why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[Protestant101]

Hi Dj,

Welcome to Creation 101!
**When you ask a question do not dare to impose your restrictions on the answer. :tsktsk: Who do you think you are? :takethat: Now pay attention and learn something! **

Any questions, Grasshopper?

There is nothing to learn in this post; except to show the world one more reason why I would never in a million years become a Catholic. Maybe you have been eating some of Martha’s garlic.

 

[djconklin]

djconklin thank you for your information about drinking and eating, but again; you have not answered the question about Pauls teaching not to be judged by no one in regards to the Sabbath?

Paul isn’t talking about the seventh day Sabbath.

In fact, when you consider the meaning of “en merei” you could drop that and the rest of the verse completely and it wouldn’t affect what it means for us at all.

The believers were being judged for their eating and drinking (as the caswe may be) on the days that are then mentioned. They were not being judged for keeping the days at all.

 

[djconklin]

The Bible says that God created the Sun, Moon and Stars on the fourth day

It does not. It in overly-simplistic, literalistic, wooden and naive reading of the text that makes it appear so. The sun and the moon and the stars existed long before the creation of life on this planet ever began. What God did on the 4th day is explicitly stated: to set them as signs for the seasons, days, and years, i.e., He then set the earth on its current orbit around the sun, etc…

 

[Protestant101]

No, not all teachings. Right now in this discussion just the SDA teaching that the 7th day sabbath is binding on all Christians, and that it will be a test of loyalty and fidelity to God in the last days, which if you believe we are living in right now, today would be included in that.

God bless all!!!

As I said; you continue to mistate Adventist beliefs, yet you so love to come across as an “expert” or some kind of “authority” just because you had your name on the Church books, if you ever really did - who knows what fairy tales lurk on the net?

We believe that during “the end of time” the Sabbath will become a “test” but we believe that we are living “in the last days” right now, and if you really knew Adventist beliefs as well as you say, you would not try to pass off this falsehood that we say now the Sabbath is the mark of the beast. That is yet to come.

You would make a good “Protestant…” that is, as in Jonathan Edwards. How you love to dangle them by your little web, and smile with your deceiving little “God bless all!!” . Even now, as we speak, (write) your “Church” is very busy insinuating herself into the political affairs of many nations, and vigorously advocating Sunday laws, and proving Adventists right.

I will definitely be posting my findings on your questions on the internet - but I am unsure about coming back here to do it. The insults that have been flying are indefensible, and I am sick of you telling me how much truth you have, with the kinds of comments you give credence to here by your reactions to them. I have concluded that you don’t belong to a true church. It is simply another anti-Adventist, Protestant-hating cult. I can almost feel the love as you lower the whip.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Paul isn’t talking about the seventh day Sabbath.

In fact, when you consider the meaning of “en merei” you could drop that and the rest of the verse completely and it wouldn’t affect what it means for us at all.

The believers were being judged for their eating and drinking (as the caswe may be) on the days that are then mentioned. They were not being judged for keeping the days at all.

Gabriel of 12
Colosians 2; 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.

So, never mind when Paul states Let no one, then pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink…OR with regard to a festival…OR…new moon…OR sabbath?

Granted, Paul is not giving specifics about how not to practice a sabbath that is not in the context. Paul covers many items here and ends with the OR sabbath, indicating ( no need to go on specifics of a sabbath), let no one pass judgment on you in regards to and or a sabbath.

How you relate this compact passage of verse 16 only to just food and drink does not equate with the total of subjects mentioned and the issues of many false teachers which includes a variety of subject matters, not just food and drink.

It would be hard for me to just drop words from the bible of what Paul is relating to an important matter of false teachings.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12
Colosians 2; 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.

This is the subject matter, if I may conclude in vs.17? These are shadows of things to come, the reality belongs to Christ.

These regulations that have surfaced among false teachers, Paul addresses them head on. His statements not only deal with his present time. Paul is teaching us also from an eschatology view of the end times (Shadow of things to come), that false teachers will also come Judging you (Chrisitans) about food, drink, new moon, or sabbath. Paul is stating under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to all generation Christians who belong to the body of Jesus Christ (this is also a topic here) LET NO MAN PASS JUDGEMENT ON YOU ON THESE MATTERS, OR SABBATH.

I do understand where you are coming from in regards to food and drink. The point Paul is teaching if not informing, is that in the end times the observance of regulations is what is referred to here is a shadow of the things to come. In other words, in the end times also, Christians will be judged by man in regards to food, drink, moon, festival, and or SABBATH. Just like what SDA’s practice today fulfilling Pauls warning by “teaching” (pass judgement) Christians to honor the Sabbath according to their standards. For SDA’s do not honor the biblical Sabbath truly.

Now comes the part about being a part of the body of Jesus Christ. Understanding Pauls teachings about the body of Jesus Christ and how the law cannot convict the Spirit. All this will make perfect sense, through these apostolic revelations that are believed by Catholics these 2000 years now. Your new christian doctrine introduction of practicing a unbiblical sabbath here in the late 18th century is very new to Catholic standards who follow Apostolic biblical and Traditional teachings.

Peace be with you

 

[djconklin]

So, never mind when Paul states Let no one, then pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink…OR with regard to a festival…OR…new moon…OR sabbath?

Another way of saying what Paul said:

Let no one judge you in when you eat and drink on the feasts OR new moon OR ceremonial sabbaths (the day of atonement and the blowing of trumpets.

There is no concern about what (matters) the believers ate or drank. Your first clue that this is so is that there are no drink laws.

Secondly, you are ignoring what the words “with regard to” mean. Older English translations had it the more obvious “in part of”.

As long as you keep using a flawed interpretation and not the Greek translation you will never understand what Paul was saying.

This is the subject matter, if I may conclude in vs.17? These are shadows of things to come, the reality belongs to Christ.

The last clause is completely wrong. It is quite simply “but the body of Christ.” As one scholar noted, without contradiction from other scholars in the field, this is the positive counterpart to “let no man judge.” What Paul is saying: don’t let the outsiders push you around on these things, let the body of Christ (i.e., the church) decide these matters.

All of these points are quite clearly stated in my study at 666man.net//Colossians_2_16-17_By_David_Conklin/colintro.html

SDA’s practice today fulfilling Pauls warning by “teaching” (pass judgement) Christians to honor the Sabbath according to their standards.

No Bible believing SDA judges (i.e., condemns in the Scriptural sense) anyone else for any sin they may be committing. All we can do is to warn people so that they will know what is a sin.

I haven’t judged anyone, this is a red-herring argument and it had no business being mentioned.

 

[happilycatholic]

I will definitely be posting my findings on your questions on the internet - but I am unsure about coming back here to do it.

Oh my gosh! You did not just say, “I know the answers but I’m not telling you”.

Who is being childish?

Please, somebody put their big kid pants on and answer the questions.

 

[djconklin]

You did not just say, “I know the answers but I’m not telling you”.

No, he did not. This thread has wandered around quite a bit.

 

[happilycatholic]

No, he did not. This thread has wandered around quite a bit.

I’m sorry, I guess I don’t get what you’re saying.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

There’s no importance when you have gutted it of meaning. The creation literally happened but that’s not the way to read it. obviously there was a sun before the 4th day–otherwise there’d be no light and no darkness.
**
Hi dj

Did you have a bad day? don’t be angry! That doesn’t prove anything, but that yuo have a bad temper and bad manners. Don’t you agree? When you say obviously there was a sun before it was made on the 4th day what do you mean? You do realize that the guy writing this story was being told a tale that was 4,000 years old, right?**

Asd I very carefully explained in my edited post I had typed in the wrong numbers into Bible works 7.0 and posted the texts that were two verses short of what you had given. Your insult is not warranted. Have a good day. Good bye.

**So rather than say: “Hey, I made a mistake buddy I was wrong. sorry!” You want to defend your pride with rightist indignation? Come on, you are bigger than that! **

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Another way of saying what Paul said:

Let no one judge you in when you eat and drink on the feasts OR new moon OR ceremonial sabbaths (the day of atonement and the blowing of trumpets.

There is no concern about what (matters) the believers ate or drank. Your first clue that this is so is that there are no drink laws.

Secondly, you are ignoring what the words “with regard to” mean. Older English translations had it the more obvious “in part of”.

As long as you keep using a flawed interpretation and not the Greek translation you will never understand what Paul was saying.

**Gabriel of 12:
I will have you know that the interpetation I gave you in part in my own words comes from a 4th century Catholic theologian, how early is your interpretation of this context from Col.2:16? I can hear you knocking, but your new Sabbath teaching falls under this warning from Paul. And I am sorry, I cannot drop words from scripture, or translations to fit a new Christian gospel teaching other than Jesus and his apostles gave the Catholic church today.

P.S have you ever read any scholary work on Pauls teachings of eschatology? This topic might be of interest to you from this context.**

djconklin;
The last clause is completely wrong. It is quite simply “but the body of Christ.” As one scholar noted, without contradiction from other scholars in the field, this is the positive counterpart to “let no man judge.” What Paul is saying: don’t let the outsiders push you around on these things, let the body of Christ (i.e., the church) decide these matters.

Gabriel of 12
I dont know what could be wrong about it. My statement and question about the body of Jesus Christ was addressed to you not the context sir, I mearly asked do you have Paul’s understanding of body of Jesus Christ? If you do, the rest of the teaching will make perfect sense, if you dont, then you will have to twist the scriptures to fit your other gospel teaching. So please dont twist my words also as you do the scriptures.

djconklin:
All of these points are quite clearly stated in my study at 666man.net//Colossians_2_16-17_By_David_Conklin/colintro.html

Gabriel of 12;
Tell me, do you fare more than the first 400 years of Christian theologians and Doctors of scripture in the Catholic church? including those Catholic saints directly taught from the apostles themselves? Does your commentaries override these great Martyrs for the Christian Catholic faith? I would point you to them first, read them, study them, and then I will read your commentary. At this juncture thus far, your late study interpretation of scripture??? For charity reasons, I will end it here.

djconklin;
No Bible believing SDA judges (i.e., condemns in the Scriptural sense) anyone else for any sin they may be committing. All we can do is to warn people so that they will know what is a sin.

I haven’t judged anyone, this is a red-herring argument and it had no business being mentioned.

**Gabriel of 12:
Can you reread my post, I was referring to what Paul was teaching about not letting no one judge you in paranthesis. In speaking about your newly founded Sabbath “teaching”.

Now I will say this from what I have heard other SDA’s teach publicly, and you tell me if this is not passing judgement? “That the Catholic church has the mark of the beast because she does not honor the Sabbath the way SDA’s do”, Do you deny this type of passing judgement teaching upon the Catholic church from SDA’s? Sounds like Pauls teaching is coming to pass from Col.2:16.**

Truth need not get angry, Truth is.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

&c…&c…&c…
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

This verse echoes the 4th commandment from the “OT.”

**Hi dj,

Excuse me, I am sure a lot of you have noticed that I am not as smart as some of you here. I just got confused my that post.

I know what an echo is but how did you get an echo from Revelation 14:7 and the 4th commandment to keep holy the sabbath? What is being echoed? I know that Rev 14:7 doesn’t sound close to an echo of the 4th commandment. Did I mess something? Are you joking, knowing that some of us aren’t as smart as you? of did you mistype again?

I was also wondering about the fact that all the solemn feasts of the Jews were designated by the name “Sabbath,’ although they did not fall upon the seventh day (Lev. 23:32 and elsewhere). It seems they were kept almost in the same manner as the weekly Sabbath. Plus, the first and last day of each festival (which lasted many days) is also called a Sabbath because both were equally solemn. Here belongs the .second Sabbath after the first (deuteroprton)” (mentioned in Lk. 6:1), I might have been called that because it followed next after the feast of the Passover (which is the first from the second [apo tes deuteras proton] in the computation of Pentecost, as the great Scaliger holds); or because it was the last day of the feast. Sinceit was in order the posterior and second Sabbath, so in dignity it would have been equal to the first or great Sabbath as the first day of the feast, which was solemn on account of the public assembly congregated on it. So maybe you should call it the first secondarily repeated sabbath? The latter bight be more agreeable to Beza and others. Fourth, the Sabbath is also taken synecdochically for the week itself, which the seventh day concluded: “I fast twice in the week” “nisteua dis tou sabbatou” (Lk. 18:12); also mia sabbatn (1 Cor. 16:2) is put for the first day of the week. So it seems like sunday or saturday or a week can be the sabbath right? Or didIi misunderstand? I hate it when I do that!**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

There is nothing to learn in this post; except to show the world one more reason why I would never in a million years become a Catholic. Maybe you have been eating some of Martha’s garlic.

**
Hi Prot 101,
I can give you another one protestant 101. And this one is from deep in my heart. Why you couldn’t become a Catholic: “Because you have no idea at all of what even being a christian is, much less a real follower of Christ” You don’t even understand your own so called faith. I thought that you were a coward and won’t defend your beliefs. Then it hit me “He doesn’t even believe what he is saying!”
He has no concept of any SDA or Catholic beliefs. He had some papers handed to him in church and rather than investigate and learn about his own and others faiths He only read the “hate Catholics and Prophet White will bless you with a golden calf” r some such nonense. You havn’ta chance to become a catholic nor even a good SDA, both requires commitment and faith. You appear to be lacking in both IMO!

I still love you!

Bye!**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

If it is good for the goose then it is good for the gander too.

Now chew out Pat for making the same rule.

**Pat you stop it !:tsktsk: Play nice! Don’t make me come there and scold you! I can’t leave you two along for five minutes.:slapfight:

There you go dj all done! I never heard anything so ridicules! And Pat I better not hear about you goosing dj’s gander again. You prevert! **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Oh my gosh! You did not just say, “I know the answers but I’m not telling you”.

Who is being childish?

Please, somebody put their big kid pants on and answer the questions.

**Tanya, I have to stand at yous side and say AMEN! Now don’t “Hit me!”

This thread is strange. People not wanting to discuss, just argue over and over the same points. **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

No, he did not. This thread has wandered around quite a bit.

**dj, he said he would post them on the internet might not come back here! **

 

[djconklin]

I will have you know that the interpetation I gave you in part in my own words comes from a 4th century Catholic theologian,

And his name would be? Was it too hard to read?

 

[Ubong]

The church carries her tradition directly from the apostles? St. Paul in his letter to the Thesselonians says we should practice all that he taught either by letters or by words of mouth. It therefore implies that some of the teaching of the Roman Catholicism is based on the verbal teaching of the apostles and the church through its unbroken succession has been able to hold to these teachings.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

**Pat you stop it !:tsktsk: Play nice! Don’t make me come there and scold you! I can’t leave you two along for five minutes.:slapfight:

There you go dj all done! I never heard anything so ridicules! And Pat I better not hear about you goosing dj’s gander again. You prevert! **

Thank you very much Realcatholicgk!! I needed that.

You have done well disciplining me and fulfilling dj’s request to you…you are something else!!!