Why is the Bible so complex when its message is so crucial?

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JRKH said:
I think that the question to ask is…Why is it being debated NOW…After 2000 years.
Surely this was not a debate in the Early Church…the council of Jerusalem was not about when to baptize…The Ancient Churches, RC and EO, both Baptize infants…Luther - the founder of the Reformation - accepted infant baptism as do the Anglicans… So why is there a debate now?

The issue always comes back to authority. Once Scripture is stripped away from the authoritative Church all sorts of things begin to pop up.
And what is worse…Not only is it a matter of Scriptures being read independently of tradition and the whole history of teaching…but it is being read often times with a specific bias against that history and tradition. Often times this bias is unconscious but is evident in that many of more “independent” Christians (non-denominationals especially) simply assume that the Catholic Church got it wrong (whatever it was)…

OK - OK…The above is a bit of a rant and I apologize if I offend anyone…
But the bottom line is that the problem comes about because of that separation of the Holy Scripture from the Pillar and Foundation of Truth that is the 2000 year old Church.

As to the question of why the bible is so complex…There again it has to do with it’s purpose in being formed. It was never intended to be a text book. It is a reference text for the authoritative Church which compiled it and intended to assure a firm and common foundation for liturgical purposes.
It is for this reason that we have had catechisms over these many centuries…

Anyway - that’s my 2cents worth…

Peace
James
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Absolutely spot on! Also, just wanted to say that one should never feel it necessary to apologize for offending someone when defending the teachings of the Catholic Church. That is part of the problem with many Catholics today–they have become brainwashed to believe that the Catholic Church does not hold the authority given her by Her Founder. I am not advocating being rude, but neither am I saying that we should be tripping all over ourselves to not offend someone who doesn’t agree with the Church’s teachings.
 
Almost_convert said:
I was just thinking about the catechism’s statements on baptism and how it is necessary for salvation. So necessary in fact that infants are given this sacrament to allow for their adoption into God’s family as early as possible. However many evangelical Protestants don’t see baptism as necessary for salvation but simply a sign of one’s conversion. My question is: if it is so necessary why would it be debatable? I firmly believe that scripture is pretty clear on its necessity, which is just one of many reasons I’m converting. But many of my committed Christian friends don’t believe this. This includes pastors and PhDs - not just your run of the mill pastor-said-it-so-I-believe-it Christians. If it is such a serious issue that involves the fate of a person’s mortal soul, why don’t the scriptures just come right out and say - if you don’t get baptized you are going to hell so baptize infants as soon as you can, and don’t ever let anyone tell you it’s not necessary! Even as I’m writing this I am thinking of John 3 when Jesus basically says that, but other verses like Romans 10:9 just says “confess and believe” without mentioning baptism or good works for that matter. Also just to add to that it also says there in Romans 10 that anyone who calls on the name of The Lord will be saved, but Jesus says many will say “lord lord” and he will say depart I never knew you. You see sometimes it seems for every clear verse there is one to take away the clarity. If this is all so crucial why not be more clear?
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Almost,

Because as you say the Catechism says…the Catechism and revealed truth are based not on Scripture and Reason…but Scripture and Tradition…it has been a Tradition to baptize babies that was never questioned until 1600…and Protestants are not 100% on the side of no Baptism for infants…

Protestants are split into CredoBaptists and PedoBaptists, using Scripture alone…

It is not that Scripture is not clear, it is that man/reason has decided to use a book to reconstruct the past that is evident in The Church…
 
Almost_convert said:
Many of these responses have spoken to one of the main reasons why I am converting. I’m 32 and for the past 15-16 years of my life I’ve been struggling with the bible trying to figure out a consistent hermeneutic. I have jumped from one idea to the next. Every time I picked up a book I would grab onto some new idea. God is giving me an incredible gift in the Catholic Church: the ability to breathe, soak in the beauty, and live my faith rather than spend my life figuring it out. To give into authority is freedom. I wish some of my Protestant friends would see it.

OP
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Almost Convert: The Catholic Church is a great gift. I treasure my Faith above all except for my love of God. To me, the Church is the constant calm voice of reason in a mad world of stormy upheaval. And, her teachings have been true and consistent since St. Peter became the first pope. If IBM had that kind of track record, there’d be no Apple computers or Microsoft! 😃
 
Almost_convert said:
That’s great eyesopening I’m somewhat jealous - I will be starting RCIA with my wife in the fall to come in next Easter - so I have a year to go, but it will be worth it. God bless you on your journey!
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You will be the recipient of many wonderful graces during this time. I will be praying for you and your wife as you “Cross the Tiber” !! Welcome to the faith ahead of time!
 
CopticChristian said:
Lego,

and the Bible speaks nothing of PhD…but it does promise a Church…
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Back in 1981-1984 I worked in the behavioral sciences department (psychology) in a university doctoral program. I worked for the director of clinical training. At that time, Ph.D. had another meaning…and I am a little embarassed to mention it, but here it goes: Piled Higher and Deeper. Sorry. But, you have no idea how whacked out psychologists (especially those in academia) really are. Since then I believe that they become psychologists so they can get free therapy themselves…
 
Sister_Terese said:
Sorry. But, you have no idea how whacked out psychologists (especially those in academia) really are. Since then I believe that they become psychologists so they can get free therapy themselves…
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I’m quite certain the psychologists working through Catholic Therapists and who offer healing to those vulnerable with psychological issues and who ‘‘bring the healing love of Jesus Christ to those seeking psychological help and support [providing] psychological information and a list of counselors across the USA and Canada who are faithful to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church’’ would take a different view to your uncharitable assessment of psychologists.

Sarah x 🙂
 
atheistgirl said:
I’m quite certain the psychologists working through Catholic Therapists and who offer healing to those vulnerable with psychological issues and who ‘‘bring the healing love of Jesus Christ to those seeking psychological help and support [providing] psychological information and a list of counselors across the USA and Canada who are faithful to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church’’ would take a different view to your uncharitable assessment of psychologists.

Sarah x 🙂
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I spoke from experience. You don’t like it? Oh well…
 
Sister_Terese said:
You are an admitted atheist and claim to be a psychologist. Nuff said.
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Fr. Benedict Groeschel is a psychologist and a member of the APA for more than 30 years.

Please post the link where I claimed to be a psychologist.

Sarah x 🙂
 
Sister_Terese said:
I spoke from experience. You don’t like it? Oh well…
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Just because you had bad experiences, doesn’t mean all are the same. Why do you think so many people hate Christians? It’s because of the actions of a few. But do those actions mean all are as such. Not at all. In fact, I’d say most are not.
 
atheistgirl said:
Fr. Benedict Groeschel is a psychologist and a member of the APA for more than 30 years.

Please post the link where I claimed to be a psychologist.

Sarah x 🙂
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Sorry I had you mixed up with another lady. And, I know Fr. Groeschel quite well.
 
Sister_Terese said:
Back in 1981-1984 I worked in the behavioral sciences department (psychology) in a university doctoral program. I worked for the director of clinical training. At that time, Ph.D. had another meaning…and I am a little embarassed to mention it, but here it goes: Piled Higher and Deeper. Sorry. But, you have no idea how whacked out psychologists (especially those in academia) really are. Since then I believe that they become psychologists so they can get free therapy themselves…
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Some highly “educated” people have AS, BS, Masters & PHDs These people would be called “4 degrees below zero”:rolleyes:
 
Sister_Terese said:
Absolutely spot on! Also, just wanted to say that one should never feel it necessary to apologize for offending someone when defending the teachings of the Catholic Church. That is part of the problem with many Catholics today–they have become brainwashed to believe that the Catholic Church does not hold the authority given her by Her Founder. I am not advocating being rude, but neither am I saying that we should be tripping all over ourselves to not offend someone who doesn’t agree with the Church’s teachings.
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Agree - the reason for my “apology” is that when discussing things here we need to be careful of speaking too broadly…after all “protestantism” is not a single belief system…and some newer groups do not even identify themselves as protestant - even though their core beliefs are easily traceable to the reformation. 🤷
By including the caveat that I did…I hoped to prevent the thread from being derailed.

That said…You are absolutely right that we need to stand squarely on the authority of the Church as given by Christ and recorded in Scripture. All other problems stem from the rejection of that biblical authority.

Peace
James
 
LegoGE1947 said:
I hope I can understand it once it is displayed!:hmmm:
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I was kidding but I think diagrams do help somewhat clarify things : if say we class contents in the bible under themes, eg. justification, salvation, redemption, righteousness etc.

I found this video about Justification between the two main denominations, you might be interested in, the problem is that it comes down to which scriptural passages are emphasized. There are 8* 10 minute parts, youtube.com/watch?v=XpbihA1vGD8

There are some diagrams out there like Calvinist Tribulation, again the reason why there are 4 different types of tribulation is because it depends on which passages are used as their basis …
e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Millennial_views.svg
 
Almost_convert said:
I was just thinking about the catechism’s statements on baptism and how it is necessary for salvation. So necessary in fact that infants are given this sacrament to allow for their adoption into God’s family as early as possible. However many evangelical Protestants don’t see baptism as necessary for salvation but simply a sign of one’s conversion. My question is: if it is so necessary why would it be debatable? I firmly believe that scripture is pretty clear on its necessity, which is just one of many reasons I’m converting. But many of my committed Christian friends don’t believe this. This includes pastors and PhDs - not just your run of the mill pastor-said-it-so-I-believe-it Christians. If it is such a serious issue that involves the fate of a person’s mortal soul, why don’t the scriptures just come right out and say - if you don’t get baptized you are going to hell so baptize infants as soon as you can, and don’t ever let anyone tell you it’s not necessary! Even as I’m writing this I am thinking of John 3 when Jesus basically says that, but other verses like Romans 10:9 just says “confess and believe” without mentioning baptism or good works for that matter. Also just to add to that it also says there in Romans 10 that anyone who calls on the name of The Lord will be saved, but Jesus says many will say “lord lord” and he will say depart I never knew you. You see sometimes it seems for every clear verse there is one to take away the clarity. If this is all so crucial why not be more clear?
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Keep persisting, maybe draw a mind map diagram, write your findings and categorize under themes eg. salvation, justification, sins, redemption, etc.
 
123Strontium said:
Keep persisting, maybe draw a mind map diagram, write your findings and categorize under themes eg. salvation, justification, sins, redemption, etc.
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This is something that has had me doing this–>:crying:Namely, if certain things are so important, why doesn’t scripture simply come out and say "Do this and never let anyone tell you otherwise or you won’t be saved? Why does scripture leave so much to debate when it means one’s eternal destiny whether you do the right thing or not?:confused:
 
Almost_convert said:
Many of these responses have spoken to one of the main reasons why I am converting. I’m 32 and for the past 15-16 years of my life I’ve been struggling with the bible trying to figure out a consistent hermeneutic. I have jumped from one idea to the next. Every time I picked up a book I would grab onto some new idea. God is giving me an incredible gift in the Catholic Church: the ability to breathe, soak in the beauty, and live my faith rather than spend my life figuring it out. To give into authority is freedom. I wish some of my Protestant friends would see it.

OP
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How eloquent! Thanks for posting this. I’m always inspired by converts.
Mary.
 
Why is the bible so complex?

Personally, I don’t think it is as complex as some people make it out to be,

Do I have it all figured out?

No, and you know something? I don’t think I am meant to necessarily understand every single element in the bible. I would like to but I think conversing with brethren and also prayer is essential in growing closer to God.
 
“Love the Lord your God with all your strength and mind and strength…and love your neighbor as yoursled…on THIS hangs ALL the law and the prophtets”…

Doesn’t seem all that complex.🙂 It may be difficult and complex to implement …but it’s not a complex matter…just a difficult one to adhere to.
 
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