Why is the West losing Christians?

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I just find it odd that a lot of the things we point to as causing people to turn from religion are in fact part of creation and, therefore, God’s creation.

If sex has a tendency to create disordered persons, then why is it such a strong drive? etc. People wouldn’t masturbate or engage in lustful activities if they didn’t have this biological desire to begin with, which has been given to them by God.
 
edwest211 said:
This is slavery to the flesh. Not a good thing.
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Exactly. Fulton Sheen said that atheism doesn’t have rational foundations; it is always caused by a moral revolt. And modern society is in full scale revolt against purity. As you say, a huge number are enslaved to the flesh. They left the true God to serve Bacchus.
 
Life is a challenge, and as Mother Angelica said, holiness isn’t for wimps.

Lately it seems like we get about one thread a week asking
  • Why didn’t God make it easier for us to be holy?
  • Why didn’t God make us all so we wouldn’t sin and would all go to Heaven?
  • Why didn’t God present the Scriptures with a ton of historical proof so everybody would be convinced to believe them?
    Why didn’t God do this and Why didn’t God do that.
Answer: Because he wanted us to show our commitment to him by making some effort.
 
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You oversimplify. The point is: promoting homosexual behavior as good is problematic on a moral and practical level. Go to the CDC website and search for ‘Men who have sex with men’ (their phrasing, not mine). Many sex partners results in an increased risk for getting one or more STDs. On a moral level, sex should be considered this way: Who decides when I have sex? The Church, the State? No, I do.
 
RealisticCatholic said:
It’s not all evil vs. good people.
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It’s about the corruption of social morality and the rejection of the order established by God. This new secular “morality” (sic) is diametrically opposed to true morality. This new ethos is dragging souls to Hell.
 
I have to agree with that. Corruption is being sold to people as a false freedom. Society needs stability. Stable families are the basic building blocks of any society.
 
My guess is that the church has faded in the West because of Gnostic Enlightenment which originated in France and Germany hundreds of years ago. Gnosticism has been the foundation of influential fraternal organizations which continue to be influential to this day because of their high value of propaganda and networking mobilization. This is why the Western church has slowly deteriorated, a source of “unreason.”
 
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RealisticCatholic said:
But why would humans prefer all of this, if God made human nature to desire the Ultimate Good, which is God?
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What’s ultimately good may not seem so in the moment. It’s better for a person to be fit and active. But in the moment, it might feel better and create more of an instant emotional payoff, to sit around on the couch and crack open another beer.

And if that sedentary person recognizes that health is ultimately better and decides to hit the treadmill, it’s gonna hurt at first and their brain will be telling them, “this is too hard, let’s just order a pizza and watch tv.”

So too with our moral lives. We know we should orient ourselves to God, but that’s a hard process fighting against our fallen nature. It’s much easier to pick the low hanging fruit of immediate gratification, like casual sex and consumerism.
 
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The title of the thread asks " Why is the West losing Christians ?"

The answer lies within ourselves , and it serves no purpose to point to others to find the answer .

The Fathers of the Second Council of the Vatican , especially in their teaching in Lumen Gentium , emphasized the universal call to holiness .

They taught : "The followers of Christ are called by God, not because of their works, but according to His own purpose and grace. They are justified in the Lord Jesus, because in the baptism of faith they truly become sons of God and sharers in the divine nature. In this way they are really made holy. Then too, by God’s gift, they must hold on to and complete in their lives this holiness they have received.

" All the faithful of Christ are invited to strive for the holiness and perfection of their own proper state. Indeed they have an obligation to so strive. Let all then have care that they guide aright their own deepest sentiments of soul. Let neither the use of the things of this world nor attachment to riches, which is against the spirit of evangelical poverty, hinder them in their quest for perfect love.

" All Christ’s faithful, whatever be the conditions, duties and circumstances of their lives—and indeed through all these, will daily increase in holiness, if they receive all things with faith from the hand of their heavenly Father and if they cooperate with the divine will. In this temporal service, they will manifest to all men the love with which God loved the world.

" In order that love, as good seed may grow and bring forth fruit in the soul, each one of the faithful must willingly hear the Word of God and accept His Will, and must complete what God has begun by their own actions with the help of God’s grace. These actions consist in the use of the sacraments and in a special way the Eucharist, frequent participation in the sacred action of the Liturgy, application of oneself to prayer, self-abnegation, lively fraternal service and the constant exercise of all the virtues. For charity, as the bond of perfection and the fullness of the law, rules over all the means of attaining holiness and gives life to these same means. It is charity which guides us to our final end. It is the love of God and the love of one’s neighbor which points out the true disciple of Christ."

The extent to which each Catholic responds to this call gives the measure to his/her contribution to the increase or decrease of the spread of the Gospel .

The answer is found within oneself alone .

There is no need to look elsewhere .

So why is the West losing Christians ?

Because I am not faithful enough to Jesus.
 
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I’m young so nothing I say is really certain truth
But I think just people are changing and the future is a bad place making humanity less human

I think either the world will end (anyone’s guess who it does) and Jesus will come again
Or
There will be a rebellion of society and a new Christian(hopefully Catholic) awakening
 
Pope Benedict XVI goes on to say:
We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]
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Commentary by the Practical Catholic.

“Pope Benedict does not play language games, he is unconcerned with the postmodernist’s corner on untruth. Neither should we be. Notice how he calls relativism a “dictatorship” instead of agreeing that no values and no Truth are the way forward for society. What many fail to recognize is that imposing nihilism and arbitrary tribalism is a form of dictatorship. Where untruth or half truth is the common order, there can only be oppression. Political correctness has asked us to abandon our value-laden language and to pick up a new language proper to the secular forum. However, this secular newspeak is value-laden against the traditional claims of the Western world and as such, is a poison rather than a new order. We can and should bring our own conviction laden language to the table, if we’re going to have any sort of real dialogue at all. Misinformation and restrained convictions are not the proper building blocks for a democracy. The Holy Father offers us a visions of the State according to our Catholic heritage:”
 
People are more educated and have access to more information now, than at any other time in history. It means they have a lot more choices, and a lot more opportunities to look at life and their existence through different lenses. It makes sense there wouldn’t be as many (Christian) believers now. There are so many other options that weren’t really a thing even 15 or 20 years ago.
 
Thank you for telling us about this book. I’m going to buy it. I’m sure it’ll help me understand what has happened in the West. Although the book is about America, I’m sure a lot is relevant to my country, the UK.
 
Yes, the UK and the rest of western Europe is considered to be The West, along with North America. The spread of harmful choices by some people has had an effect. I’m glad you found this book helpful. I lived through the time period in question. Starting in the mid-1960s, strangers came to our neighborhoods. We were taught to welcome strangers but they abused our trust and good natures. They preached their idea of living: use illegal drugs, which they could supply, reject your parents and your Church. Have sex with anybody. The freedom being offered was designed to destroy families. Living with and having sex with your girlfriend was another false freedom.

As time passed, others would promote contraception and then abortion. Bad behaviors would be presented on TV and in movies. The Body of Christ on earth was slowly, gradually poisoned. I watched it happen and it pained me to see the poison being spread.
 
To back up for a moment, what statistics, what report are you reading?

Before we can realistically discuss the conclusions, we need to access the same source.
 
Two factors I see:
  1. The pressures by society to maintain a visible religious presence are no longer there. There was a time where expressing a disbelief or even doubt in public had serious consequences. That no longer is the case.
  2. A proliferation of knowledge of other cultures, especially via television and the internet, has shown that there are other ways. Myths about those cultures can be disproven. Seeing similarities between faiths can show how a particular faith is not unique in some ways. Seeing differences between faiths can show the positives and negatives of those faiths. Just being able to see and read apologetics of faith not one’s own can move people (this is true in moving people towards Christianity as well as away from it).
 
I read the following on another site: “You people no longer have the influence you once did.” The pressure by radicals to discredit Christianity only increased since the late 1960s.

A proliferation of knowledge about other cultures? In the early 1960s, we were given thin cardboard tubes to drop coins into so they could be sent to Africa. There were wide, metal-topped containers for the same purpose. The Poor Box in the front of the Church was also there.

Television before 1970 was clean and wholesome. A group of people decided to start presenting dysfunctional families in 1971. This was planned, and the worst was yet to come. The Catholic Church did what it could with movies.

https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Cinema-National-Catholic-1933-1970/dp/0275941930
 
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edwest211 said:
I read the following on another site: “You people no longer have the influence you once did.”
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It’s a true statement, although people may debate how much influenced was lost. There would also be a debate as to how positive and negative that drop in influence is.
The pressure by radicals to discredit Christianity only increased since the late 1960s.
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I’m assuming you’re using the terms “radicals” and “discredit” pejoratively. For the first, anyone looking to make major changes to the world is a radical. Christians and non-Christians would agree, for example, that Jesus was a radical. For the second, it’s only natural for someone holding one position to try and show the folly of a differing position. Discredit may not be the most apt term, but it’s in the right ballpark. Disprove also doesn’t quite work either, but you get the point. Democrats and Republicans try to show why the other is wrong. People of differing faiths (and no faith) try to show why the others are wrong.

But the point I’m trying to make is that such discrediting, disproving, etc. is perfectly fine so long as it’s honest. If the thing being dissected is true, then it should be able to survive such scrutiny even stronger.
A proliferation of knowledge about other cultures? In the early 1960s, we were given thin cardboard tubes to drop coins into so they could be sent to Africa. There were wide, metal-topped containers for the same purpose. The Poor Box in the front of the Church was also there.
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While we should be extremely thankful for the efforts to help the peoples of Africa, I wouldn’t say it’s gaining any knowledge of other cultures. And let me be perfectly clear: Those efforts to help people aren’t and weren’t required to gain said knowledge. I’m just saying it’s not an answer to the point I gave about increased knowledge of other cultures reducing the amount of Catholics in the West.
Television before 1970 was clean and wholesome. A group of people decided to start presenting dysfunctional families in 1971. This was planned, and the worst was yet to come. The Catholic Church did what it could with movies.
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Again, I think this misses the point I made about people learning about other cultures via television and the internet. Whether it’s wholesome or not is beside the point. A lot of the earlier TV and movies, if they even presented other cultures at all, tended to do so as kind of a look-at-those-weird-people-in-their-primitive-ways method.

There were definite exceptions. I’m a fan of WWII movies, and “Go For Broke” did a great job of pointing out different motivations for Americans with Asian heritage as to why they fought, and not show their cultures and beliefs under a single tent. I remember an episode of Quincy where I learned more about Buddhism than I had from school (One of Sam’s relatives died mysteriously. Quincy wanted an autopsy, but that branch of Buddhism forbid it.)

As people learn more they tend to choose what they think is the right faith, instead of just following with the one of their family or in their neighborhood.
 
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