Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[catholic1seeks]

You are sensitive and you are in the right path.

1. The Church is right that there are existing powerful movements to undermine the Faith and the destination of the souls of many.

This has got to stop.

Gay people who want to be able to commit themselves in a life of love is the primary issue that activists and homosexual persons have been focused. Some gay persons and organizations may hate faith. But this accusation against the gay community and persons has go to stop. It is unfair and uncharitable.

Most gay persons probably couldn’t give 2 cents about what the Catholic Church or other churches think.

This thread sees at least two gay persons who want to also respect and embrace a Christian life. We are not the only ones.

 

[edwest2]

Stop painting with broad strokes. The issue of whether it is OK or not for two men or two women to commit themselves in a life of love, and whether or not they can be able to, is simply DIFFERENT and SEPARATE from various persons who may be having particular agendas, which not every gay person or activist would support.

I watch the media as part of my job. No broad strokes here. I can provide a list of LGBT groups and outlets that support what I’m talking about. They don’t want to be considered different or separate. Those promoting gay marriage want the world to know that, according to them, there is nothing wrong. Nothing to consider. At best, it should be considered neutral, but it’s not. It has far-reaching effects on society and the young in particular.

Yes, people can do what they want, but the Church’s point is that there are consequences to consider as far as gay marriage. The ‘no connection’ theory is not logical. Bakeries are being sued and just because some choose not to do so does not mean there is no connection.

Ed

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Different poll. Quite possibly different answers. I’d bet the percentage who said ‘A union between a man and a woman’ may well be more than those who had no objection to gay marriage.

But really, are you peeking at these type of results from behind the couch? Not really wanting to see them? Because Zoltan, my old mate, just check out the second largest group and the smallest group who support it. If you’re under thirty you are nearly two and half times as likely to support it as someone who is over 60.

Think all those people are going to change their minds? The polls (assuming that anyone wants to keep checking) are only going to get worse for you. A lot worse. Maybe you should devote some time to matters where you may have a modicum of success. Better sex education perhaps?

I see your points. But I am very familiar with polls. I have been involved in the production of polls and polling strategies. The fact that only 12 states “voted” to support SSM while the rest were forced to follow court orders offers a different perspective on public consensus. (Maybe the polls are wrong)

A poll can produce inaccurate results by the wording of the questions. For example…the world famous Cobalt Poll could ask:

“Since homosexual activity is neither normal or natural, should the government promote such activity by legally recognizing same sex marriage? Yes or No.”

This is what is known as a “Push Poll”. The question begins with a premise and can produce “intended results.” The next step is to send a press release to the Associated Press (AP) and Reuters with the “Earth Shaking” results…but not the references. The next day the wire services announce: “Majority of U.S. voters are against Same Sex Marriage”. Now, what percentage of congress is going to dig any deeper than that?

There are other little “tricks” that can be used by pollsters … but I don’t want to give away all my secrets. Let’s just say that you should be skeptical, VERY skeptical of polls …even those that you agree with.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I watch the media as part of my job. No broad strokes here. I can provide a list of LGBT groups and outlets that support what I’m talking about. They don’t want to be considered different or separate. Those promoting gay marriage want the world to know that, according to them, there is nothing wrong. Nothing to consider. At best, it should be considered neutral, but it’s not. It has far-reaching effects on society and the young in particular.

Yes, people can do what they want, but the Church’s point is that there are consequences to consider as far as gay marriage. The ‘no connection’ theory is not logical. Bakeries are being sued and just because some choose not to do so does not mean there is no connection.

Ed

There is no connection in that being gay and wanting to be able to marry the love of your life does not mean hatred for the Church or wanting to persecute those who have different beliefs. No matter how many gay people or organizations DO feel that way, it is simply a stereotype. As long as I am around, that perspective will never be 100% among gay people. And I am sure there are others like me.

 

[Birdpreacher]

US Catholic Church is gonna laugh at this years from now when gay families make up a sizable portion of the congregation. Lots of gays go to church (not take sacraments but show up-A-la divorced people) and want their kids baptized, while not all churches will be welcoming, some catholic churches will. Also, Catholic Schools will have more and more gay parents on PTA. The catholics are in for a shock to see how normal these gay folk are.

Moreover, biggest new ally in fight against abortion will be gays who want to adopt. If pro-life movement knew what was good for it, they would be encouraging homosexual adoption left and right.

 

[Thorolfr]

Lots of gays go to church (not take sacraments but show up-A-la divorced people) and want their kids baptized, while not all churches will be welcoming, some catholic churches will.

I suspect that lots of gay Catholics who actually go to church and haven’t given up on trying to be Catholic also do participate in the Eucharist because they don’t think that being gay and sexually active is a sin and some priests also probably don’t ask any questions or object. I’m sure it’s the same for all those churchgoing Catholics who use contraception and just don’t tell anyone.

 

[Mark121359]

I suspect that lots of gay Catholics who actually go to church and haven’t given up on trying to be Catholic also do participate in the Eucharist because they don’t think that being gay and sexually active is a sin and some priests also probably don’t ask any questions or object. I’m sure it’s the same for all those churchgoing Catholics who use contraception and just don’t tell anyone.

I’m afraid you’re right. But make no mistake, their souls are in some serious jeopardy if they shall leave this earth unrepentant. And that is why the RCC has always made such a big deal about it. She’s in the business of saving souls.

---

Peace, Mark ***

 

[cyriljw]

Several Catholic organizations in the US seem to be uncomfortably and awkwardly preoccupied with gay issues. Catholic Answers Live, a radio show I love, sometimes has specific shows dedicated to same-sex marriage or homosexuality. I just switched on EWTN on my TV and the show was talking about the “militant homosexual agenda.” Catholic bloggers and articles are always dedicating topics on this issue; everytime I go to NewAdvent.org, there is a good chance I’ll see a highlighted article casting the issue in a severe light.

My question is, what is this emphasis on this issue meant to achieve? Is it supposed to help those gay persons who are already struggling to find a place in the Church? Is it supposed to convince the “militant homosexual” activists? Is it supposed to reach out to those in the Church and the world who disagree with church teaching and accept homosexual relationships? Or is it supposed to comfort those who already agree with church teaching?

Maybe I am just sensitive. But I do not see the point with this over-emphasis. I could see how such a preoccupation would turn away those from the Church, as it is making me really disappointed with the USA church’s outreach to those on the fringes.

Catholic tends to be ‘hit and miss’ with Bible. But from there we learn that God does not
accept ‘gay’. He hates it because it is sin. People who don’t like that should take up their
argument with God. Cyril.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

US Catholic Church is gonna laugh at this years from now when gay families make up a sizable portion of the congregation. Lots of gays go to church (not take sacraments but show up-A-la divorced people) and want their kids baptized, while not all churches will be welcoming, some catholic churches will. Also, Catholic Schools will have more and more gay parents on PTA. The catholics are in for a shock to see how normal these gay folk are.

Moreover, biggest new ally in fight against abortion will be gays who want to adopt. If pro-life movement knew what was good for it, they would be encouraging homosexual adoption left and right.

Interesting concept…

However according to the latest census less than 2% of the population identified themselves as gay. That means there are more Methodists in the U.S. than gays.

Of the 2%, the majority are not interested in committed relationships and prefer to “cruise”. Of the small percentage remaining who want to marry, I would say that most of them have been brainwashed about the Catholic Church and Christianity in general and have no interest in joining any church.

Based on the actual numbers, I really don’t see a sizable portion of Catholic congregations being made up of gay “families”.

 

[edwest2]

I see your points. But I am very familiar with polls. I have been involved in the production of polls and polling strategies. The fact that only 12 states “voted” to support SSM while the rest were forced to follow court orders offers a different perspective on public consensus. (Maybe the polls are wrong)

A poll can produce inaccurate results by the wording of the questions. For example…the world famous Cobalt Poll could ask:

“Since homosexual activity is neither normal or natural, should the government promote such activity by legally recognizing same sex marriage? Yes or No.”

This is what is known as a “Push Poll”. The question begins with a premise and can produce “intended results.” The next step is to send a press release to the Associated Press (AP) and Reuters with the “Earth Shaking” results…but not the references. The next day the wire services announce: “Majority of U.S. voters are against Same Sex Marriage”. Now, what percentage of congress is going to dig any deeper than that?

There are other little “tricks” that can be used by pollsters … but I don’t want to give away all my secrets. Let’s just say that you should be skeptical, VERY skeptical of polls …even those that you agree with.

Leading questions. Basic psychological warfare. And “spin.” I would like to find the particular member of the Global Cabal of Repackagers and Relabelers who came up with that one. Followed by “new normal.”

If I was asked to view a list (and I’ve seen such things) of what “most Americans” were doing today, I would not be doing 99% of them. I have a bit of a background in demographics. Another arcane art.

Ed

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Interesting concept…

However according to the latest census less than 2% of the population identified themselves as gay. That means there are more Methodists in the U.S. than gays.

Of the 2%, the majority are not interested in committed relationships and prefer to “cruise”. Of the small percentage remaining who want to marry, I would say that most of them have been brainwashed about the Catholic Church and Christianity in general and have no interest in joining any church.

Based on the actual numbers, I really don’t see a sizable portion of Catholic congregations being made up of gay “families”.

I don’t agree with you there one bit. Numbers are tricky. My guess is that now the tide has turned, you will be seeing a lot more people being open about their sexuality. And a lot more will be marrying and starting families. 2%? Not even close.

And when families start happening, they WILL join the PTA and their local parish and Sunday School. It is going to be the new norm.

The question is: how will the Roman Catholic parishes and schools welcome these families?

 

[Thorolfr]

Interesting concept…

However according to the latest census less than 2% of the population identified themselves as gay. That means there are more Methodists in the U.S. than gays.

Of the 2%, the majority are not interested in committed relationships and prefer to “cruise”. Of the small percentage remaining who want to marry, I would say that most of them have been brainwashed about the Catholic Church and Christianity in general and have no interest in joining any church.

Based on the actual numbers, I really don’t see a sizable portion of Catholic congregations being made up of gay “families”.

What census are you talking about that asks people about their sexual orientation? The US Census that is carried out every 10 years certainly doesn’t do so. Estimates of what percentage of the population is gay are not very accurate because lots of people who are interviewed probably don’t answer truthfully, especially if they live in areas of the country that are not very tolerant. Still, most polls and studies report numbers higher than 2%. For example, from 2014:

In a nationally representative telephone survey of 35,071 Americans, Pew Research found that 1,604, or 4.6%, of the sample identified as gay, lesbian or bisexual, and 32,439 (or 92.4%) as heterosexual, with the remainder refusing or being unable to provide an answer, or identifying as something else.

Or

The Public Religion Research Institute survey of 2,314 Millennials found that 88% identified as heterosexual, 4% as bisexual, and 3% as gay or lesbian. In a separate question, 1% identified as transgender. In total, 7% of Millennials identified as LGBT. Three percent refused to identify their sexual orientation. The unaffiliated were more likely to identify as LGBT than the religious, as were Democrat-leaning Millennials compared to the Republican-leaning. No differences were found among the races

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States

 

[edwest2]

There is no connection in that being gay and wanting to be able to marry the love of your life does not mean hatred for the Church or wanting to persecute those who have different beliefs. No matter how many gay people or organizations DO feel that way, it is simply a stereotype. As long as I am around, that perspective will never be 100% among gay people. And I am sure there are others like me.

I am sure there are others like you who do not hate the Church about the gay issue. But the majority message out there is swift condemnation for any (no need to identify your religion) person who is against gay marriage:

Bigot
Hate-filled
Religious nut
Radical Right Wing

If you read the gay press, like the Advocate, they have a link titled Religion that anyone can click on. They watch what any religious person/group/denomination has to say. And God forbid that your free speech rights or point of view goes against theirs.

Ed

 

[Rau]

Stop painting with broad strokes. The issue of whether it is OK or not for two men or two women to commit themselves in a life of love, and whether or not they can be able to, is simply DIFFERENT and SEPARATE from various persons who may be having particular agendas, which not every gay person or activist would support.

When you say “love” you should say “sexual relationship”. Noone objects to love.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I don’t agree with you there one bit. Numbers are tricky. My guess is that now the tide has turned, you will be seeing a lot more people being open about their sexuality. And a lot more will be marrying and starting families. 2%? Not even close.

The National Health Interview Survey, July 2014, which is the government’s premier tool for annually assessing Americans’ health and behaviors, found that 1.6 percent of adults self-identify as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent consider themselves bisexual.

And when families start happening, they WILL join the PTA and their local parish and Sunday School. It is going to be the new norm.

The question is: how will the Roman Catholic parishes and schools welcome these families?

That would be difficult since all Catholics believe that marriage is the core of a family and marriage is between a man and a woman. So these “families” would not be Catholics. Why would they want to send their children to a school that teaches that there is no such thing as two daddies or two mommies?

Doesn’t make sense.

 

[Rau]

I am sure there are others like you who do not hate the Church about the gay issue. But the majority message out there is swift condemnation for any (no need to identify your religion) person who is against gay marriage:

Bigot
Hate-filled
Religious nut
Radical Right Wing

If you read the gay press, like the Advocate, they have a link titled Religion that anyone can click on. They watch what any religious person/group/denomination has to say. And God forbid that your free speech rights or point of view goes against theirs.

Ed

Don’t forget my favorite - “ultra-conservative”.

 

[edwest2]

US Catholic Church is gonna laugh at this years from now when gay families make up a sizable portion of the congregation. Lots of gays go to church (not take sacraments but show up-A-la divorced people) and want their kids baptized, while not all churches will be welcoming, some catholic churches will. Also, Catholic Schools will have more and more gay parents on PTA. The catholics are in for a shock to see how normal these gay folk are.

Moreover, biggest new ally in fight against abortion will be gays who want to adopt. If pro-life movement knew what was good for it, they would be encouraging homosexual adoption left and right.

Common misconception. Years after something becomes legal does not mean people will forget it - the Pro-Life Movement is about babies and the sanctity of human life. Their biggest message is basically - Abortion stops a beating heart.

Catholics are in an appropriate state of concern about gay parents, from the Pope on down to the Catholic in the pew. No, bullying anyone should never be tolerated but gay sexual behavior - gay marriage - is an issue. Privacy used to mean something. Now that LGBT people have abandoned that, it has caused an ongoing problem.

Ed

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

What census are you talking about that asks people about their sexual orientation? The US Census that is carried out every 10 years certainly doesn’t do so. Estimates of what percentage of the population is gay are not very accurate because lots of people who are interviewed probably don’t answer truthfully, especially if they live in areas of the country that are not very tolerant. Still, most polls and studies report numbers higher than 2%. For example, from 2014:

Or

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported the first large-scale government survey measuring Americans’ sexual orientation.

The National Health Interview Survey, which is the government’s premier tool for annually assessing Americans’ health and behaviors, found that 1.6 percent of adults self-identify as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent consider themselves bisexual.

washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/health-survey-gives-government-its-first-large-scale-data-on-gay-bisexual-population/2014/07/14/2db9f4b0-092f-11e4-bbf1-cc51275e7f8f_story.html

I keep wondering why agencies like the CDC and the National Health Interview Survey seem to work so closely with the gay community. Health/disease problems, maybe???

 

[edwest2]

Don’t forget my favorite - “ultra-conservative”.

“How can people living in the 21st Century…”

Ed

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Don’t forget my favorite - “ultra-conservative”.

Did someone say “Zoltan”?

What did I do now?