why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

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SDA2RC said:
Happily,
The 3rd Commandment is not to observe the Lords Day… its to observe the 7th Day as a SAbbath… Therefore you dont observe the commandment.

You are doing the opposite of what the Biblical and catchetical commandment says… you are observing the first day of the week… the commandment is to observe the last day of the week.

Like I said last night… there is really nothing else I can say. You just dont seem to get it, or dont want to admit it.

Its ok… I dont keep the SAbbath either… but until you admit that you dont observe the commandments, we cant help you understand the scriptural basis for not doing so.

Yes… that means that when the Church says that we observe the Commandments, you will have to wince and say… not really… we observe the commandments as taught and interpreted by the Church, not as given by God.

The problem is that when Catholics or Baptists or anyone else go to Adventists and say “oh yea, we keep the commandments”, we have just showed dishonesty and lost all credibility. They can read and know we dont keep the 7th Day Sabbath… so it is better to be up front and explain that we dont… and explain why and what the Church’s relationship is to the law.
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Now, was that so hard?

We can now agree to disagree.
 
To anyone one this thread:

Does the statement below sound catholic or Seventh Day Adventist?

**Its ok… I dont keep the SAbbath either… but until you admit that you dont observe the commandments, we cant help you understand the scriptural basis for not doing so.
**
 
happilycatholic said:
“What we have here is a failure to communicate”.

**"Oh my… the Bible commandment in Exodus is the true form of the Commandment, that is why the Catechism uses it word for word when listing the 3rd commandment, and thats why its in our Bible… we can trust our Bibles… LOL There is no true’r form that scripture its self. **

**I dont need to show you that we dont keep the 3rd commandment of the Bible… all you have to do is think… You dont need the Church or anyone else to tell you… its obvious. Its no wonder Non-catholics think Catholics are brainwashed… "

**It’s called individual interpretation of the Scripture. Very Protestant of you to just come right out and say “we don’t need the Church, blah, blah, blah.”

The Church doesn’t change Scripture, it interprets it. Good grief, that’s one of the most basic apologetic doctrines there is.

If you think catechism is brainwashing then you are a member of the wrong Church my friend.

The very reason you don’t believe catholics or Christians alike are bound by the Commandments is because you REFUSE to agree with the catechism, the Vatican website and any other Deposit of Faith given to you to explain it.
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Happily,
Its not a protestant interpretation… the Catechism tells us that the 3rd Commandment is about the 7th Day Sabbath (Not The Lords Day). I quoted it to you earlier.

But besides that… the Church does claim that we can think on our own… or even interpret on our own. It says that those things which are dogmatically defined are out of bounds… there aren’t very many of those…

But besides that… I am not teaching anything outside of what the Church teaches anyway.
 
SDA2RC said:
Happily,
Its not a protestant interpretation… the Catechism tells us that the 3rd Commandment is about the 7th Day Sabbath (Not The Lords Day). I quoted it to you earlier.

But besides that… the Church does claim that we can think on our own… or even interpret on our own. It says that those things which are dogmatically defined are out of bounds… there aren’t very many of those…

But besides that… I am not teaching anything outside of what the Church teaches anyway.
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Where does the Church teach that we aren’t bound by the Commandments? I showed you precisely where it teaches that we are.

Where does the Church teach that we aren’t bound by the Fourth Commandment, specifically? I showed you precisely where it teaches that we are.

Where does the Church teach that weekly mass was their idea? I showed you specifically where the Church got that directly from it’s interpretation of the Fourth Commandment as it is fulfilled by Christ’s coming.

You are a catholic that disagrees with some Church doctrine. I get that. But you are speading false doctrine when you say these things. You need to present them for what they are, YOUR OPINIONS, just as you plainly admitted in your last post.
 
happilycatholic said:
Where does the Church teach that we aren’t bound by the Commandments? I showed you precisely where it teaches that we are.

Where does the Church teach that we aren’t bound by the Fourth Commandment, specifically? I showed you precisely where it teaches that we are.

Where does the Church teach that weekly mass was their idea? I showed you specifically where the Church got that directly from it’s interpretation of the Fourth Commandment as it is fulfilled by Christ’s coming.

You are a catholic that disagrees with some Church doctrine. I get that. But you are speading false doctrine when you say these things. You need to present them for what they are, YOUR OPINIONS, just as you plainly admitted in your last post.
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Happily,
I am a Catholic that disagrees with your understanding of the Catholic Church doctrine.

My understanding of the Old Law Vs. New and how that affects our literal understanding of the commandments, is fully supported by the Church, and does not negate anything the Church says.

Its not spreading a false doctrine to claim that we dont keep the 3rd Commandment of the Bible, which is to observe the 7th day Sabbath… we simply don’t. Its fact. Its plain reality. Its not opinion either.
 
happilycatholic said:
To anyone one this thread:

Does the statement below sound catholic or Seventh Day Adventist?

**Its ok… I dont keep the SAbbath either… but until you admit that you dont observe the commandments, we cant help you understand the scriptural basis for not doing so.
**
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ROTFL… an Adventist would not claim there is a scriptural basis for not keep the Commandments as they are written in the Bible, specifically the commandment to observe the 7th day Sabbath…

😉
 
This is from the Catholic Education Resource Center:

**Nevertheless, because the Mass offers such precious gifts, provides the nourishment of great graces, and unites us as a Church, we do indeed have a sacred obligation to attend Mass. Remember that the Third Commandment stated, “Keep Holy the Sabbath.” For the Jewish people, the Old Testament Sabbath was on Saturday, marking the “Day of rest” after creation. For Christians, we have always kept holy Sunday, the day of the resurrection. Just as creation unfolded on the first day of the week with God commanding, “Let there be light,” our Lord, the Light who came to shatter the darkness of sin and death, rose from the dead on that first day marking the new creation. **
 
This is from Catholics United for Faith:

The requirement to attend Mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation, rooted in the Third Commandment and codified in Church law (cf. Code of Canon Law, canons 1246-48) is
a serious obligation for all Catholics. A Catholic who (a) is able to attend Sunday Mass (i.e., who is
not impeded by illness, lack of transportation, etc.), (b) knows the seriousness of this requirement, and
(c) nonetheless freely chooses to miss Mass, thereby commits a mortal sin (cf. Catechism, no. 2181).

Anyone who does not abide by this is on his/her own and clearly not within the doctrine of the catholic Church!
 
happilycatholic said:
Where does the Church teach that weekly mass was their idea? I showed you specifically where the Church got that directly from it’s interpretation of the Fourth Commandment as it is fulfilled by Christ’s coming
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Happily:

The proof that obligatory Sunday Mass attendance is the Church’s idea, is a) that no where in the Bible is it required and b) the rule is listed in the Church Precepts. In the New Testament the Apostles, having the power to bind and loose both in heaven and on earth, instituted daily Mass (see the quote below). Why should it be amazing that one of the Apostles between then and now should use the Church’s authority to require Sunday Mass Attendance?

Marsha
Acts 2:41-47
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42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
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I dont disagree with any of that. It doesnt change the fact though that we dont Keep the 3rd Commandment which is to Keep the 7th Day (Saturday) as a Sabbath.
happilycatholic said:
This is from the Catholic Education Resource Center:

**Nevertheless, because the Mass offers such precious gifts, provides the nourishment of great graces, and unites us as a Church, we do indeed have a sacred obligation to attend Mass. Remember that the Third Commandment stated, “Keep Holy the Sabbath.” For the Jewish people, the Old Testament Sabbath was on Saturday, marking the “Day of rest” after creation. For Christians, we have always kept holy Sunday, the day of the resurrection. Just as creation unfolded on the first day of the week with God commanding, “Let there be light,” our Lord, the Light who came to shatter the darkness of sin and death, rose from the dead on that first day marking the new creation. **
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I dont disagree with any of this… Your preaching to the Choir…

However, this does not mean that we observe the 3rd Commandment which says to keep the 7th Day as a Sabbath. We dont.
happilycatholic said:
This is from Catholics United for Faith:

The requirement to attend Mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation, rooted in the Third Commandment and codified in Church law (cf. Code of Canon Law, canons 1246-48) is
a serious obligation for all Catholics. A Catholic who (a) is able to attend Sunday Mass (i.e., who is
not impeded by illness, lack of transportation, etc.), (b) knows the seriousness of this requirement, and
(c) nonetheless freely chooses to miss Mass, thereby commits a mortal sin (cf. Catechism, no. 2181).

Anyone who does not abide by this is on his/her own and clearly not within the doctrine of the catholic Church!
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SDA2RC said:
ROTFL… an Adventist would not claim there is a scriptural basis for not keep the Commandments as they are written in the Bible, specifically the commandment to observe the 7th day Sabbath…

😉
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Laugh if you want.

At least you have the courage.
 
SDA2RC said:
I dont disagree with any of this… Your preaching to the Choir…

However, this does not mean that we observe the 3rd Commandment which says to keep the 7th Day as a Sabbath. We dont.
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You’re just stubborn and won’t admit that it’s right there staring you in the face.

That is absolutely an SDA argument.
 
happilycatholic said:
This is from Catholics United for Faith:

**The requirement to attend Mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation, **rooted in the Third Commandment ****and codified in Church law (cf. Code of Canon Law, canons 1246-48) is
a serious obligation for all Catholics. A Catholic who (a) is able to attend Sunday Mass (i.e., who is
not impeded by illness, lack of transportation, etc.), (b) knows the seriousness of this requirement, and
(c) nonetheless freely chooses to miss Mass, thereby commits a mortal sin (cf. Catechism, no. 2181).

Anyone who does not abide by this is on his/her own and clearly not within the doctrine of the catholic Church!
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Happily:

This quote that you have provided does not say that we are bound to keep the 3rd commandment. Just because a practice is ROOTED in a previous practice does not mean that one is bound by the previous practice.

Consider the Christmas tree. The first Catholic missionary to arrive in Germany found the pagan Germans worshipping the evergreen. The missionary wanted to use this practice to point them to Christ. Ergo, the Christmas Tree is rooted in paganism, yet we find them in the Church every year because we have changed them from a practice of pagan worship to a joyous Christian symbol. Just because our practice of Sunday Mass Attendance is ROOTED in the 3rd commandment does not mean that we are bound by the 3rd commandment.

Marsha
 
happilycatholic said:
You’re just stubborn and won’t admit that it’s right there staring you in the face.

That is absolutely an SDA argument.
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I may be stubborn… but it has nothing to do with this.

The fact that we dont keep the 7th Day Sabbath as the Third Commandment tells us to do, has nothing to do with stubbornness, it is simply fact.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Happily:

The proof that obligatory Sunday Mass attendance is the Church’s idea, is a) that no where in the Bible is it required and b) the rule is listed in the Church Precepts. In the New Testament the Apostles, having the power to bind and loose both in heaven and on earth, instituted daily Mass (see the quote below). Why should it be amazing that one of the Apostles between then and now should use the Church’s authority to require Sunday Mass Attendance?

Marsha
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Marsha, it’s well known that some Apostle somewhere had to give the word, but it was according to Scripture and says so in the catechism:

The requirement to attend Mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation, rooted in the Third Commandment and codified in Church law (cf. Code of Canon Law, canons 1246-48)

I never said it wasn’t an Apostolic Tradition, I said it wasn’t something “made up”. In other words, it is rooted in Scripture, specifically the Third Commandment. It was codified by the Church because it was already in practice. The Church didn’t make it a rule. The Father (God in the 3d Comm.), the Son (at the Last Supper), and The Holy Spirit (when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the Apostles).

I don’t understand why this is so hard for you. It’s there in many, many Church writings from many, many sources including the Church itself.
 
I think you have confused the terms “Rooted in” scripture and “according to” scripture. Scripture no where tells us to worship on Sunday, or keep Sunday holy.

The belief of the Church in the sacredness of the first day is rooted in our scriptural understanding, particularly our understanding about the authority of the Church, but is not according to scripture. There is quite a big difference.
happilycatholic said:
Marsha, it’s well known that some Apostle somewhere had to give the word, but it was according to Scripture and says so in the catechism:

The requirement to attend Mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation, rooted in the Third Commandment and codified in Church law (cf. Code of Canon Law, canons 1246-48)

I never said it wasn’t an Apostolic Tradition, I said it wasn’t something “made up”. In other words, it is rooted in Scripture, specifically the Third Commandment. It was codified by the Church because it was already in practice. The Church didn’t make it a rule. The Father (God in the 3d Comm.), the Son (at the Last Supper), and The Holy Spirit (when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the Apostles).

I don’t understand why this is so hard for you. It’s there in many, many Church writings from many, many sources including the Church itself.
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Generally speaking, Church law grounded in Apostolic Tradition does not state that it was codified because “_” said so. It states scriptural grounds for believing the Apostle said so or did so, etc.

We do not have Holy Mass on Sunday because “Peter said so”. We have Holy Mass on Sunday because Christ gave them His Body and Blood in rememberance of His Covenant with us. We don’t have mass because some Apostle said, “we’ve been doing this a long time, let’s just make it law”.

We do it because the Church believes it was instituted by God (Commandment) through Christ (Passion and Resurrection) and so it was codified.

Even Apostolic Tradition is grounded in Scripture. The Church will not do anything it does not believe is in some way, grounded in Scripture.

To say that the Church just makes up laws and sins that “are not in the Bible” is rediculous and totally against Church doctrine.

That is a Protestant point of view.
 
What does it mean to be grounded in scripture to you? Or Rooted in scripture? What does that mean to you?
happilycatholic said:
Generally speaking, Church law grounded in Apostolic Tradition does not state that it was codified because “_” said so. It states scriptural grounds for believing the Apostle said so or did so, etc.

We do not have Holy Mass on Sunday because “Peter said so”. We have Holy Mass on Sunday because Christ gave them His Body and Blood in rememberance of His Covenant with us. We don’t have mass because some Apostle said, “we’ve been doing this a long time, let’s just make it law”.

We do it because the Church believes it was instituted by God (Commandment) through Christ (Passion and Resurrection) and so it was codified.

Even Apostolic Tradition is grounded in Scripture. The Church will not do anything it does not believe is in some way, grounded in Scripture.

To say that the Church just makes up laws and sins that “are not in the Bible” is rediculous and totally against Church doctrine.

That is a Protestant point of view.
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