701083.htm

My Emphasis.

Then you have no idea that the Holy Spirit is speaking through you as the true apologist that you are. In fact, you explain yourself [or was it the Holy Spirit] so eloquently.

You have for me answered many questions with which I have for several years been wrestling.

May God continue to give you His peace

Blessings and peace

 

[Isa_Almisry]

So, what do you think the reference is about?

Well, since this is the most sound theology available, I think that is great!

I don’t believe any such commandment can be found. Just like the term “Trinity” and the table of contents for the Bible, it is not found there. These things come to us through the Apostolic Tradition.

Nor can you find sola scriptura. And no, it doesnt’ come to us through Apostolic Tradition but post-Reformation speculation.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

And there is no Heaven on the map.

 

[guanophore]

Nor can you find sola scriptura. And no, it doesnt’ come to us through Apostolic Tradition but post-Reformation speculation.

I think my post was unclear. I was speaking about the canon of scripture coming from Sacred Tradition.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I think my post was unclear. I was speaking about the canon of scripture coming from Sacred Tradition.

No, you were clear.

I just wanted to make it clear that that is not their only problem.

 

[Protestant101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murebil forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cag/viewpost.gif
And there is no Heaven on the map.

You should have used a thumbs down; Patrick is wrong. Heaven actually is on the Christian map. But there are only 7 days in that same map.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murebil forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cag/viewpost.gif
And there is no Heaven on the map.

You should have used a thumbs down; Patrick is wrong. Heaven actually is on the Christian map. But there are only 7 days in that same map.

Those of us who believe in a Risen Lord have the 8th day of creation on our calendar. Actually, it transcends the calendar.

 

[Friedrich]

Dear Patrick

I thought you had left this planet! Good to see that you are back from a lovely holiday at the sea. Somehow I missed out on the fact that you had started posting again on this forum.

Have looked briefly at a few articles/books on the apocrypha etc. especially the LXX that you mentioned. Still found no new evidence to convince me that they were originally part of Sacred Scripture.

I will be very happy if you could start sharing with me what you have learned from Genesis 1 & 2. I will try and do likewise, in the same positive, Christian spirit you have always shown.

God bless

Friedrich

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Dear Patrick

I thought you had left this planet! Good to see that you are back from a lovely holiday at the sea. Somehow I missed out on the fact that you had started posting again on this forum.

Have looked briefly at a few articles/books on the apocrypha etc. especially the LXX that you mentioned. Still found no new evidence to convince me that they were originally part of Sacred Scripture.

I will be very happy if you could start sharing with me what you have learned from Genesis 1 & 2. I will try and do likewise, in the same positive, Christian spirit you have always shown.

God bless

Friedrich

Dear Friedrich,

I too was beginning to wonder how you were…but it is good to hear from you and I trust all is well with you and yours!!

May I ask you this one question… are you saying that the “apocrapha” is not part of the LXX, or that you just don’t consider it to be inspired?

If you don’t consider it to be inspired, that is your opinion for your reasons…I’m just wondering if you are saying there is no evidence that those books were contained in the LXX at Jesus’ time.

We will begin our discussion of Genesis 1 and 2.

I’m glad you are ok!

God bless all!!!

 

[Friedrich]

Hi Patrick,

Good to hear from you! You asked:

May I ask you this one question… are you saying that the “apocrapha” is not part of the LXX, or that you just don’t consider it to be inspired?

If you don’t consider it to be inspired, that is your opinion for your reasons

Sorry for not being clear – simply saying it is not inspired in the same way as the rest of the Bible, but obviously useful for perusing like other religious documents of that time.

God bless

Friedrich