why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[happilycatholic]

Hi,

Just for the record, from your explanation in the other thread, I realize that you do believe in the Eternal Trinity!!! Please post your explanation from that thread into this thread.

Did I create a big pile of poo with that or what!

I have already been accused of heresy! Not that the nature of that charge is funny, but the irony in it is.

Peace Be With You and thanks for your kind comments.

 

[Protestant101]

Are you saying that the Trinity did not exist at the time of creation? If so you need to go back to the Catechism and read those sections.

Actually, its in the Bible too.

 

[SDA2RC]

Actually, its in the Bible too.

Protestant101,
Happily Catholic was saying that the formulation of the Trinitarian understanding of God was not complete until a few thousand years later. Yes there is evidence of the Trinity in the Old Testamant, but from the OT alone, which is what the Jews had (the books of Moses in the case of those who received the 10 Commandments) the meaning of the Sabbath had nothing to do with Christ because they did not understand the nature or revelation of Christ.

So while I agree that there is evidence in the scripture, from the context of the time of the commandments, which is what Happily was commenting on, there really was nothing explicit that would have led them to any understanding than that of a singular God with as a singular person.

I think you will probably agree with that…

As you know, many Adventists in the early SDA Church were arian or Semi-arians at best… in fact, Uriah Smith stated that the doctrine of the Trinity was one of the 4 foundational errors of Catholicism (the others being the Sabbath/Sunday issue, immortal soul, and rejection of Sola Scriptura). If Uriah Smith and other Adventists could not find the Trinity in Scripture, then certainly the Jews couldnt with only half of scripture, and that being prior to the revelation of Christ.

 

[myroneffing]

STOP! STOP! STOP!

1. SDA’s are saying: God wants ALL PEOPLE FROM GENESIS 1 TO REVELATION 22 TO KEEP ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS FOREVER. To prove this, they give Bible verses as support.
2. Catholics are saying: THE JEWISH COMMANDMENTS WERE NAILED TO THE CROSS, CHRISTIANS NOW LIVE UNDER GRACE. To prove this, they give Bible verses as support, and claim a direct shortcut to God via TRADITION if all else fails.

RESULT: Frustration, accusations like SDA’s hate Catholics, etc.

Please let my try to summarize what SDA’s are saying:

1. GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS, NOT MAN’S IDEAS.
   1. 
      *]God’s Commands
      *]Man’s Commands
      *]Result
   1. 
      *]To Eve – Do NOT eat from tree – you will die!
      *]Snake – eat, you will NOT die!
      *]Eve DIES!
      
      1. 
         *]Abel – offer a lamb for sins
         *]Cain – I will offer fruit
         *]God rejects Cain’s offering! Cain murders Abel!
         
         1. 
            *]Noah – go into ark, or drown
            *]Leaders – it has never rained!
            *]Noah’s family saved, rest drowned!
            
            1. 
               *]This is my beloved Son with whom I am well pleased
               *]Crucify him!
               *]God rejects the Jewish nation as His covenant people!
               
               1. 
                  *]REMEMBER the Sabbath Day, because God created…
                  *]Remember the Resurrection day, because Jesus rose from the grave…
                  *]Most churches believe in evolution, reject God as Creator!
                  
                  1. 
                     *]All Scripture is inspired…
                     *]Tradition = greater than Scripture
                     *]The Bible has lost its authority as God’s spoken Word!
                     
                     1. 
                        *]OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS will be a test before Christ returns to this earth again (Rev 12:14 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring – those who OBEY GOD’S COMMANDMENTS and hold to THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS’’) *]OBEDIENCE TO MAN’S COMMANDMENTS if you want to be able to buy or sell (The beast… opened his mouth to blaspheme God… He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them’’. Rev. 13:5-7. The other beast made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast… He also forced everyone… to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell… If ANYONE has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast for it is MAN’S NUMBER.’’ Rev. 13:11-18 *]If ANYONE worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath… This calls for patient endurance on the part of THE SAINTS WHO OBEY GOD’S COMMANDMENTS AND REMAIN FAITHFUL TO JESUS.’’ Rev. 14:9-12
                        
                        CONCLUSION: When Jesus returns, there will only be 2 classes of people on earth – those who OBEY GOD/those who OBEY MAN. In ALL cases above, the MINORITY obeyed God, with wonderful rewards, but the MAJORITY obeyed man, with disastrous results!
                        NB NB These two classes of people will NOT BE DETERMINED BY CHURCH AFFILLIATION, BUT BY PERSONAL OBEDIENCE TO GOD OR TO MAN!
                        1. To my Catholic FRIENDS, I plead with you: In your efforts to protect your special day, Sunday, DO NOT BE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO NAIL GOD’S LAW TO THE CROSS IN ORDER TO AVOID SATURDAY WORSHIP! Either nail all 10 commandments to the cross, or zero!
                           • Have you ever pondered the results of doing away with the 10 commandments? Would you be happy for your children to use God’s name in vain, show disrespect to their parents, murder, lie, steal, covet? Don’t sacrifice that to protect Sunday worship!
                           • Have you ever thought WHY Jesus had to die? If God’s commandments were not important, Jesus could just have nailed them to the cross, and gone back to heaven without dying! JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS BECAUSE HIS LAWS ARE ETERNAL, UNCHANGEABLE, VITAL FOR THE HARMONIOUS SURVIVAL OF THE UNIVERSE!
                           • Finally, I have been amazed at the mental/spiritual gymnastic you have performed to try and prove that the Sabbath was a Jewish, Old Testament institution, but that Jesus and His disciples kept Sunday in the New Testament – DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT YOUR OWN CATHOLIC THEOLOGIANS ARE LAUGHING AT THESE FEEBLE EFFORTS? You are merely following PROTESTANT gymnastics to balance Sola Scriptura and Sunday worship – Check the following website, which is a series of 4 ARTICLES WRITTEN BY CATHOLIC THEOLOGIANS TO PROVE THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE IN THE WHOLE BIBLE THAT PROMOTES SUNDAY WORSHIP!
                           • ROME’S CHALLENGE - WHY DO PROTESTANTS KEEP SUNDAY? www.biblelight.net/chalng.htm
                        Thank you for your patience!
                        In the end, even though we are saved by Christ’s death on the cross, we still have to prove our loyalty to God instead of Satan during the final TEST BEFORE JESUS COMES. Therefore God says that only individuals who are faithful to Him and His commandments will be allowed into Heaven, irrespective of whether we are SDA or Catholic or Muslim or Agnostic.
                        Let’s start practicing loving each other a bit more NOW– after all, we will be spending ETERNITY TOGETHER IN HEAVEN!
                        
                        God bless,
                        
                        Friedrich

1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 
                        Friedrich, your letter shows me why I’m glad I’m a Catholic and not an Adventist. Your God is more like Hitler who is angry and demanding. He isn’t like the Father of Jesus. It seems that all that matters to him is those commandments, listening to you. The Gospel, especially as seen through the letters of St John show us a different way. How sad that you want to be the slave of the commandments that even the Jews could not keep. And God made the covenant with Israel, not with us Christians. He expected them to keep the Law. He expects us to live moral and upright lives as we wait in hope for the revelation of Christ to all of humanity. Jesus taught is that we will be judged, not by the Law, but rather by what we did to the least of His brothers.

 

[RobHom]

Wrong. The “Sabbath” has not been changed. Its still the same.

To “correctly understand” the issue, read these links:

newadvent.org/cathen/13287b.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm

Keep in mind…it really isn’t necessary for you to agree…we just have to hope that you “understand”…

I am ever amazed at the “intellectual myopia” that some people suffer from… maybe if I do the work for you it would be easier to understand the difference between the Sabbath of old to the Sabbath of the new…

**The sabbath in the New Testament

Christ, while observing the Sabbath, set himself in word and act against this absurd rigorism which made man a slave of the day. He reproved the scribes and Pharisees for putting an intolerable burden on men’s shoulders (Matthew 23:4), and proclaimed the principle that “the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath” (Mark 2:27). He cured on the Sabbath, and defended His disciples for plucking ears of corn on that day. In His arguments with the Pharisees on this account He showed that the Sabbath is not broken in cases of necessity or by acts of charity (Matthew 12:3 sqq.; Mark 2:25 sqq.; Luke 6:3 sqq.; 14:5). St. Paul enumerates the Sabbath among the Jewish observances which are not obligatory on Christians (Colossians 2:16; Galatians 4:9-10; Romans 14:5). The gentile converts held their religious meetings on Sunday (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2) and with the disappearance of the Jewish Christian churches this day was exclusively observed as the Lord’s Day. (See SUNDAY.)**

Hopefully this will illuminate some of you…

 

[RobGentner]

Hey there Pat

… Go back and read them and you’ll see I took a little heat from the SDAs for suggesting that the creation days may not be literal 24 hour periods.

**No matter how much I like you pat, I will not subject myself to going back through this thread. It is full of foolishness and lies! **I will just take your word on that! :yup:

So to make my point, I merely said to the SDAs, let’s look at the creation story as literal 24 hour days and that they (the SDAs) could answer all the questions that I knew would be coming from folks like you.

Pat, Never compromise the THRUTH. By doing that you might have caused one of these poor lost souls to be more firmly held in the grip of Satan. It says the Sun wasn’t created until the 4th Day. Let “them” explain how there was 24 hours days prior to anything being created or prior to the Sun on the 4th day. They may see the foolioshness of their belief system and have their eyes opened! When you compromise the Truth you insult God. Agreed?

My point was that the lesson’s to be learned from the creation story, even in regards to the sabbath, perhaps especially in regards to the sabbath, do not depend on either a literal 24 hour day period or a 24,000,000 year day period.

**Their point is that that it is correct as written. So foolish! **
We know the “creation” stories were from two different oral sources. All they are to teach “real” believes is: “GOD CREATED EVERYTHING FROM NOTHING WITH HIS DEVINE POWERS” Agree?

Go back and read what I said in my posts from way back around page 15 of this thread. If after your scrutinous review, you determine that I still don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m quite open to instruction!!!

Pat, As I said I believe you. We should always be open to instruction and cautious of the evil one and his children marked with the sign of the Beast! One Hint: It isn’t CATHOLICS!

God bless all!!!

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101,
So while I agree that there is evidence in the scripture, from the context of the time of the commandments, which is what Happily was commenting on, there really was nothing explicit that would have led them to any understanding than that of a singular God with as a singular person.

I think you will probably agree with that…

NO. I do not agree with that

 

[RobGentner]

…&c…&c 2. To my Catholic FRIENDS, I plead with you: In your efforts to protect your special day, Sunday, DO NOT BE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO NAIL GOD’S LAW TO THE CROSS IN ORDER TO AVOID SATURDAY WORSHIP!

HEY GENIUS, There is nothing in the Bible about WORSHIP on any DAY!

Sabbath is Hebrew for “Day of Rest” NOT “Day of Worship” There are no mention of any days that God must be WORSHIPPED ON!
**[SIGN]REMEMBER **[/SIGN]
OTHER PEOPLE CAN SHOUT ALSO! YOU aren’t the only one with cap lock!
We have nott done away with the 10 commandments just the foolish notion that Jesus would want us to follow the Sabbath when He persona;lly said NOT TO! He fullfilled it.

Now go hurry to your satanistic worship. Are you bulding a Golden calf? Might look nice~!
he cross, or zero!
• Have you ever pondered the results of cvoindemning your sould to Hell? !
• Jesus died for All our sins. PERIOD

** Hey Einstein,** There is no Verse in the scriptures that promote any “WORSHIP” on any day! Our Church Laws say we go to Church on Sundays to worship God. Why not? Jesus told us it was God’s day, and we aren’t to work anyway. The church said well since you are resting anyway why not come and be with Jesus physically aand Spiritually? Jesus said that His Body and Blood had to be eaten and drank in order for us be alive spiritually and to obtain eternal life. Although it wasn’t necessary they made a “church law” which can be changed any tim unlike God’s laws which are unchangable. Like Obeying the church and Pope. Not follow false prophets. All written more than 150, 500 or even more years ago. Jews rest on Saturdays, Some may even go to temple, they are only required to go several times a year.
Protestants and cult get together for fellowship, Just like true believers do after we have feasted on Jesus’ flesh and drank His blood.

Thank you for your patience!
In the end, even though we are saved by Christ’s death on the cross, we still have to prove our loyalty to God instead of Satan during the final TEST BEFORE JESUS COMES. Therefore God says that only individuals who are faithful to Him and His commandments will be allowed into Heaven, irrespective of whether we are SDA or Catholic or Muslim or Agnostic.
Let’s start practicing loving each other a bit more NOW– after all, we will be spending ETERNITY TOGETHER IN HEAVEN!

**Avtually, I don’t think you folks will be in heaven with the saved unless yopu change your evil ways and follow the real JESUS! . But I can’t judge. That is beyond my paygrade, as our president elect: Oshamea, said! **We must all face God along with only Jesus there as our meaditor. I know I love Jesus. I know He wants everyone to be saved! Why else die? I know I am in the "real’ Church that He left 2,000 years ago to provide us with Grace from the Holy Spirit. I know He loves! So I hope I have a better chance than if I was blindly ignoring His commandments and following Satan’s false path! I know my God is merciful! His scriptures written and passed down for 2,000 years tell of Satan stealing souls for his own use, I hope foolish people obtain the truth before they are condemned. remember: Unlike Diamonds, HELL is forever!

---

God Bless all here. May Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and His Wonderful Mother, The Blessed Virgin Mary pray for us now and at the Hour of our Deaths.

 

[RobGentner]

NO. I do not agree with that

**Could you EXPLAIN why?" Don’t worry you couldn’t sound any dumber! **

 

[happilycatholic]

Protestant101,
Happily Catholic was saying that the formulation of the Trinitarian understanding of God was not complete until a few thousand years later. Yes there is evidence of the Trinity in the Old Testamant, but from the OT alone, which is what the Jews had (the books of Moses in the case of those who received the 10 Commandments) the meaning of the Sabbath had nothing to do with Christ because they did not understand the nature or revelation of Christ.

So while I agree that there is evidence in the scripture, from the context of the time of the commandments, which is what Happily was commenting on, there really was nothing explicit that would have led them to any understanding than that of a singular God with as a singular person.

I think you will probably agree with that…

As you know, many Adventists in the early SDA Church were arian or Semi-arians at best… in fact, Uriah Smith stated that the doctrine of the Trinity was one of the 4 foundational errors of Catholicism (the others being the Sabbath/Sunday issue, immortal soul, and rejection of Sola Scriptura). If Uriah Smith and other Adventists could not find the Trinity in Scripture, then certainly the Jews couldnt with only half of scripture, and that being prior to the revelation of Christ.

Thanks Brandon.

Even after our wrangling too.

Peace Be With You

 

[Friedrich]

Dear Happycatholic

Thank you for being so kind and thoughtful in answering my long posting. You said:

I have a question for you, and I’m not a theologian so it’s a very simple question:

Whom do you give glory to by keeping the Sabbath?

The Trinity did not exist at the time of Creation, at the formation of Judaism, at the time of the Law of Moses or at any other point before Christ’s birth. So at the formation of the Sabbath, the Trinity did not exist. There was no glory given to God The Savior because Christ had not come yet. In fact that was the point of Christ’s Passion, to fill that void between us and God.

My answer would be: The Sabbath is a Memorial of Creation by God the Father, who used God the Son to do the actual work, assisted by God the Holy Spirit:
Gen 1: In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth... and the SPIRIT OF GOD was hovering over the waters.'' John 1: In the beginning was the WORD, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him ALL THINGS WERE MADE; withoug him nothing was made that has been made.’’ (referring to Jesus’ part in Creation).

The Sabbath is also a promise of Re-creation of the fallen human race on the cross, by God the Father, who sent His Son to live and die for us (John 3:16), who left His Spirit the Comforter to continue the healing process in us while we are still on earth. Hebr. 4:9-11 ``There remains then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest ALSO RESTS FROM HIS OWN WORK, just as God did from his. Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.’’
The Sabbath is therefore a symbol that the saved person has ceased trying to earn his salvation (a hopeless cause), but is resting in what Christ achieved through His life and death.

Happy Sabbath,

Friedrich

 

[Friedrich]

Dear Myroneffing,

You said:

Friedrich, your letter shows me why I’m glad I’m a Catholic and not an Adventist. Your God is more like Hitler who is angry and demanding. He isn’t like the Father of Jesus. It seems that all that matters to him is those commandments, listening to you. The Gospel, especially as seen through the letters of St John show us a different way. How sad that you want to be the slave of the commandments that even the Jews could not keep. And God made the covenant with Israel, not with us Christians. He expected them to keep the Law. He expects us to live moral and upright lives as we wait in hope for the revelation of Christ to all of humanity. Jesus taught is that we will be judged, not by the Law, but rather by what we did to the least of His brothers.

Thank you for disagreeing with me in such a kind, Christian way!
Yet you are saying Adventists believe in a Hitler-sort-of-a God, but Catholics believe in a Luvvy-Duvvy- sort-of-a-God.

Is it not rather ironical that Adventists teach that God is so loving that He burns up sinners (who will risk the security of Heaven) in hell-fire at the end of the world, while Catholics and Protestants insist that God tortures sinners for millions of years in scorching flames!

I think you misunderstood my words – as fellow Christian I can’t see how you think I believe in salvation by works!

I see salvation as a free gift from Christ, with my only part being 100% commitment to Christ. I am sure we agree on this. Like marrying your darling wife – a free gift you don’t deserve, but very well appreciate! What would my darling wife think of me if I:

• used her name in vain
• had other women in my life
  had pictures of sexy women that I drooled over
  was rude to her parents
  lied to her
  stole her money
  killed her brother
  envied her brother for his lovely car, wife etc?

Most likely our relationship would die!
Our salvation relationship with Jesus would also die if we ignored His commandments that are given to preserve our relationship!

Being kind to God = commands 1-4
Being kind to my fellow man - commands 5-10

God bless

Friedrich

 

[Friedrich]

Dear Robgentner

You said:

Now go hurry to your satanistic worship. Are you bulding a Golden calf? Might look nice~!
he cross, or zero!
• Have you ever pondered the results of cvoindemning your sould to Hell? !
• Jesus died for All our sins. PERIOD

Sorry if I upset you, but please remember that Jesus also died for your unchristian words printed above!

Brother, Christians obey Christ’s words. He said: ``If ye love me, keep my commandments.’’

Meaning that Christ died for ALL OUR SINS – yes. But that makes us responsible covenenant-partners who need to remain loyal to ALL Jesus’ instructions, including those commandments of love, that are given to improve our relationship with God (1-4), and make us more loving to each other (5-10) …

God bless

Friedrich

 

[happilycatholic]

Friedrich:
Happy Sabbath Friedrich!

Thank you for your answer. And please believe me when I say, I have a very simplistic mind. I don’t ask “trick” questions, just honest genuine ones. I may go back and forth a little, but that is because I’m a little set in my faith, as I’m sure you are. It’s not an intention to debate you, just to understand. I’ll try not to go to far with this.

If I’m reading correctly in keeping the Sabbath you are giving God glory for Creation and Jesus Glory because He is God as they have always been One. I understand that totally.

But my doubt comes in where I can make no connection to “Christ the risen Savior” in the Sabbath. Incidentally, neither can the Jews and so they continue worshipping on the Sabbath as well.

I can make a connection to Jesus as God, but not as our Savior since at the inception of the Sabbath, we did not know Him as our Savior. To give God glory in the Sabbath is to honor Him only for Creation. We can’t honor Him for something that isn’t revealed to us in that Commandment.

I think there is a focus on what it “is” and I think the problem lies with what it “is not”. I get hung up on what it is not because it is not about Christ’s Passion and Resurrection as that had not been revealed and it couldn’t have been the reason for the Sabbath and God did not state it as the reason for the Sabbath.

Part Two: By keeping the Sabbath as the Jews do, aren’t you denying Christ as they do? (I know that sounds harsh, I apologize for that but I don’t know any other way to ask.)

Part Three: The day. Catholics, Jews, and SDAs believe that Saturday IS the Sabbath and was meant for God in his Trinitarian form. However, the Saturday worship intrinsically denies the event of the Resurrection. Sunday worship IS the symbol of the Resurrection of the Lord and Savior, even Jews recognize this.
SDAs are the only Christians to this day who worship the Risen Christ on Saturday.

There were only two covenants made with us, God’s people. One as Jews and one as Christians. The SDA doctrine of Saturday worship seems to linger in the middle.

I’m vexed on how to reconcile that in my mind.

 

[Friedrich]

Dear Happilycatholic

You said:

I get hung up on what it is not because it is not about Christ’s Passion and Resurrection as that had not been revealed and it couldn’t have been the reason for the Sabbath and God did not state it as the reason for the Sabbath.

The Sabbath never has been about Christ’s resurrection only:
In Gen. 2:2 we read: By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.’’ Originally it was a memorial to remember the Creator; `holy’ means set aside for sacred purposes – it is also a day to build your relationship with God (before and after sin came to earth). It is a sign of sanctification -- Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord make them holy.’’ Ezekiel 20:12

In Hebrews 4 Paul talks about the Sabbath-rest we go into as a result of being saved.
Please remember that salvation is not merely the resurrection. It is Christ’s life, death, resurrection, mediation in Heaven as our High Priest, return to this earth, destruction of sin and sinners in hellfire, resurrecting the dead saints, and restoring this earth to its Edenic state once more It is a total package.

You said:

By keeping the Sabbath as the Jews do, aren’t you denying Christ as they do? (I know that sounds harsh, I apologize for that but I don’t know any other way to ask.)

The Jews did NOT accept Christ as Messiah because they were looking for an earthly, political saviour from Roman oppression, and Christ came to change their hearts and restore their broken relationship with Him. The Pharisees rejected Christ because He showed their religion to be mere tradition, not a living personal experience with God. So their Sabbath-keeping had become a burden, one of many deeds that earned you points with God – they had over 1000 rules about how not to break the Sabbath! But the Sabbath was about Christ, the Creator and Christ, the re-Creator, about finding rest from burdens and cares, about finding rest from the guilt of sin. This they did not want.

I keep the Sabbath because Jesus asked me to obey ALL his commandments, Mat. 5:17-19, as proof of my gratitude for His free gift of salvation.

Just curious – why are you so happy to keep 9 commandments, but feel that the one we should `remember’ is of the devil or the Jews?

You said:

However, the Saturday worship intrinsically denies the event of the Resurrection. Sunday worship IS the symbol of the Resurrection of the Lord and Savior, even Jews recognize this…

HOW does Saturday worship deny the Resurrection? Jesus Himself worked’ on Friday to procure our salvation, then He rested’ on Sabbath in a work well done. He `rose’ on Sunday to continue His work, firstly on earth, but more fully in Heaven as our Great High Priest. This does not deny the resurrection, but merely sees it as part of the process of salvation. In fact, none of the early disciples and apostles honoured the resurrection day above any other day – that came a few hundred years later!

You said:
SDAs are the only Christians to this day who worship the Risen Christ on Saturday

SDA’s are NOT the only Christians who worship the Fallen, Risen and Returning saviour on Saturday. Check your history books – THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FAITHFUL SABBATHKEEPING CHRISTIANS ON THIS EARTH SINCE ADAM AND EVE TILL TODAY. We are nothing new, and don’t claim to be new in this matter – we see ourselves as a remnant, something left over, from what has gone before. Check Sabbath keeping in north Africa in Ethiopia, till a few hundred years ago when the Catholic Church wiped it out there; check Sabbath keeping in West-Africa under the Ashanti peoples, try Scotland, Europe and many other countries, There have always been faithful Sabbathkeepers!

Wow, I am tired now. Thank you for asking such important questions in such a loving spirit. If I did not answer what you asked, please excuse.

Have a blessed Sunday,

Friedrich

 

[happilycatholic]

Dear Happilycatholic

You said:

The Sabbath never has been about Christ’s resurrection only:

In Gen. 2:2 we read: By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.’’ Originally it was a memorial to remember the Creator; `holy’ means set aside for sacred purposes – it is also a day to build your relationship with God (before and after sin came to earth). It is a sign of sanctification -- Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord make them holy.’’ Ezekiel 20:12

I’m sorry, you still haven’t made the connection with the risen Christ in the what you said above.

In Hebrews 4 Paul talks about the Sabbath-rest we go into as a result of being saved. To me this is saying because we are saved by Christ, the call to glorify the Creator by resting is fulfilled. Still nothing about worshipping Christ on that day.

Please remember that salvation is not merely the resurrection. It is Christ’s life, death, resurrection, mediation in Heaven as our High Priest, return to this earth, destruction of sin and sinners in hellfire, resurrecting the dead saints, and restoring this earth to its Edenic state once more It is a total package.** But in honor of that, we worship Christ as Lord and Savior. Saturday worship is honoring “rest”, not the rest of those things, they had not or are yet to come.**

You said:

The Jews did NOT accept Christ as Messiah because they were looking for an earthly, political saviour from Roman oppression, and Christ came to change their hearts and restore their broken relationship with Him. The Pharisees rejected Christ because He showed their religion to be mere tradition, not a living personal experience with God. So their Sabbath-keeping had become a burden, one of many deeds that earned you points with God – they had over 1000 rules about how not to break the Sabbath! But the Sabbath was about Christ, the Creator and Christ, the re-Creator, about finding rest from burdens and cares, about finding rest from the guilt of sin. This they did not want.

I keep the Sabbath because Jesus asked me to obey ALL his commandments, Mat. 5:17-19, as proof of my gratitude for His free gift of salvation.

Just curious – why are you so happy to keep 9 commandments, but feel that the one we should `remember’ is of the devil or the Jews?

Wow, didn’t see that one coming. That’s a heavy charge that I don’t recall in my post but here goes…

I do keep the other Commandment. Just as I’ve posted here before, the Lord our Savior is written into the Fourth Commandment (on our hearts) this way:

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

You said:

HOW does Saturday worship deny the Resurrection? Jesus Himself worked’ on Friday to procure our salvation, then He rested’ on Sabbath in a work well done. He `rose’ on Sunday to continue His work, firstly on earth, but more fully in Heaven as our Great High Priest. This does not deny the resurrection, but merely sees it as part of the process of salvation. In fact, none of the early disciples and apostles honoured the resurrection day above any other day – that came a few hundred years later!

SDA’s are NOT the only Christians who worship the Fallen, Risen and Returning saviour on Saturday. Check your history books – THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FAITHFUL SABBATHKEEPING CHRISTIANS ON THIS EARTH SINCE ADAM AND EVE TILL TODAY. We are nothing new, and don’t claim to be new in this matter – we see ourselves as a remnant, something left over, from what has gone before. Check Sabbath keeping in north Africa in Ethiopia, till a few hundred years ago when the Catholic Church wiped it out there; check Sabbath keeping in West-Africa under the Ashanti peoples, try Scotland, Europe and many other countries, There have always been faithful Sabbathkeepers!

Wow, I am tired now. Thank you for asking such important questions in such a loving spirit. If I did not answer what you asked, please excuse.

Have a blessed Sunday,

Friedrich

**Thank you Friedrich. Even though we have a difference of opinion I hope you don’t think I believe Saturday worship is of the devil, I appreciate your point of view and find it very good to know in relation to others’ beliefs. I have some very dear SDA friends and while they won’t step foot in my church I’ve been to theirs plenty of times for a Celebrate Recovery program my friend is involved with and a friend’s baptism. I think God hears “Amen” wherever we are. **

 

[RobGentner]

Thank you Friedrich. Even though we have a difference of opinion I hope you don’t think I believe Saturday worship is of the devil, Powerful Christian’s Motto: Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says… ‘Oh hell…he’s awake!!’ . I have some very dear SDA friends and while they won’t step foot in my church I’ve been to theirs plenty of times for a Celebrate Recovery program my friend is involved with and a friend’s baptism. I think God hears “Amen” wherever we are.** **

**Hi happily, :tiphat: **

**Even though you and I have our difference of Opinion I hope that you soon realize Saturday worship is in fact of the Devil! Jesus came and fullfilled the OT! There is no reason for cults to start the process all over again except to be marked with the sign of the beast. Sabbith worship! on Saturdays! REMEMBER: “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread – which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that One greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. **For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” --Matt. 12:1-8

[SIGN] **Powerful Christian’s Motto: **

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** Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says… ‘Oh hell…he’s awake!!’**
[/SIGN]

God loves everyone even sinner like us. Lets help the lost shep come back to the flock not let them think they are correct while lost. There is a beast running around like a Lion!
**

Happilycatholic:
I have some very dear SDA friends and while they won’t step foot in my church I’ve been to theirs plenty of times for a Celebrate Recovery program my friend is involved with and a friend’s baptism

**“Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation, for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.” – George Washington ****

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**God Bless every one! **

 

[happilycatholic]

**Hi happily, :tiphat: **

**Even though you and I have our difference of Opinion I hope that you soon realize Saturday worship is in fact of the Devil! Jesus came and fullfilled the OT! There is no reason for cults to start the process all over again except to be marked with the sign of the beast. Sabbith worship! on Saturdays! REMEMBER: “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread – which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that One greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. **For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” --Matt. 12:1-8

[sign] Powerful Christian’s Motto:

Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says… 'Oh hell…he’s awake!!'
[/sign]

God loves everyone even sinner like us. Lets help the lost shep come back to the flock not let them think they are correct while lost. There is a beast running around like a Lion!

**God Bless every one! **

YOU AND I WILL NOT BE FRIENDS MUCH LONGER IF YOU INSERT YOUR OWN RHETORIC INTO MY POSTS AND TRY TO PASS THEM OFF AS PART OF MY POSTS!!!

THAT IS FRAUD AND IF YOU DO IT AGAIN I’LL REPORT YOU TO THE MODS!!!

 

[Ads]

I am curious why sunday rather than saturday is considered the sabboth. My girlfriend believes people celebrate the sabboth in error and that it really should be friday night to saturday night like it was in old testament.

the only biblical evidence I can find is:

This is really very little if any evidence justifying sunday as being the sabboth. This just alludes to them breaking bread on sunday and to lay something aside. It really doesn’t tell us to change the sabboth day from saturday to sunday anywhere and does not make this clear at all.

Maybe the disciples kept the sabboth but in addition did this on sunday as well?

Sabbath ( Saterday ) has always been the day of reast it cant be changed. even if people chose another day it wont change the fact. so follow man or God, your choice the Jewish seremonial laws were done away with at the cross not one of his Commandments, do we say the 9 commandments now?

 

[myroneffing]

Dear Friedrich,

I said, “He expects us to live moral and upright lives as we wait in hope for the revelation of Christ to all of humanity.” We can use the commandments to check up on ourselves, as far as they deal with morality, but it doesn’t mean we “observe” them as if we were Jews. I.e. we have a different covenant. And I’m not talking about earning our way to heaven by works, which is a rather silly idea which Catholics also don’t believe. We are saved by grace. But after grace, should we go back to the pigpen? NO!