why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[happilycatholic]

Another thought:

Sanctification is temporary. You can be purified over and over and sin over and over. Salvation is PERMANENT!

You just don’t get it.

 

[happilycatholic]

“We need to be redeemed because we have sinned, which is trangression of the Law. Part of that Law is to “Remember” the Sabbath day to keep it holy.”

This is what happens when the Scriptures and The Law become more important than Christ.

When you sin you are transgressing against God, not some law written in the Bible. The Commandments are not Christ, they are laws, not flesh and blood.

See, SDAs seem to worry more about the law and the word Sabbath and Saturday than they do about The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

 

[djconklin]

Huh? How do you read the question of what a person is or is not into the statement?

You said, and I quote:

“Yes, but methinks you use this argument to your convenience malady.’”

That is not a question.​

“We need to be redeemed because we have sinned, which is trangression of the Law. Part of that Law is to “Remember” the Sabbath day to keep it holy.”

This is what happens when the Scriptures and The Law become more important than Christ.

When you sin you are transgressing against God, not some law written in the Bible. The Commandments are not Christ, they are laws, not flesh and blood.

It is because Scripture and the Law are important that Christ is so much more important. Nice definition of what sin is, but the Bible is quite clear: “sin is trangression of the Law.” 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. The Law is the bare minimum. If you aren’t obeying them then how can you be loving God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself? Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Sanctification is temporary. You can be purified over and over and sin over and over. Salvation is PERMANENT!

You just don’t get it.

Sanctification is a process. You have to be purified of sin over and over, till you overcome. Glorification at the 2nd Coming is permanent, you can lose your salvation if you lose faith.

You are very close, you get most of it.​

what you’ve stated here doesn’t give you any Holy Divinity in matters of interpreting Scripture.

I was working on a Masters of Divinity degree. The Bereans had even less and yet they were commended as being “more noble.” I get treated like dirt by my fellow Christians. Go figure.

And yet with all your “knowledge” you still didn’t explain how God told us to worship Christ the Redeemer on the Sabbath.

I don’t recall being asked. I’m not gifted with reading other people’s minds and motives–apparently my critics have a monoploy on that. Chirst is our Creator and our Redeemer. By physically resting on the Sabbath as He asked us to, we are constantly reminded that we are spiritually resting in Him.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

&c…&c…&c…

I don’t recall being asked. I’m not gifted with reading other people’s minds and motives–apparently my critics have a monoploy on that. Chirst is our Creator and our Redeemer. By physically resting on the Sabbath as He asked us to, we are constantly reminded that we are spiritually resting in Him.

In what chapter and verse did Jesus ask us to physically rest on the sabbath? I missed it! Thanks

 

[Auriel]

OH wow! I cannot believe how many pages there are to this thread. Too many to read this late at night.

IMO, which some may share, the Sabbath rule of Sundown to Sundown on Saturday was a Jewish law. And we are not bound by law.

I do not think God cares what day we worship, with God every day is Holy.

If one wants to go to the extreme and become legalistic about it then are they exchanging Grace for Law? Would they not then have to follow all of the old law? There are said to be over 600 commands in the Laws of Moses.

I thank God we are not under the Law, it is very harsh:

**Exodus Chapter 35:

2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.**

And if any follow the law and live up north I hope they have a heater and not just a fireplace!

3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

I mean where would it end? How far would you take it?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

OH wow! I cannot believe how many pages there are to this thread. Too many to read this late at night.
**We are over 1,000 pages! We will finally go away!
Thanks be to God! He is Good! **

 

[happilycatholic]

You said, and I quote:

“Yes, but methinks you use this argument to your convenience malady.’”

That is not a question.

Your response to my statement was this:

Others might, I never do. Never assume what others are, for it says more about you than them.

I was simply asking what my statement has to do with the question of what a person is or is not… Your response was out of context.​

It is because Scripture and the Law are important that Christ is so much more important. Nice definition of what sin is, but the Bible is quite clear: “sin is trangression of the Law.” 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. The Law is the bare minimum. If you aren’t obeying them then how can you be loving God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself? Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Sanctification is a process. You have to be purified of sin over and over, till you overcome. Glorification at the 2nd Coming is permanent, you can lose your salvation if you lose faith.

You are very close, you get most of it.

Again, you are not reading my posts. I did not say “sanctification” wasn’t a process. That is my point. You are using a circular argument to try and prove your point when you are actually proving mine. All you’ve done is repeat what I said.

---

I was working on a Masters of Divinity degree. The Bereans had even less and yet they were commended as being “more noble.” I get treated like dirt by my fellow Christians. Go figure.

I don’t recall being asked. I’m not gifted with reading other people’s minds and motives–apparently my critics have a monoploy on that. Chirst is our Creator and our Redeemer. By physically resting on the Sabbath as He asked us to, we are constantly reminded that we are spiritually resting in Him.

Whatever.

 

[happilycatholic]

OH wow! I cannot believe how many pages there are to this thread. Too many to read this late at night.

IMO, which some may share, the Sabbath rule of Sundown to Sundown on Saturday was a Jewish law. And we are not bound by law.

I do not think God cares what day we worship, with God every day is Holy.

If one wants to go to the extreme and become legalistic about it then are they exchanging Grace for Law? Would they not then have to follow all of the old law? There are said to be over 600 commands in the Laws of Moses.

I thank God we are not under the Law, it is very harsh:

Exodus Chapter 35:

2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

And if any follow the law and live up north I hope they have a heater and not just a fireplace!

3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

I mean where would it end? How far would you take it?

**Apparently SDAs have seen fit to change the Sabbath laws to mean what they interpret. Pretty much the same thing they accuse the Church of doing. **

 

[djconklin]

I was simply asking what my statement has to do with the question of what a person is or is not… Your response was out of context.

We weren’t dicsussing what a person is or is not. My response to your remark, which was not a question was not out of context.

Again, you are not reading my posts. I did not say “sanctification” wasn’t a process. That is my point. You are using a circular argument to try and prove your point when you are actually proving mine. All you’ve done is repeat what I said.

I didn’t say that you didn’t say that sanctification wasn’t a process. I took your response and re-wrote it. Therefore it was not a circular argument and I wasn’t trying to prove a point. We’re done.

 

[happilycatholic]

We weren’t dicsussing what a person is or is not. My response to your remark, which was not a question was not out of context.

I didn’t say that you didn’t say that sanctification wasn’t a process. I took your response and re-wrote it. Therefore it was not a circular argument and I wasn’t trying to prove a point. We’re done.

---

**Maybe you’re done. That would make sense. **

---

**But show me where God mentions salvation and redemtion is His command to rest on the Sabbath. Since He sent Christ because the Jews just couldn’t quite get it with all the laws and all the sacrifice and everything else, how do you suppose Christ the Redeemer is in the Sabbath when the need for the Redeemer came in light of their inability to find redemption in all the laws? There was NO redemption in those laws. That came with Christ. There is NO redemption in the Sabbath only rest and honor for the Creator. **

---

**You are reading something into the Sabbath that’s not there. The Jews don’t even do that. What makes you smarter than all the Jewish authorities and all the Catholic authorities on the matter? **

---

**You have no Holy Divinity. I don’t care how much you learn you will never have the knowledge the Church has. It was given to them by Christ Himself. **

---

You can’t learn your way to Salvation.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

We weren’t dicsussing what a person is or is not. My response to your remark, which was not a question was not out of context.

I didn’t say that you didn’t say that sanctification wasn’t a process. I took your response and re-wrote it. Therefore it was not a circular argument and I wasn’t trying to prove a point. We’re done.

**And what about #1040???:**mad:

 

[happilycatholic]

Circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement by simply repeating the statement in different or stronger terms. In this fallacy, the reason given is nothing more than a restatement of the conclusion that poses as the reason for the conclusion. To say, “You should exercise because it’s good for you” is really saying, “You should exercise because you should exercise.”

Therefor my dear, you did indeed create a circular argument.

**I thought you were smart **

---

**I apologize. I mean that playfully. I truly do respect your faith, but I’m just trying like crazy to understand it. **

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Yes, I’m a hard-headed Irish-German. But, I am not and have never been a legalist and I have studied for the ministry and in doing so learned how to read the Bible in its original languages. Like the Bereans of old

Acts 17:11 These [the Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I study the Bible as carefully and prayfully as I know how. I trust the Holy Spirit to guide me as we are promised in Scripture:

Well one-who-is-like-a-noble-Berean, I am surprised that since you are so well equipped to read the Bible, and make a point of telling others to read the Bible carefully, that you did not comment on the detailed reading of two creation days from Genesis chapter 1 which I supplied on the previous page 69 in Post # 1026. I guess we’ll just have to let that one go, and proceed to your comments below.

This is before the commandment was given. Where’d it come from? Notice it is mentioned without any precursor as to why they should keep it and yet it is mentioned matter of factly. It didn’t need explanation because they already knew about it.

Once again one-who-is-like-a-noble-Berean, I’m surprised at your question above, if you have so carefully read the scriptures as you admonish others to do.

Where indeed did it come from? This reveals so clearly the problem with SDA doctrinal devleopment. SDAs begin with the sabbath being the main purpose and end of God’s instruction to His people, and then gather together scripture texts and weave them together to support that story.

If you wre indeed the Bible scholar you claim to be, and had read the Bible carefully as you admonish others to do, you would have noticed that it is indeed mentioned with a precursor as to why they should keep it before it was written by the finger of God on tables of stone.

I cannot go through verse by verse of the Book of Exodus for you here on this forum, but I suggest you prarerfully read it. I will hit a few highligts which answer your question above, but do go back and check out what I’m going to say by prayerfully reading Exodus.

God sees the suffering of the Israelites in slavery in Egypt. He chooses Moses to use for His deliverance of the Israelites (Ex. chapters 1-4)

***Exodus 5:1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me *in the desert.’ "
2 Pharaoh said, “Who is the LORD, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the LORD and I will not let Israel go.”
3 Then they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Now let us take a three-day journey into the desert to offer sacrifices to the LORD our God, or he may strike us with plagues or with the sword.” 4 But the king of Egypt said, “Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!” 5 Then Pharaoh said, “Look, the people of the land are now numerous, and you are stopping them from working.” **

To hold a festival to God.

(con’t on next post)

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(con’t from previous post)

And why delieverance from Egypt?

**Exodus 6:2 God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them. 4 I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they lived as aliens. 5 Moreover, I have heard the groaning of the Israelites, whom the Egyptians are enslaving, and I have remembered my covenant. 6 "Therefore, say to the Israelites: ‘I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment. 7 I will take you as my own people, and I will be your God. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, who brought you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you to the land I swore with uplifted hand to give to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. I will give it to you as a possession. I am the LORD.’ " **

Exodus 7-11 the plagues. Exodus 12 Instructions regarding Passover which is God’s delieverance of His people and a shadow of Jesus our Passover Lamb, and our delieverer.

Exodus 13:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether man or animal.”
3 Then Moses said to the people, "Commemorate this day, the day you came out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery, because the LORD brought you out of it with a mighty hand. Eat nothing containing yeast. 4 Today, in the month of Abib, you are leaving. 5 When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites—the land he swore to your forefathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey—you are to observe this ceremony in this month: 6 For seven days eat bread made without yeast and on the seventh day hold a festival to the LORD.

Exodus 13:14 "In days to come, when your son asks you, ‘What does this mean?’ say to him, 'With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.’ 16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand."

Exodus 16:4 Then the LORD said to Moses, "I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days."

***Exodus 16:21 Each morning everyone gathered as much as he needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. 22 On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—two omers for each person—and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. 23 He said to them, "This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’ "
24 So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. 25 “Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today. 26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” ***

And then they move on to Mt. Sinai, where God establishes His covenant with the Israelites.

All of this was the precursor to the 10 commandments, this is where it came from. God called a people unto Himself to give them the land promised in the covenant with Abraham. God was making a nation of people to serve Him. He took them out of slavery and ignorance and had to teach them. He used days of rest, sabbaths, for instruction puposes.

But the sabbath was not the end, it was the means. Passover, delieverance, a new land for their homes, people obediant and trusting in God for all things was the end and purpose. Sabbaths and festivals, and then the sabbath of the commandment were to be used to understand and experience more deelpy the purpose God has for His people which is salvation, deliverance from sin, and restoration to the original relationship mankind had with God before sin entered the world.

It is not about the day, it is about what God has done and continues to do for us and how we should interact with each other in response to that deliverance…that salvation. That is what Jesus was trying to teach the religious leaders about regarding the sabbath and their accusations against Jesus for profaining it. Jesus was trying to teach them that it is not about a day, It is about Him!

God bless all!!!