why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

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well…you haven’t answered Question 3 with scriptures as I asked. So I’m left to conclude from your answer that that belief is UN-Biblical
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Well, since you cannot use only Scripture to prove monogamy and the Trinity, and that it’s not right to hold slaves I can only conclude that your belief is UN-Biblical.
Lev.23:3 is in the OT not the NT
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I never said it was in the NT–that’s a red herring and very dishonest argument.

I’m a whole Bible Christian–I didn’t fall for the Marcion heresy of splitting the Bible in half.

When Peter (the 1st Pope, remember?) wrote “Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” he was citing an “OT” text.

Christ cited two “OT” texts when He said that we should love God with all our hearts, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves.

When Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. the “these things” is a reference to the “OT.”

In Revelation there are over 2,500 echoes and allusions to the “OT.”

It is Satan who seeks to divide and conquer–not Christ. He heals the wounds and binds us together.
 
Originally Posted by djconklin
So, now we can ask how much further back was it known? We can also ask if it really makes sense to institute for the Jews at Sinai a memorial to something that happened long before there ever was a Jew?
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Still unanswered,
 
djconklin said:
Well, since you cannot use only Scripture to prove monogamy and the Trinity, and that it’s not right to hold slaves I can only conclude that your belief is UN-Biblical.
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The difference is that SDAs claim the Bible Only as their rule of faith. Therefore, you cannot theologically believe something that cannot be proven using the Bible Alone.

Now let’s summarize:
  1. Your denomination says that from Creation to Moses all God’s people kept the seventh day holy.
  2. Pat has said, "okay, using the Bible Alone (your rules, not ours) prove it.
  3. You say it can’t be proven from the Bible Alone, but that’s okay because neither can the Trinity or monogamism.
  4. Conclusion: either you must give up the Bible Alone as your rule of faith because none of these things can be proven using the Bible Alone, OR you must admit that there is no reason to believe that from Creation to Moses God’s people kept the Seventh Day.
Now, the idolatrous Sumerians and Babylonians abstained from both work and play on the seventh day, and there is historic proof of that. But they abstained from it because it was a bad luck day and the gods would smite them for not observing them.

If you wanted to make the argument that Abraham coming from Sumeria (Ur of the Chaldees) observed the seventh day based on this Sumerian practice, that would probably work - unfortunately for your argument - but only to the extent that it would show Abraham as an idolator prior to his relationship with God.

Marsha
 
djconklin said:
I never said it was in the NT–that’s a red herring and very dishonest argument.
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I said that there is nowhere in the NT where God commands anyone to keep holy the first day of the week…and for that matter there is no where in the NT where He commands anyone to keep holy the 7th day of the week…you replied with Lev. 23:3.

Perhaps I’m jumping ahead since you have not addressed Quetions 4-6 with scpriptures from the Bible…so I’ll wait.

God bless all!!!
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
I really don’t know who made that rule, but SDAs have been saying that worshipping God on Sunday is UN-Biblical because nowhere in the NT does God give a command to worship on Sunday.
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Hi Patrick; I have checked back a couple of pages to see if I could find it - I must have missed it. I was wondering if you answered my question about this point of your’s that I have quoted? From what I can see, you are totally misunderstanding what SDAs say about Sunday worship, as well as what your own church teaches about our teachings on “Sunday.” Can you start by telling us where in our official teachings that we say “worshipping God on Sunday is unBiblical?”

I am working on a reply to your 6 questions - but it could be a few days or more before I have those notes ready. That’s not because I find it difficult to reply to, it is related to being very busy. Being a Dad always comes first in my books. Thanks for your patience.
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
And so are my 6 Questions.

And just to be a baby about it…I asked first!

God bless all!!!
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You keep doing this to people - leading them into some challenge on “who asked first” types of stuff. This is called “baited questioning” where you try to control all aspects of the questioning and answering so that it leads to whatever your main point is here. There is no room to be a “baby” about anything when it comes to discussing Bible truth. There are so many reasons people “refuse” to answer all questions on an internet forum - I feel this is totally unfair of you to do to people. It would be nice if you stopped being so fishy about your real point here, just tell us all what it means if indeed you could ever prove that not all or any of the 7 creation days are 24 hours? (regarding your question 1) What do you say about that, in regards to the seventh-day Sabbath? I am faithfully preparing a response to your atheistic attack on the Bible, and on Bible truth, but I don’t feel like you will be very accepting of anything I have to say, judging by your responses to answers so far…more to come later…:mad:
 
Protestant101 said:
You keep doing this to people - leading them into some challenge on “who asked first” types of stuff. This is called “baited questioning” where you try to control all aspects of the questioning and answering so that it leads to whatever your main point is here. There is no room to be a “baby” about anything when it comes to discussing Bible truth. There are so many reasons people “refuse” to answer all questions on an internet forum - I feel this is totally unfair of you to do to people. It would be nice if you stopped being so fishy about your real point here, just tell us all what it means if indeed you could ever prove that not all or any of the 7 creation days are 24 hours? (regarding your question 1) What do you say about that, in regards to the seventh-day Sabbath? I am faithfully preparing a response to your atheistic attack on the Bible, and on Bible truth, but I don’t feel like you will be very accepting of anything I have to say, judging by your responses to answers so far…more to come later…:mad:
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Waaa…Waaaa…Waaaa…oops, I mean, Ok I’ll stop being a baby!!

Hi Protestant101,

The only thing I bait is a fish hook (which I really enjoy)!!

I’ve answered questions over and over. I only ask that those who claim to believe these "clearly obvious Biblical truths from the Bible only…show me in the Bible the answers to my 6 Questions.

I’ve given my answers and my thoughts about the creation story, and the 7th day of creation, in this thread…answering your question as to what it all meant to me…it’s back there…you can find it.

I have not tried to control the conversation, questions, nor the discussions on this thread. I have waited patiently in between other discussions going on here on this thread. I only have 6 Questions for the SDAs, and those questions in no way prohibit or control any other discussions on this thread.

I look forwared to your answers to my 6 Questions…but I don’t know whether I will agree or disagree with them until I see them and read them. So once the answers are provided, by anyone who feels they can answer them, then we’ll talk about agreement and disagreement.

And please do me a favor and get these answers back as soon as possible…I’ve got RobGentner losing his patience and breathing down my neck…and I sure don’t want to tick him off…if you know what I mean!!!:eek:

We are already how many pages past those questions in this thread and still only Friedrich has answered the first one. How many more pages will pass?

I will wait.

God bless all!!!
 
Protestant101 said:
Hi Patrick; I have checked back a couple of pages to see if I could find it - I must have missed it. I was wondering if you answered my question about this point of your’s that I have quoted? From what I can see, you are totally misunderstanding what SDAs say about Sunday worship, as well as what your own church teaches about our teachings on “Sunday.” Can you start by telling us where in our official teachings that we say “worshipping God on Sunday is unBiblical?”
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Ok…I’ll accept your word for it that the SDA official teachings say that worshipping God on Sunday is Biblical. That is good to know!!
Protestant101 said:
I am working on a reply to your 6 questions - but it could be a few days or more before I have those notes ready. That’s not because I find it difficult to reply to, it is related to being very busy. Being a Dad always comes first in my books. Thanks for your patience.
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I appreciate you working on a response and you are more than welcome for my patience!!!

God bless all!!!
 
Conclusion: either you must give up the Bible Alone as your rule of faith because none of these things can be proven using the Bible Alone,
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The conclusion is false because of a false understanding of what it means to base one’s belief on the Bible alone.

As noted by another poster it is legitimate to use outside sources to understand the Bible. I then named some: maps, archaeology, lexicons, etc…

Read the teachings of Jesus and you’ll find Him appealing to nature as an object lesson. Is His teachings to be rejected because He didn’t use the Bible alone?
You say it can’t be proven from the Bible Alone, but that’s okay because neither can the Trinity or monogamism.
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Your conclusion doesn’t follow from that. It’s the understanding of what “Bible Alone” means that is false.

By applying reason and logic to the Bible we can prove that the doctrine of the Trinity and the practice of monoganism (and that to hold slaves is wrong) can be proven to be biblical. Therefore, by using reason and logic (and the facts found by Dr. William Mead Jones) we can prove that Sabbath-keeping can be dated back to Creation. It is only by ignoring basic facts–the Sabbath was celebrated a month before the Law was given–and not applying common sense–so how far back before that was the Sabbath known?–can we “conclude” that the Sabbath didn’t exist before it was given as a law at Sinai.
 
Originally Posted by djconklin
Still unanswered,
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And so are my 6 Questions.

And just to be a baby about it…I asked first!
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Even the Pharisees didn’t play that childish game. My questions expose that your question don’t have a solid foundation.
 
djconklin said:
The conclusion is false because of a false understanding of what it means to base one’s belief on the Bible alone.

As noted by another poster it is legitimate to use outside sources to understand the Bible. I then named some: maps, archaeology, lexicons, etc…

Read the teachings of Jesus and you’ll find Him appealing to nature as an object lesson. Is His teachings to be rejected because He didn’t use the Bible alone?

Your conclusion doesn’t follow from that. It’s the understanding of what “Bible Alone” means that is false.

By applying reason and logic to the Bible we can prove that the doctrine of the Trinity and the practice of monoganism (and that to hold slaves is wrong) can be proven to be biblical. Therefore, by using reason and logic (and the facts found by Dr. William Mead Jones) we can prove that Sabbath-keeping can be dated back to Creation. It is only by ignoring basic facts–the Sabbath was celebrated a month before the Law was given–and not applying common sense–so how far back before that was the Sabbath known?–can we “conclude” that the Sabbath didn’t exist before it was given as a law at Sinai.
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So how come it bothers you so much that the Catholic Church applies reason and logic to the Bible, and when they do, their interpretations are deemed UN-biblical by you and others?

But see…here is how I get sidetracked, so please remember there are 5 other Questions still outstanding.

God bless all!!!
 
Perhaps I’m jumping ahead since you have not addressed Quetions 4-6 with scpriptures from the Bible…
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Thank you for conceding that I answered the first three. Now, I’ll look at 4-6 to see what I can do for you there.
 
So how come it bothers you so much that the Catholic Church applies reason and logic to the Bible, and when they do, their interpretations are deemed UN-biblical by you and others?
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I did?!?
 
djconklin said:
Even the Pharisees didn’t play that childish game. My questions expose that your question don’t have a solid foundation.
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Ok…I told Protestant101 that I would stop being a baby (as hard as that is for me):o So no more childish games. Let’s go back to being adults about this. I asked 6 Questions, in an adult manner, and I await 6 adult answers, in an adult manner.

And my questions expose that your solid Biblical beliefs are based on something other than a solid Biblical foundation. And that is my quess as to why you will not, or cannot, answer them with scriptures.

But I am willing to wait and see what answers, if any, are provided.

God bless all!!!
 
I, a Christian from the pagans, who was never in the desert, never agreed to that covenant, and am not required to keep it!
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A Christian is one who is grafted into the living stock which descended from Abraham, Adam, and Christ.

The New Covenant is given in the “OT”:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 
djconklin said:
Thank you for conceding that I answered the first three. Now, I’ll look at 4-6 to see what I can do for you there.
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Forgive me, but I only saw an answer for Question 3. Please refer me to the Post numbers for your answers to Questions 1 and 2.

Thanks!!

God bless all!!!
 
And my questions expose that your solid Biblical beliefs are based on something other than a solid Biblical foundation. And that is my quess as to why you will not, or cannot, answer them with scriptures.
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Artificial constraint as my first question to you exposed.
 
If you believe that each day of the creation story is a literal 24 hour period, how do you explain there being morning and evening for 3 days before the sun and moon were created?
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Who said that the sun and the moon were created on the 4th day? How do you explain it? Is creation a myth?

BTW, only answer the questions using the Bible alone.
 
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