Why Is The Saabath On Sunday

[JohnR77]

Where does the bible state that it contains all revelation?

It does not.

Where does it state that all revelation must be found only in written form?

It does not.

Where does the bible state that the total of God’s revelation is confined, as if in a prison cell, to the written page?

It does not.

Since the scriptures do not contain your personal demands, from whence have they come?

From man. Or woman. Not from Christ. Not from the Apostles He sent. This is problematic.

Protestants, including Seventh Day Adventists and other Sabbatarian sects, although not Lutheran, are held in bondage to Luther’s personal doctrine of “bible alone” and have no authority of binding and loosing (Matthew 16:18, 18:18). Nevertheless, let us examine the scriptures.

Revelation 1:10 “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,”

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 “Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”

The Didache, the most ancient known catechism of the Apostolic Christian faith (70-90 AD) - during the life of the Apostle John, clearly states that liturgical worship was to occur on the first day of the week: The Apostle John, the Apostle Paul and Luke in the bible, as well as the written instructions of the Apostles indisputably demonstrate that liturgical worship was on the first day of the week - the Lord’s day. Not man’s day, not the Jewish Sabbath, but the Lord’s day. One thousand six hundred and fifty one years later, by privately interpreting the scriptures, Dr. Peter Chamberlen (or John Trask/wife in 1617) in Britain changed all that. One thousand eight hundred sixty three years later, again by privately interpreting the scriptures, Ellen Gould White in the United States agreed and overturned all that had gone before. Never mind what Christ’s Apostles had taught by the Holy Spirit.

Problem. The Apostolic faith is not “Made in the UK” or “Made in USA”, as that is not biblical.

Great points.

 

[rstrats]

Cordelil,
re: “If Jesus Christ was crucified on Friday on rose 3 days later wouldn’t that put the Sabbath on Monday?”

It wouldn’t put the Sabbath on Monday, but it would put the resurrection on that day.

 

[rstrats]

wynd,
re: “2. It’s not ‘risen 3 days later,’ it’s ‘risen on the third day.’”

Mark 8:31 has the Messiah saying that He would rise “after three days”. He also says in Matthew 12:40 that three nights would be involved with His time in the “heart of the earth”. A sixth day of the week crucifixion/first day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

 

[po18guy]

I’m not saying that observing the first day of the week instead of the seventh day of the week because of the resurrection isn’t a divinely revealed Extra-Canonical approved activity or that the phrase “Lord’s Day” definitely cannot refer to the first day of the week - although I think the better case can be made that it doesn’t. And I’m not denying the TRADITIONS of the Catholic Church concerning these issues. So again, I was merely pointing out that scripture doesn’t say it just in case there are some here who think that it does.

Good! The problem arrives if one has a baseline of bible alone, which appeared exactly nowhere on earth until 16th century Germany. I agree that this is a huge hurdle to overcome for bible Christians, as it is the very DNA of their thinking. However, Jesus clearly stated that He is Lord, even of the Sabbath, and that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. The Apostles, under the Holy Spirit, obviously had great concern over this, but based on the actions of God, saw that Sunday was a greater day than Saturday - the Sabbath of those who rejected Christ.

One must focus on those verses which explain how Christ intended for the faith to be handed on (“tradition”- the handing on). Since there was no NT at the time of His ascension, scripture could not have been the method He intended - rather He permitted the writing and use of the irreplaceable NT, but only under Church authority and by the Apostles He sent.

Once the bible was cut loose from Church authority, as it was 499 years ago, all manner of chaos ensued. We have hundreds of disagreeing denominations, and such pseudo-Christian sects as the JWs, LDS and Iglesia ni Cristo, which were founded at first, on bible alone. Bible alone is a tradition, but worse, it became license to re-invent the New Covenant - even God Himself.

Do not forget that Mary Magdalen was first to worship the risen Lord on Sunday - that first Easter.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

Good! The problem arrives if one has a baseline of bible alone, which appeared exactly nowhere on earth until 16th century Germany. I agree that this is a huge hurdle to overcome for bible Christians, as it is the very DNA of their thinking. However, Jesus clearly stated that He is Lord, even of the Sabbath, and that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. The Apostles, under the Holy Spirit, obviously had great concern over this, but based on the actions of God, saw that Sunday was a greater day than Saturday - the Sabbath of those who rejected Christ.

One must focus on those verses which explain how Christ intended for the faith to be handed on (“tradition”- the handing on). Since there was no NT at the time of His ascension, scripture could not have been the method He intended - rather He permitted the writing and use of the irreplaceable NT, but only under Church authority and by the Apostles He sent.

Once the bible was cut loose from Church authority, as it was 499 years ago, all manner of chaos ensued. We have hundreds of disagreeing denominations, and such pseudo-Christian sects as the JWs, LDS and Iglesia ni Cristo, which were founded at first, on bible alone. Bible alone is a tradition, but worse, it became license to re-invent the New Covenant - even God Himself.

Do not forget that Mary Magdalen was first to worship the risen Lord on Sunday - that first Easter.

Well said!

 

[Wesrock]

The resurrection was on a Sunday, to be sure.

From Luke 24:

But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they went in they did not find the body. 4 While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; 5 and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? 6 Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, 7 that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise.” 8 And they remembered his words, 9 and returning from the tomb they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 Now it was Mary Mag′dalene and Jo-an′na and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles; 11 but these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them.

13 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emma′us, about seven miles from Jerusalem, 14 and talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15 While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17 And he said to them, “What is this conversation which you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. 18 Then one of them, named Cle′opas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 19 And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21 But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel.** Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since this happened.** 22 Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning 23 and did not find his body; and they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb, and found it just as the women had said; but him they did not see.” 25 And he said to them, “O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

[rstrats]

Wesrock,
re: “Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since this happened.”

That was said on the first day of the week. So then the 7th day of the week would have been the second day since this happened, and the 6th day of the week would have been the first day since this happened, which would make the 5th day of the week the day that it happened. However, I think the majority think that it was the 6th day of the week.

 

[po18guy]

Wesrock,
re: “Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since this happened.”

That was said on the first day of the week. So then the 7th day of the week would have been the second day since this happened, and the 6th day of the week would have been the first day since this happened, which would make the 5th day of the week the day that it happened. However, I think the majority think that it was the 6th day of the week.

Parsing the sentences using a dictionary? “Since” includes the first day. We are not speaking Aramaic, buit English, which uses different rulrs and construction. As well, certain biased scripture translations alter the perception of the passage of tim or of the days involved.

Simple fact: The Apostles knew, from the Lord’s teaching that the Sabbath was made for man and not vice-versa; that the Lord was Master of the Sabbath; that He chose to violate the Jewish Sabbath repeatedly and taught His apostles to do the same; that He would rise from the dead on the first day; that He would grant the Holy Spirit on the first day - knowing the Apostles would gather on the first day. John received the Revelation on the Lord’s Day.

After the first day liturgical celebration had commenced, Paul received his revelation directly from the Lord, regarding the very nature of that celebratio. Not a peep about it being on the “wrong day.” Was God therefore negligent? Did Paul get it wrong?

Only after 1650+ years had passed, and the bible was privately interpreted by the ignorant and unstable, did the Judaizer’s idea of forcing Christians to observe the Jewish Sabbath occur. It is exactly the same with circumcision.

 

[rstrats]

po18guy,
re: “Parsing the sentences using a dictionary?”

I don’t understand. To what are you referring?

re: “Since” includes the first day. We are not speaking Aramaic, buit English, which uses different rulrs and construction."

Are you saying that the English translators didn’t try to carry the meaning of the original writers over into English?

re: “The Apostles knew…that the Lord…chose to violate the Jewish Sabbath repeatedly…”

Actually, He was only violating the Pharisees’ own system of their strict Sabbath laws that they had set up regarding how to observe the Sabbath.

re: “The Apostles knew…that He would rise from the dead on the first day…”

Just so it’s understood that there is no scripture that says that the resurrection would occur on the “first day”.

re: “The Apostles knew…that He would grant the Holy Spirit on the first day - knowing the Apostles would gather on the first day.”

Just so it’s understood that scripture mentions a gathering only 2 times with regard to the 1st day of the week.

re: “John received the Revelation on the Lord’s Day.”

Just so it’s understood that scripture never designates the 1st day of the week as the “Lord’s Day”.

re: “After the first day liturgical celebration had commenced, Paul received his revelation directly from the Lord, regarding the very nature of that celebratio.”

To what scripture are you referring?

 

[po18guy]

po18guy,
re: “Parsing the sentences using a dictionary?” I don’t understand. To what are you referring? re: “Since” includes the first day. We are not speaking Aramaic, buit English, which uses different rulrs and construction." Are you saying that the English translators didn’t try to carry the meaning of the original writers over into English? re: “The Apostles knew…that the Lord…chose to violate the Jewish Sabbath repeatedly…” Actually, He was only violating the Pharisees’ own system of their strict Sabbath laws that they had set up regarding how to observe the Sabbath. re: “The Apostles knew…that He would rise from the dead on the first day…” Just so it’s understood that there is no scripture that says that the resurrection would occur on the “first day”. re: “The Apostles knew…that He would grant the Holy Spirit on the first day - knowing the Apostles would gather on the first day.”
Just so it’s understood that scripture mentions a gathering only 2 times with regard to the 1st day of the week. re: “John received the Revelation on the Lord’s Day.” Just so it’s understood that scripture never designates the 1st day of the week as the “Lord’s Day”.
re: “After the first day liturgical celebration had commenced, Paul received his revelation directly from the Lord, regarding the very nature of that celebratio.” To what scripture are you referring?

I lack both time and energy to split this up into paragraphs, so I’ll have to run it all togehter.

1. A dictionary is not a guide to the intent of God’s word.
2. The vast majority of bible translators have inserted bias into their versions, which supports their denomination’s doctrines.
3. Levitical law is very precise and has nothing to do with the Pharisees’ “traditions of men.”
4. If you are bound to Luther’s scripture alone, and to Luther’s 66 book bible, you cannot possibly understand the ancient Church.
5. That is contained in the Apostolic Tradition which was handed on, just as the bible was.
6. You are repeating an interpretive tradition which the SDA have added to the bible: that Jesus only violated the Pharisee’s strict observances. No! Read Leviticus! It is extremely strict, and was long before the Pharisee party came into existence.
7. A single mention of gathering on the Lord’s day settles the matter forever. We cannot violate the bible, right?
8. And, make no mistake, the Lord’s Day is Sunday. Always was and always will be. The risen Lord was first worshiped on Easter Sunday- by Mary Magdalen and the other women.
9. Jesus’ Church has the power of binding and loosing - no other Christian community has this, not any Protestant denomination, and not Anabaptists or Seventh-Day Baptists or the SDA. Binding and loosing - read Acts 15 on circumcision. That first council is but one example of binding and loosing. The canon of scripture in your bible is another example of binding and loosing. 27 books in the New Testament, for example. Pope and Council decided this.
10. As to Paul, he received direct revelation from the Lord as to the celebration of the Eucharist, and called it a “participation” in the Body and Blood of the Lord. Not a remembrance, but a participation. Huge difference.