why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[djconklin]

what did they “know” about the sabbath? that there is a day called sabbath or that there is an obligation to keep the sabbath?

At this late date there is no way we can determine exactly what they knew about the Sabbath. However, the mere fact that they knew of the name of that day eliminates the ideas that the Sabbath was first known at Sinai and that it was only known to the Jews.

It is more likely that they knew about the Sabbath and that they had been keeping it. When they ceased to do so is unknown.

I answered a bunch of your questions and you have yet to respond to them and in previous responses some that you did respond to weren’t very nice responses.

im sorry i don’t remember. If you answered about how you observe the sabbath and what is done if you don’t observe it, please tell me that page or paragraph number and i don’t remember having offended you either, if you could point it out as well so that i apologize for it.

Not you; my response was to a different poster.

 

[djconklin]

Actually, there are at least three on here with unanswered questions. Poor Patrick would be dust by now if he were holding his breath.

He has been told why they cannot be answered.

 

[happilycatholic]

With all due respect, the simple fact of the matter is that the SDA religion was “invented” by persons in the middle part of the 19th century.

Prove otherwise.

 

[happilycatholic]

He has been told why they cannot be answered.

I would think there should not be a question that you cannot answer with the very Bible which by the nature of your faith, you claim holds every answer. Sola Scriptura is part of your doctrine. It is either sound and you can provide the answers or it is not and you cannot.

I just don’t understand your conundrum here.

 

[djconklin]

I would think there should not be a question that you cannot answer with the very Bible which by the nature of your faith, you claim holds every answer. Sola Scriptura is part of your doctrine. It is either sound and you can provide the answers or it is not and you cannot.

I just don’t understand your conundrum here.

Given the concept of “Sola Scriptura” that some hold in their heads is false we cannot perform to that artificial, unbiblical standard.

With all due respect, the simple fact of the matter is that the SDA religion was “invented” by persons in the middle part of the 19th century.

Prove otherwise.

How does one prove otherwise a claim that isn’t true? You can’t prove a negative. Nothing was “invented.”

With all due respect, the simple fact of the matter is that the SDA religion was not “invented” by persons in the middle part of the 19th century.

 

[inJESUS]

djconklin, you surely know you can believe in whatever you want, but at least let us understand by answering our questions. it is the first time i talk to an SDA, we don’t have any in my country, and these questions are really basic since they’re the first to come to mind, How do you observe the sabbath, and what happens if you don’t, and do you observe the circumcision law as well?

 

[happilycatholic]

Given the concept of “Sola Scriptura” that some hold in their heads is false we cannot perform to that artificial, unbiblical standard.

Humor us. We’re open to suggestion. You are not even trying.

How does one prove otherwise a claim that isn’t true? You can’t prove a negative. Nothing was “invented.”

**You’ve given me that pat answer before. Now give me the real one. Prove that it wasn’t invented. I can prove to you that the Catholic faith wasn’t invented. Prove to me that Seventh-Day Adventism has been around since Christ walked the earth (or before) and we’ll all know that it’s not doctrine defined by man. Incidentally, which is EXACTLY what you claim most of our Church doctrine established by Tradition is. That one is really confusing. You’re okay with William Miller, The Whites, let’s see Joseph Bates and a few others who formed your early church doctrine. However, when the Pope speaks, he’s the devil incarnate. **

---

I can’t even wrap my mind around this faith at all. I can’t imagine why someone would follow a faith that makes up a fundemental belief such as “Investigative Judgement” or Christ coming twice in the end times. That stuff is purely fantasy made up by a woman who claimed to have visions. And you’d better not deny she claims to be a prophet because your fundemental beliefs require you to believe it to be a part of the faith. It’s your church’s claim to ‘remnant fame’.

---

I’m sorry. I don’t mean to be uncharitable but this gets very frustrating. And I’ll tell you what, if I were looking into being a part of an SDA church and you told me you couldn’t prove to me why you are not an invented faith, I would run the other way.

---

With all due respect, the simple fact of the matter is that the SDA religion was not “invented” by persons in the middle part of the 19th century.

Then where in the world did it come from?

 

[Protestant101]

So where are we in answering these questions with Biblical scriptural support?

It is getting close to 20 pages past where I initially asked the questions below…so what it the status of answers?

Friedrich, attempted to provide an answer to this question in Post # 762. While he gave a very reasoned answer for why he believes the creation story is a literal 7 day period, he did not answer the question above.

No one else has addressed this question.

Once again, for those who are interested, there are answers being given here; , with more on the way. In particular, posts 1-5 give some good answers.

 

[djconklin]

How do you observe the sabbath, and what happens if you don’t, and do you observe the circumcision law as well?

In observing the Sabbath we do not work or pursue our own interests. We go to church, read, study the Bible, take nature walks, etc… There are no earthly penalties for not keeping the Sabbath; those ended when the theocracy ended. Circumcision is not required–it does appear to be better for health reasons.

 

[djconklin]

However, when the Pope speaks, he’s the devil incarnate.

The SDA church does not teach that bald-faced lie. Quite frankly whoever told you that should be slugged right square in the mouth and then have it washed out with soap.

Then where in the world did it come from?

From studying the Bible.

 

[inJESUS]

In observing the Sabbath we do not work or pursue our own interests. We go to church, read, study the Bible, take nature walks, etc… There are no earthly penalties for not keeping the Sabbath; those ended when the theocracy ended. Circumcision is not required–it does appear to be better for health reasons.

ok thank you. So i can safely say you do not observe it as the Torah says, and you do not abide by the penalty of not observing the law according to the Torah, and you do not include the law of circumcision of the Torah. Why do you abide by a law yet not follow how the torah tells you to observe it?

 

[djconklin]

So i can safely say you do not observe it as the Torah says,

We do.

you do not abide by the penalty of not observing the law according to the Torah

As I told you: that ended with the theocracy.

you do not include the law of circumcision of the Torah.

Actually, circumcision is a practice, not a law. Read Galatians.

 

[RobGentner]

djconklin, you surely know you can believe in whatever you want, but at least let us understand by answering our questions.

**They don’t even understand what they believe except that the Catholic Church is evil. They say we are marked with the sign of the beast because we worship on Sundays. They don’t even realize how screwed up this reasoning is. If they really wanted to worship on the Jewish Sabbath. They should use the Jewish calander. (It is now Kislev 4, 5769 on Jewish calander). **
They use our calendar which has leap year not realizing that every four years the Sabbath moves over a day. After 2,000 years what day of the week is the real sabbath that the jews worshipped on in the bible? If It isn’t important, then neither is what day of the week we worship on!
it is the first time i talk to an SDA, we don’t have any in my country,

Can we send you all of ours?

and these questions are really basic since they’re the first to come to mind, How do you observe the sabbath, and what happens if you don’t, and do you observe the circumcision law as well?

**They do what Prophet White told them to do. They don’t admit it but she wasa vegaterian and strangle most if not all of them are also! If she was a circumcised male they would be also is my belief! Their religion was only made up a couple of hundred ywears ago. It will get better as they try things that don’t work someday they may even become Catholics! That is no Joke, if they are looking for the truth and keep following stupid beliefs like the world is ending on this day or that day and they can’t get it right. Someday they might accidently read the bible and see the truth of the Catholic Church! We can only pray because many good people are SDA. I personally would hate for them all to go to hell because of their false beliefs. I pray to the Blessed Mother every day with my rosary for their conversion and redemption! Please do likewise! **

 

[Carol_Williams]

In Genesis 2:1-4 God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it. In Exodus 16 (beofre the Ten Commandements were given on Mt. Sinai) Moses gave instructions regarding the gathering of Manna on the sixth day and that none would be provided as to the rest of the Holy Sabbath unto the Lord. Exodus 20:8-11 is the 4th commandment, "remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thy shall not do any work,
thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man servent, nor thy maid servent, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is in thy gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day, were fore the LORD blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.
You will also find in Isaih 66:23 that we will worship on the Sabbath in heaven. "and it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another all flesh come to worship before ME sayeth the LORD.
All of the apostles went to the temple to worship on the Sabbath as was their custom as did Jesus.
You will find no where in the Bible that God made provision for man to change his laws.
In Matthew 24:20 Jesus while speaking about the distruction of Jerusalem (that would not occur until 70AD) "but pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. If the day was to be changed, why worry about the Sabbath?
You will find no Bible passage changing the Holy day from seventh day Sabbath to Sunday and no passage making Sunday a Holy day.
You will also find references through all the New Testaments ending in Revelations exortimg the belivers to keep Gods comandments.

 

[Protestant101]

In Genesis 2:1-4 God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it. In Exodus 16 (beofre the Ten Commandements were given on Mt. Sinai) Moses gave instructions regarding the gathering of Manna on the sixth day and that none would be provided as to the rest of the Holy Sabbath unto the Lord. Exodus 20:8-11 is the 4th commandment, "remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thy shall not do any work,
thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man servent, nor thy maid servent, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is in thy gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day, were fore the LORD blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.
You will also find in Isaih 66:23 that we will worship on the Sabbath in heaven. "and it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another all flesh come to worship before ME sayeth the LORD.
All of the apostles went to the temple to worship on the Sabbath as was their custom as did Jesus.
You will find no where in the Bible that God made provision for man to change his laws.
In Matthew 24:20 Jesus while speaking about the distruction of Jerusalem (that would not occur until 70AD) "but pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. If the day was to be changed, why worry about the Sabbath?
You will find no Bible passage changing the Holy day from seventh day Sabbath to Sunday and no passage making Sunday a Holy day.
You will also find references through all the New Testaments ending in Revelations exortimg the belivers to keep Gods comandments.

Hello Carol

You have stated a very concise, and Biblical answer here. It is so; because God said it was so. Thankyou for your contribution here. Even though some here have been asking for a “Biblical” answer, some are sure to speak out against your post. I would add too that it is not scriptural to “celebrate Sunday” “in honor of the resurrection;” especially when this is used as a pretext to change the seventh day Sabbath to the first day “Lord’s day.”

 

[djconklin]

They don’t even understand what they believe

Kind of hard to misunderstand: adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

except that the Catholic Church is evil.

They don’t believe that.

They say we are marked with the sign of the beast because we worship on Sundays.

They don’t believe that either.

They use our calendar which has leap year not realizing that every four years the Sabbath moves over a day.

And yet all Jews have always worshipped on the Sabbath. Hmmm.

They do what Prophet White told them to do.

Nope. You’ve been very badly misinformed.

"Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never [sic] quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and you make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what ‘Sister White Said’ —‘Sister White said this,’ and ‘Sister White said that,’ and ‘Sister White said the other thing’. But say, ‘Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.’ Spalding and Magan Collection

They don’t admit it but she wasa vegaterian and strangle most if not all of them are also!

The part about being EGW being a vegetarian is true. But, the rest makes no sense.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Kind of hard to misunderstand: adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

They don’t believe that.

** They? Don’t you mean We? And “yes” you do! To say otherwise would be to call your own denomination Liars, You really don’t mean to do that do you?! **

They don’t believe that either. Same answer!

And yet all Jews have always worshipped on the Sabbath. Hmmm.

** Can you prove that statement? It isn’t true and you were told several times about it being false! They even worship for three days and call it the Sabbath. So you are now Jewish? All Gentile Christians have always worshiped on The First Day as Jesus commanded until your foolish denomination decided that to be different you would declare the exact time and date for the end of the world ans worship on saturdays so that Jesus could idenitfy you. I would have thought the 666 would have given him enought of a hint!**

Nope. You’ve been very badly misinformed.

"Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never [sic] quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and you make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what ‘Sister White Said’ —‘Sister White said this,’ and ‘Sister White said that,’ and ‘Sister White said the other thing’. But say, ‘Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.’ Spalding and Magan Collection

**You said that exact same thing in post #879 Do you think people forget foolishness? Is that the standard SDA rermark to be made when someone calls you on Prophet White? Is it part of the hidden truths? Do you consider her kind of like a Blessed mother? **

The part about being EGW being a vegetarian is true. But, the rest makes no sense.

**Are you not a vegetarian? Aren’t most SDA? Did that question make sense? **

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

He has been told why they cannot be answered.

And why is that again? And where (what post #) was that explained?

I find it fascinating that I ask you, and all other SDAs, to show me the scriptures which support assertions made by SDAs over and over on this forum regarding the sabbath, and you tell me my questions cannot be answered with scripture because that is an Un-Biblical way to study the Bible. I must admit that is the first time I ever heard a SDA say that using scriptures to support or prove Biblical beliefs is Un-Biblical.

The truth is that there are no scriptures that will answer my 6 questions. The truth to be reasoned from that amazing fact is that the SDA teachings surrounding the sabbath/saturday being binding on all Christians is Un-Biblical.

And if what the SDA church teaches regarding the sabbath/saturday, with it being binding on all Christians, with it being a test of loyalty and fidelity to God in the “last days”, with it being the seal of God and safeguard against receiving the mark of the beast…and if all those beliefs are indeed Biblical, then at least one SDA somewhere should be able to anwer my 6 Questions with scriptures from the Bible.

But those questions cannot be anwered with scripture because that belief is not scriptural.

I made it my prayer in 1990 to know Christ only and Him crucified as the Apostle Paul wrote. And in 2005 that led me to the Catholic Church. Jesus said “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me”. He was talking about His loving and willing sacrifice on the cross for all of humankind. That loving and willing sacrifice of God’s only Son Jesus on the cross is what is lifted up each day by His priests all over the world in the Eucharist for the Body of Believers…and by being lifted up Jesus continues to draw all men unto Him. Praise God!!!

And yet, even after I discovered Jesus among us re-presenting Himself in His sacrifice as the Lamb of God for us, our Passover Lamb, in His ministry as our High Priest, I could not commit to Him because of my belief that the sabbath/saturday was all that I believed it to be when I was a SDA. And I struggled with those 6 Questions for 2 years before finally seeing the truth and reconciling with God’s True Church, His One True Fold.

I am in R.C.I.A. currently and will not officially join the Catholic Church until this coming Easter.

To all SDAs reading this…answer my 6 questions with scripture and convince me from the Bible of what you believe and what I once believed, and I will end my journey to the Catholic Church. Prove to me from the Bible that saturday is more important than the crucified and Risen Savior given for me and I will go directly to a SDA church the next saturday after you show me from the Bible the scriptures that answer my 6 Questions.

And then, after however many years of study you put into answering those 6 questions, it is my prayer that you make it the most important priority of your spiritual life to know Christ and Him crucified. Because that is where the Truth is and where all answers reside. That is where all division, bickering, and arguing ends; and we as followers of Jesus bring an answer to Jesus’ prayer for Himself and His disciples in John 17, just before He is taken away to be crucifed.

John 17:20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

God bless all!!!

 

[inJESUS]

We do.

how exactly? do you refrain from doing what the Torah says as Jews do?

Actually, circumcision is a practice, not a law. Read Galatians.

doesn’t observing the sabbath include pratice?

 

[djconklin]

Actually, circumcision is a practice, not a law. Read Galatians.

doesn’t observing the sabbath include pratice?

The Sabbath isn’t circumcision and vice-versa.​

I must admit that is the first time I ever heard a SDA say that using scriptures to support or prove Biblical beliefs is Un-Biblical.

I never said that; I said that your use of Sola Scriptura is unbiblical. By your use we can’t prove such Christian doctrines/teachings like the Trinity, that marriage is between a man and and a woman, or monogamy.