Why is the Church so rich?

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Why does the Pope live in such a huge beautiful place? Why don’t all the priests, bishops, deacons, laymen, the Pope, etc., all give away all their posessions and live in like a cave somewhere? Jesus didn’t have a huge palace, and he told that rich guy to give up all his possessions.

Just so i’m not misunderstood, i am not trying to say anything against the Church, i’m just asking.
 
Obviously you have never been to Rome nor seen the Vatican. It is not fancy by any means and by our (US) standards, not elegant. The papal apartment has been redone before Pope Benedict took it as his residence. The cost of maintaing the Vatican is huge. People from all over the world come to visit. The Catholic Church, as I have heard, gives more to charity than any other institution on earth. The cost of paying priests, bishops, etc is considerable, much less taking care of the elderly clergy in retirement. The Church owns a lot of property that consists of churchs, schools, etc,. Parish’s depends on not only its members, but the diocese to pay the bills. In comparison to some much smaller denominations, the Catholic Church is anything but wealthy. Ask your parish to see it’s annual budget. Go to your Diocese to see thier budget, you will have your eyes opened.

God bless,

Mom of 5
 
Ok…I’m not trying to say anything offensive about the church.

But that still doesn’t explain why they don’t give up all their posessions. They could teach without schools. Jesus didn’t have schools and He did a lot of teaching. They could all be like wandering monks.
 
Why does the Pope live in such a huge beautiful place? Why don’t all the priests, bishops, deacons, laymen, the Pope, etc., all give away all their posessions and live in like a cave somewhere? Jesus didn’t have a huge palace, and he told that rich guy to give up all his possessions.

Just so i’m not misunderstood, i am not trying to say anything against the Church, i’m just asking.
The Catholic Church is not rich in comparison to many US corporations.

As far as selling its possessions to give to the poor, the following may be helpful:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=51486&

petra
 
Ok…I’m not trying to say anything offensive about the church.

But that still doesn’t explain why they don’t give up all their posessions. They could teach without schools. Jesus didn’t have schools and He did a lot of teaching. They could all be like wandering monks.
Are you messing with us?
 
Are you messing with us?
No. I do realize it sounds wierd though. But Jesus traveled around and taught ( and don’t get mad at me but i have to bring it up) without a fancy hat and colorful robes.

But thankyou Petra that helps as far as the artifacts.
 
In the first place, you have asked at least two different questions.

The Church is not actually all that rich relative to its size. If you want a rich church (embodied in its owner), go to the Unification Church of Sun Myung Moon. Largely, the Catholic Church is a church that manages and sometimes not quite that to meet the resources needed for its own spiritual life, just like many other denominations.

Why does the Pope live in a palace? The Pope lives in a comfortable middle-class or perhaps upper-middle-class apartment within the palace. He cannot close off the Stanze di Rafaello for private banquets.

Because of its rich history and the intimate interconnection between sacred art and the worship of God, the Church is in a constant state of balancing the need to maintain its patrimony with the need to observe due concern for the poor. The Church has been dispropriated over the centuries by many secular regimes, which have committed such monstrosities as destroying all the monasteries in England and confiscating their treasuries, or destroying the abbey at Cluny, one of the artistic centers of Europe with the second largest church in Christendom. The splendor of the Church, when not used in a gluttonly fashion by an apostate hierarch, as it sometimes has been, is an offering to God of first-fruits.

Poverty is a curse. The holy poverty of some ascetics and religious communities is another matter, but social poverty is a curse, and cannot be solved by selling St. Peter’s and giving the money to the poor.
 
In the first place, you have asked at least two different questions.

The Church is not actually all that rich relative to its size. If you want a rich church (embodied in its owner), go to the Unification Church of Sun Myung Moon. Largely, the Catholic Church is a church that manages and sometimes not quite that to meet the resources needed for its own spiritual life, just like many other denominations.

Why does the Pope live in a palace? The Pope lives in a comfortable middle-class or perhaps upper-middle-class apartment within the palace. He cannot close off the Stanze di Rafaello for private banquets.

Because of its rich history and the intimate interconnection between sacred art and the worship of God, the Church is in a constant state of balancing the need to maintain its patrimony with the need to observe due concern for the poor. The Church has been dispropriated over the centuries by many secular regimes, which have committed such monstrosities as destroying all the monasteries in England and confiscating their treasuries, or destroying the abbey at Cluny, one of the artistic centers of Europe with the second largest church in Christendom. The splendor of the Church, when not used in a gluttonly fashion by an apostate hierarch, as it sometimes has been, is an offering to God of first-fruits.

Poverty is a curse. The holy poverty of some ascetics and religious communities is another matter, but social poverty is a curse, and cannot be solved by selling St. Peter’s and giving the money to the poor.
Yes, but what about the fancy hat and robes?
 
Yes, but what about the fancy hat and robes?
Do you expect someone to celebrate Mass in St. Peter’s in a flannel shirt with overalls? BTW all bishops wear those vestments, though the current Pope does seem to have the high end of taste.

BTW when the Pope (at least JP II) travels, the locality he is visiting prepares his vestments as a gift to him and to the Church. It is considered an honor.

You’re barking up the wrong tree if you want to play the game of “why isn’t that money being spent on the poor” in the Catholic Church. The poor are elevated by the creation of wealth in a liberal society, not by the abasing of those who also have a responsibility to a great patrimony. I’m sure every pope of at least the last three centuries has asked himself these questions, and every one has come to the conclusion that there is nothing to be gained by becoming a rag picker in the false interest of the poor.

Some examples have been set. Paul VI gave up his own tiara for the poor. I imagine the people of Milan, his previous archdiocese, who had paid to have it made for him as a gift, were furious. Cardinal O’Malley of Boston, a Capuchin Franciscan, decided to live with his community instead of in the mansion-like Bishop’s Residence. “Well, why did we bother to build it?” is probably what the people of that archdiocese are saying.
 
Well BrooklynBoy are YOU willing to live an a cave and wear rags?

Or do you only think the church hierarchy should give up everything?

BTW, the clergy do not wear “robes” and “fancy hats” they wear vestments and miters.

Are you even a Catholic??
 
Brooklyn:

How much do you think you could get for a cardinal’s hat? It is my general impression (though I am sure it’s not universal) that most of the “fancy” things worn by the clergy are given to them by lay people who simply want to be generous and, in their way, to glorify God by the work of their hands. I know for a fact that every last vestment our parish priest has was a gift from one parishioner or another. Every one. Some things have to be accepted in the spirit with which they are given, and for the reason given. If your child gives you a tie for Christmas, is your first thought to sell it at a garage sale in order to give the proceeds to the poor? Are the feelings of the child nothing? I will add that my parish priest otherwise lives in extremely humble circumstances. Some things have a certain psychology behind them. Why the fancy vestments at Mass when a feed sack with holes in it might do? Because human beings, being creatures of sense as well as intellect, react in certain ways to things of dignity and beauty. Those vestments give us a sense of the dignity and majesty of God. Why does a cathedral have a high ceiling instead of a low, brooding one? To draw the spirit of man upward. People have emotional reactions to things. It’s part of our natures. To push our faces always in the mud does not give us a sense of the sublime. And why did Jesus allow Mary to anoint him with the expensive ointment. Judas, of course, protested. It should have been sold and the money given to the poor, Judas said. Jesus told him to be quiet; that the poor would always be with us but that He would not. Why was Mary (and Jesus) right and Judas wrong? Because Mary did it to glorify God and to show her solicitude for Him, in the same way some Italian felter makes a Cardinal’s hat for one who, to him, is the representative of God. Judas, of course, would tell the hatmaker to sell the hat and give the money to the poor.

As to the Vatican, you might also ask why the United States government does not sell Yellowstone Park to developers who would cover it with condos. Perhaps a commercial group would buy the Grand Canyon as well, and the government could use the proceeds to help fund Medicaid. But the government doesn’t do it, because it is deemed the heritage of all the people, not just some asset to be sold. The Vatican serves a similar purpose. All the artifacts, etc represent the heritage of all the Church. Would we really all be better off if Michaelangelo’s Pieta was resting in some billionaire’s living room in Singapore or Riyadh? Would the people of the Church be better off for that; to be deprived of their inspiring majesty forever?

Then all that marble on the U.S. Capitol; the Supreme Court building,etc. It could be stripped off and replaced with that chicken wire and putty stuff they put on cheap buildings nowadays. Why doesn’t the government do that? Because we are creatures of sense and emotion, not simply of intellect. We tend to reverence the law more if it’s chief court is housed grandly. Perhaps we are all shallow in reverencing things of beauty; of wanting to preserve them; of wanting to have them in the public domain in some way. If so, we are also shallow to enjoy the birds singing in the treetops when we could be watching the worms squiggling in the mud.

Catholics throughout the world, through their giving, dwarf what the Church could get by cutting up the paintings from the Sistine Chapel and selling them to Hugh Hefner or some Columbian drug dealer. It is, in part, because the Church inspires; because, in part, of the sense of eternal mission the Church imparts in providing a refuge from the mundane and often ugly manifestations of the modern world, that people feel inspired to give.

I claim my right to give to the poor what I give to the poor, and to give my parish priest or some cardinal whatever I choose to give him. I claim my right to give a bejeweled tabernacle to my parish church if I wish, and to suppose, if it seems so to me, that some child might be inspired to a greater understanding of the majesty of God by seeing it. I claim my right, approved by Jesus Himself, to “waste” expensive ointment by putting it on His head, and to account to Him, not to Judas or anyone else, for what else I might have done with the money it cost.
 
Now when Jesus was in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, a woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of costly perfumed oil, and poured it on his head while he was reclining at table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant and said, “Why this waste? It could have been sold for much, and the money given to the poor.” Since Jesus knew this, he said to them, “Why do you make trouble for the woman? She has done a good thing for me. The poor you will always have with you; but you will not always have me. In pouring this perfumed oil upon my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. Amen, I say to you, wherever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be spoken of, in memory of her.”

Matthew 26 :6-13
 
Ok…I’m not trying to say anything offensive about the church.

But that still doesn’t explain why they don’t give up all their posessions. They could teach without schools. Jesus didn’t have schools and He did a lot of teaching. They could all be like wandering monks.
The Protestants would like that I suppose. If all Catholic parishes gave up having schools and if all catholics were wandering monks.
The answer why the Church has what it has is that the laity loves it’s church and provides for it. That is the whole story. Always has. Almost everything in the Church is donated. It is that important.
 
Does God really care about these artifacts?
I don’t know how God feels about those things but I care about them, they’re mine. So to speak. No, I can’t take them home with me but I can go see them, as can others, and they can inspire and teach me about the faith.

The church holds those artifacts for all of the faithful so that generations may be inspired by them as well. They are a part of our family history as Catholics. I have only a few things that belonged to the paternal side of the family. Photos, the sewing machine my grandmother used, heirlooms from Denmark were destroyed in a fire. The few things I have are priceless to me as they remind me of my family and my heritage. The artifacts at the Vatican and other churches serve the same purpose.
 
Let me take a shot at this. The Pope and the Bishops and others in the hierarchy do not give away the wealth–grand Churches, priceless art, etc because it is not theirs to give away. Do you think the Pope actually owns the Vatican?
Of course, being 2000 years old, the Church has amassed a lot of possessions, but they don’t belong to any individual to give away. I, as a Catholic, would be furious if the Church started selling off cathedrals or sold the works of art it has held for so long. First of all, because I consider all of our churches holy and I wouldn’t want them purchased for the land and then destroyed to build a WalMart or something. Secondly, you could never sell for a fair price, something like “The Last Supper”.

Let me also point out an interesting story from the Gospel of John chp 12. It says "3: Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment.

4: But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said,

5: “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?”

6: This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it.

7: Jesus said, "Let her alone, let her keep it for the day of my burial.

8: The poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me."

By the way, the Catholic Church gives away millions of dollars in aid and millions of hours of voluteer time from its charities. We cannot be accused of not giving to the poor.
 
They could teach without schools. Jesus didn’t have schools and He did a lot of teaching. They could all be like wandering monks.
If Catholic educators tried that, they and their parents would be arrested for child abuse before the week was out. Look at how the various jurisdictions hassle home schoolers…and they’re in heated homes, out of the rain and the traffic. I am afraid this would be a non-starter.
 
Why does the Pope live in such a huge beautiful place? Why don’t all the priests, bishops, deacons, laymen, the Pope, etc., all give away all their posessions and live in like a cave somewhere? Jesus didn’t have a huge palace, and he told that rich guy to give up all his possessions.

Just so i’m not misunderstood, i am not trying to say anything against the Church, i’m just asking.
This is a good question. Thank God that the Popes understand they weren’t called to live lives of hermits.

He doesn’t live there because of anything he earned or deserves. He lives there because of the generousity of Catholics over the centuries. Like Christ said to the disciples who were critical of the woman who poored expensive perfume over his feet. We will always have the poor among us. Utopia will only be found when we are in Heaven. The Vatican speaks to the universality, the permanence, and the great majesty of the eternal gift of Christ when He created the Church. It makes total sense that we would have such a awe-inspiring place as the Vatican as the central temporal visible sign of our religion.
 
As far as I know the Vatican holds in her museums and galleries, objects of mans’ search for God. They are held in patrimony for all of civilization.
The Pope recieves no salary, gets no days off and is given a few white dresses and beanies.Occasionally one sees pictures of the inside of the “palace” and the walls are bare unless it is a room that visitors would come into.
The same way that the President could not sell the treasures of the Smithsonian , the Pope can’t sell the Vatican.
stjulie
 
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