E
edwest211
Guest
I am concerned about the Left in Europe.
- Status
A
Athanasiy
Guest
The problem is that a conservative community in Western Europe is not so easy to find. (Except for the Roman Catholic, which is officially of course- conservative).
In the Benelux countries, for exanple sometimes, it is very rare but you can see a white woman (as an indigenous people-Dutch,Belgic)in an Islamic headscarf.
Sometimes Europeans convert to Islam because of this contrast between all-permissiveness and high morals.
It is really sad when Islam becomes an alternative, rather than traditional Christianity.
Of course, Christian communities are alive, but it is more and more problematic to find, for example, a Protestant community with traditional, fundamental Christian beliefs. (for example, with regard to sexual morality, and beliefs in this matter)
In the Benelux countries, for exanple sometimes, it is very rare but you can see a white woman (as an indigenous people-Dutch,Belgic)in an Islamic headscarf.
Sometimes Europeans convert to Islam because of this contrast between all-permissiveness and high morals.
It is really sad when Islam becomes an alternative, rather than traditional Christianity.
Of course, Christian communities are alive, but it is more and more problematic to find, for example, a Protestant community with traditional, fundamental Christian beliefs. (for example, with regard to sexual morality, and beliefs in this matter)
Last edited:
A
Athanasiy
Guest
What gives optimism is the emigre communities from the third world who live in the west.
In past centuries, Western colonists fertilized those nations with divine revelation.
Today, Christianity flourishes in many of those nations, but also thanks to them it still lives in a conservative spirit in the west.
In past centuries, Western colonists fertilized those nations with divine revelation.
Today, Christianity flourishes in many of those nations, but also thanks to them it still lives in a conservative spirit in the west.
E
edwest211
Guest
A priest in a wealthy community said the following on Catholic Radio: “Jesus came to comfort the afflicted. I am trying to afflict the comfortable.”
N
Neithan
Guest
In postmodern culture, in which we are now so deeply steeped (think of the frog in boiling water) that we find it difficult to understand: everything is a struggle for power, money and pleasure. As someone born and raised in western culture, I think I can find an answer to this postmodern apostasy by careful self-discernment. Why am I tempted not to go to church anymore? Because I have been taught that I decide what is good and true for myself, and to submit to an authority is “conformity” and weakness. Financial concerns have thrown me into a desperate struggle for material goods. And pleasure is easily accessible, easier than at any time in history, and free of consequences (at least at first, but actually, leading to addiction). Submitting my mind, money and pursuit of pleasure to a corrupt institution? That doesn’t seem very attractive. If I didn’t have faith, I certainly would stop going to church, it’s easy.
Another question is, why do most people lack faith? And that question is not unique to our time. The gospel requires profound humility: intellectual, volitional and emotional submission. It’s a theological virtue, a gift, and not something we can take up or give up, only be open to receive, or not. I think we live in a time of selfish existentialism, and that is an exercise of free will (so, the Protestant doctrine of irresistible grace is probably not true). Someone above said they don’t believe the “narrative” because of experience, history and science, but that can’t be the case, it’s an excuse; our education and experiences can just as easily support faith. St. Thomas Aquinas said if the human person will not seek spiritual joy, they will settle for material pleasure, and that’s just what is happening, finally, and it has been a long time coming. In the Roman Empire, during the era of persecution, an estimated 10% of the population was Christian at its peak. After it became the “official” religion the numbers grew and grew, but that’s a reflection of people following the culture, not authentic faith. See what happens when the culture is officially secular.
Another question is, why do most people lack faith? And that question is not unique to our time. The gospel requires profound humility: intellectual, volitional and emotional submission. It’s a theological virtue, a gift, and not something we can take up or give up, only be open to receive, or not. I think we live in a time of selfish existentialism, and that is an exercise of free will (so, the Protestant doctrine of irresistible grace is probably not true). Someone above said they don’t believe the “narrative” because of experience, history and science, but that can’t be the case, it’s an excuse; our education and experiences can just as easily support faith. St. Thomas Aquinas said if the human person will not seek spiritual joy, they will settle for material pleasure, and that’s just what is happening, finally, and it has been a long time coming. In the Roman Empire, during the era of persecution, an estimated 10% of the population was Christian at its peak. After it became the “official” religion the numbers grew and grew, but that’s a reflection of people following the culture, not authentic faith. See what happens when the culture is officially secular.
Last edited:
E
edwest211
Guest
The mainstream media is the new ministry of propaganda. It’s hard to read, much less watch, any general news outlet. Only specialized information sources seem to be mostly unaffected. Starting in 1970, the media got a little bad and then a little more and a little more, and here we are. Some of us are still repulsed by it, speak against it and warn others. All of this leads some people to think and sometimes do the wrong things. Or to think: whatever brings me pleasure is all that matters.
Or: “I don’t want to feel guilty or ashamed or sinful ever again.” That’s not freedom. That is running away from God.
Or: “I don’t want to feel guilty or ashamed or sinful ever again.” That’s not freedom. That is running away from God.
A
AlNg
Guest
"The Vatican has released the Annuarium Statisticum Ecclesiae 2016, the most current version of Church statistics.
According to the report, there are now 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide…"
It is great that there are so many Catholics now. However, I read that according to recent polls a majority of Catholics support abortion and SS marriage, at least in the US? Are you still a faithful Catholic if you support things like that?
According to the report, there are now 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide…"
It is great that there are so many Catholics now. However, I read that according to recent polls a majority of Catholics support abortion and SS marriage, at least in the US? Are you still a faithful Catholic if you support things like that?
J
joyfulandactive
Guest
Regarding Western Europe the two World Wars which wiped out generations of young men and left civilian populations devastated had a huge effect on the rise of cynicism and atheism.
WW I in particular was massively detrimental to what had been the populations trust in authority and the status quo. Industrialized war which left the Western Front in a stalemate for years while literally hundreds of thousands were mowed down in a day for no purpose caused an enormous disillusionment. Working class soldiers witnessed the upper classes as senior officers, their so-called betters, staying far from the Front eating well and living comfortably while sending them and their compatriots to be slaughtered, destroyed any trust that these people had their best interests at heart.
During WW 1 food was running out for German soldiers and civilians. When the war was over many farmers in France and Germany found their farmland devastated.
Then we had the Great Depression and a second World War. America obviously did not have the wars on their soil although many thousands served and many died in Europe.
I am a devout Catholic but it’s not hard to see how God could’ve been seen as a nice fairytale in the face of such appalling suffering, which affected virtually every family in numerous nations in Western Europe. Once the Holocaust was revealed the same angst affected Christians and Jews horrified at what “civilized” European nations were capable of.
The Popes and church leaders of the first half of the twentieth century became very concerned about various ideologies and changes in morality affecting society way before Vatican II. Communism, Socialism, Modernism, Materialism and the questioning of traditional morality across the board did not suddenly happen with Vatican II. The church was unfortunately also often seen as being reactionary and on the sides of the elites who had caused the Wars and were resisting ordinary people expanding their civil rights in some European nations.
WW I in particular was massively detrimental to what had been the populations trust in authority and the status quo. Industrialized war which left the Western Front in a stalemate for years while literally hundreds of thousands were mowed down in a day for no purpose caused an enormous disillusionment. Working class soldiers witnessed the upper classes as senior officers, their so-called betters, staying far from the Front eating well and living comfortably while sending them and their compatriots to be slaughtered, destroyed any trust that these people had their best interests at heart.
During WW 1 food was running out for German soldiers and civilians. When the war was over many farmers in France and Germany found their farmland devastated.
Then we had the Great Depression and a second World War. America obviously did not have the wars on their soil although many thousands served and many died in Europe.
I am a devout Catholic but it’s not hard to see how God could’ve been seen as a nice fairytale in the face of such appalling suffering, which affected virtually every family in numerous nations in Western Europe. Once the Holocaust was revealed the same angst affected Christians and Jews horrified at what “civilized” European nations were capable of.
The Popes and church leaders of the first half of the twentieth century became very concerned about various ideologies and changes in morality affecting society way before Vatican II. Communism, Socialism, Modernism, Materialism and the questioning of traditional morality across the board did not suddenly happen with Vatican II. The church was unfortunately also often seen as being reactionary and on the sides of the elites who had caused the Wars and were resisting ordinary people expanding their civil rights in some European nations.
E
edwest211
Guest
I cannot judge someone’s faith. I watched the attacks on the Church and on everyday Catholics starting in the mid-1960s. False preachers came into our neighborhoods telling us illegal drugs were OK, sex with anyone was OK and “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” which excluded them. Then in the 1970s, so-called Adult Bookstores appeared everywhere. Who paid for all that is an open question but the planned addictions occurred. In the United States, dysfunctional TV began to appear starting in 1970. And it just got worse as the years passed. Abortion was legalized by the Supreme Court in 1973 based on false information. The petitioner did not even get an abortion. Everything possible was done to normalize immoral and wrong behaviors.
“Support” for anything means every effort is made to ‘get the numbers up.’ In the case of same-sex marriage, that included going door to door.
“Support” for anything means every effort is made to ‘get the numbers up.’ In the case of same-sex marriage, that included going door to door.
Last edited:
J
joyfulandactive
Guest
Regarding changes in society in the 1960s it was quite a historically unique period in America, particularly demographically. The BabyBoom generation was the biggest generation EVER in American history. In the early 20th century American families were shrinking and economic insecurity encouraged people to marry later. The prosperity in America after the second world war encouraged people to marry young and have an average of four babies. As a result the BabyBoomers swamped their parents and grandparents generations in sheer numbers. The young were suddenly the largest group by a very long way, so not surprisingly when they came of age society seemed to “suddenly” be obsessed with youth issues and youth concerns together with an idealism and perhaps a naivety. It was sudden and it was unusual. This generation was also growing up in economic boom years and so had money, transportation and new technology at their disposal (TV, electric instruments). What this young generation cared about did dominate because they were massive numerically. It was a perfect storm of more social freedom combined with ideology that actually a lot of their parents were sympathetic to (the literature of the 1930s-50s reflects this). Rejecting older generations and their ideas is nothing new, it was just more spectacular in its impact because of the demographics and prosperity of that time period.
Last edited:
E
edwest211
Guest
Much of this information is just wrong. There was nothing unique about it. As I wrote, false preachers came into our neighborhoods. I was there and I was totally unconcerned about any issues. In the mid-1960s, we welcomed the strangers but all they wanted to do was to influence us and be bad examples. As it happened, Playboy was the worst you could legally do, not counting “girlie mag.s” that were literally sold under the counter in liquor stores. How did they get there? Who paid to open so-called Adult Bookstores everywhere? Who paid the rent? for the printing? And those who created dysfunctional TV shows in the United States? Was that a Catholic idea? No. It was another attack on the family.
E
edwest211
Guest
That’s just nonsense. I saw what was happening and it was no conspiracy. Radical anarchists are always there to catch the young in their traps.
S
Sarcelle
Guest
So the Virgin Mary calls people to repent of their sins, amend their life and look to Jesus once more or face the consequences, one of them being a world war.
Some people did repent and heeded her words, the majority did not.
The consequences came and those who repented were punished alongside those that didn’t. In fact those that did lead a faithful were punished even more, like those Catholics that died in the Nazi concentration camps.
Why even bother to repent when you’ll get punished anyway?
Some people did repent and heeded her words, the majority did not.
The consequences came and those who repented were punished alongside those that didn’t. In fact those that did lead a faithful were punished even more, like those Catholics that died in the Nazi concentration camps.
Why even bother to repent when you’ll get punished anyway?
Last edited:
P
Pattylt
Guest
What city did you live in? I was born in 1952. I’m a boomer. I lived my teen and young adult years in Dayton, OH.
I never saw what you saw. I did see major changes in my age group from those earlier. In my area the issues were the rejection of authority figures as we saw the lies they were trying to feed us, particularly Vietnam Nam. The generation before mine believed everything the politicians and media were telling us. My generation that actually went to Vietnam Nam came back with a very different story. The ensuing distrust went viral and we started questioning everything. The media was lying to us way before 1970.
The pill allowed morality to change. Without the consequences of pregnancy, the sexual revolution began. I don’t deny this but a medical breakthrough only sped up the breakdown of morality. It didn’t cause it alone.
My generation also questioned race. Why couldn’t blacks and whites co-mingle and marry. Our white boys were dying side by side with black boys and society wanted to keep the races separate but equal?
It was a perfect storm for change. Huge numbers of kids with spending money meant advertisers focused on us. Politicians lying created great mistrust in authorities…of all kinds. If you can’t trust your government, how can you trust your preacher, your parents, etc.
Final comment on door to door evangelizing of the homosexual agenda? I’d need some evidence of THAT happening. From my perspective all the homosexuals did is come out of the closet and show society how many there were and that they were our family members and neighbors. They started calling for equal treatment under the law and society at large started agreeing with them. No great conspiracy that I could see. They just refused to stay hidden.
I never saw what you saw. I did see major changes in my age group from those earlier. In my area the issues were the rejection of authority figures as we saw the lies they were trying to feed us, particularly Vietnam Nam. The generation before mine believed everything the politicians and media were telling us. My generation that actually went to Vietnam Nam came back with a very different story. The ensuing distrust went viral and we started questioning everything. The media was lying to us way before 1970.
The pill allowed morality to change. Without the consequences of pregnancy, the sexual revolution began. I don’t deny this but a medical breakthrough only sped up the breakdown of morality. It didn’t cause it alone.
My generation also questioned race. Why couldn’t blacks and whites co-mingle and marry. Our white boys were dying side by side with black boys and society wanted to keep the races separate but equal?
It was a perfect storm for change. Huge numbers of kids with spending money meant advertisers focused on us. Politicians lying created great mistrust in authorities…of all kinds. If you can’t trust your government, how can you trust your preacher, your parents, etc.
Final comment on door to door evangelizing of the homosexual agenda? I’d need some evidence of THAT happening. From my perspective all the homosexuals did is come out of the closet and show society how many there were and that they were our family members and neighbors. They started calling for equal treatment under the law and society at large started agreeing with them. No great conspiracy that I could see. They just refused to stay hidden.
Last edited:
V
Vico
Guest
Mark 4
The next section has the commentary that Jesus gave about it: http://www.usccb.org/bible/mark/4
Last edited:
E
edwest211
Guest
I was there in the mid-1960s. We had mostly good neighbors and friendly people all around. I remember my dad working on the car and a neighbor usually came by to help or for a little conversation. The atmosphere was one of community, and neighbors who were good neighbors, for the most part. It wasn’t perfect but we didn’t lock our doors at night. Every summer, one of the stay at home moms would take a bunch of us to the local play field. We had fun. I also noticed the black and yellow civil defense signs, including one on our school gym. I knew what an ICBM could do but I didn’t lose a second of sleep over it. We had lots of fun doing simple things like going to the park.
I lived in a working-class area. We didn’t all go to the same church but we had shared values. We were taught to respect our elders, and to be polite and respectful in general. Then the strangers appeared in our neighborhoods with their false gospel. Take illegal drugs, live with your girlfriend, have sex with anybody. Mom and dad were squares. Ignore the Church. “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” except them of course.
The Pill was not a medical breakthrough. Most women didn’t want it. My mom called it useless, and the average number of kids for miles around was 2. The Pill was a product that began to be marketed in 1967, just in time for the horrible ‘sex - without love - revolution.’ Most people did not live in large cities at the time.
The people who were trying to sell us corruption - which they called ‘freedom’ - were the liars. The anarchists organized sit-ins, they were uncivilized, and they could get you the dope they were pushing. All part of the plan to pollute your mind and help you forget that life meant responsibility, being a good citizen and someone who followed Christ. Instead, on college campuses or nearby, books on Eastern mysticism appeared out of nowhere. I didn’t need or want any of that, but it did serve as a distraction.
Vietnam? After the Tet Offensive, troops started to be pulled out in 1969. "Peace talks’ were going on and US bombing campaigns got the message across to the enemy that they should continue the peace process. They played politics with the lives of soldiers in country. Meanwhile, marijuana and other drugs were available. A friend of mine was in a mortar platoon. I knew all I needed to know. Finally, in April 1975 it all ended. I watched the helicopters picking up people off the roof of the US Embassy. I also watched as the decks of some aircraft carriers became overloaded and some choppers were pushed overboard to make room.
This was a planned, coordinated effort to destroy the family and to minimize the Church’s role in our daily lives. It continues today. And things have not gotten better. The radicals are losing.
I lived in a working-class area. We didn’t all go to the same church but we had shared values. We were taught to respect our elders, and to be polite and respectful in general. Then the strangers appeared in our neighborhoods with their false gospel. Take illegal drugs, live with your girlfriend, have sex with anybody. Mom and dad were squares. Ignore the Church. “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” except them of course.
The Pill was not a medical breakthrough. Most women didn’t want it. My mom called it useless, and the average number of kids for miles around was 2. The Pill was a product that began to be marketed in 1967, just in time for the horrible ‘sex - without love - revolution.’ Most people did not live in large cities at the time.
The people who were trying to sell us corruption - which they called ‘freedom’ - were the liars. The anarchists organized sit-ins, they were uncivilized, and they could get you the dope they were pushing. All part of the plan to pollute your mind and help you forget that life meant responsibility, being a good citizen and someone who followed Christ. Instead, on college campuses or nearby, books on Eastern mysticism appeared out of nowhere. I didn’t need or want any of that, but it did serve as a distraction.
Vietnam? After the Tet Offensive, troops started to be pulled out in 1969. "Peace talks’ were going on and US bombing campaigns got the message across to the enemy that they should continue the peace process. They played politics with the lives of soldiers in country. Meanwhile, marijuana and other drugs were available. A friend of mine was in a mortar platoon. I knew all I needed to know. Finally, in April 1975 it all ended. I watched the helicopters picking up people off the roof of the US Embassy. I also watched as the decks of some aircraft carriers became overloaded and some choppers were pushed overboard to make room.
This was a planned, coordinated effort to destroy the family and to minimize the Church’s role in our daily lives. It continues today. And things have not gotten better. The radicals are losing.
Last edited:
P
Pattylt
Guest
Who are these “strangers” you keep mentioning? I know there were drug pushers but they were usually found in the downtown area, not the neighborhoods.
Yes, there was a breakdown from the older members of society and the upcoming boomers but from what I witnessed it was mostly due to a breakdown in trust of the authorities from that older generation. I’m just trying to figure out who you think was involved in this conspiracy?
Yes, there was a breakdown from the older members of society and the upcoming boomers but from what I witnessed it was mostly due to a breakdown in trust of the authorities from that older generation. I’m just trying to figure out who you think was involved in this conspiracy?
E
edwest211
Guest
They called themselves by various names: radicals, dissidents, Hippies and others. A little reminder of the period. “Head Shops” - as in dope head - appeared in our neighborhoods. They sold Communist/Anarchist underground newspapers and encouraged ‘sticking it to the man,’ or performing dirty tricks to hurt the rich in some way. They usually wore distinctive clothing like a uniform. Peace symbols worn around the neck or sewn onto jackets, but they weren’t about peace. “We’ll burn this country down if we have to!” It was their country now or soon would be. Filled with dope, sexual immorality and general disrespect. Mom and dad called their son, “Son, if you love the girl, why don’t you marry her? Me and your mom didn’t encourage you to live in sin. And no, this is not about us but about God. The Church didn’t teach you to live this way.” But, of course, mom and dad did not understand this new ‘freedom’ granted by total strangers - who encouraged this. If you complained, you got an earful: “Leave us alone!!! We’re grown adults!!! We’ll do what we want!!!”
I heard a man in his early 20s say the following today: “I will ******* do whatever the **** I want.”
Better? No. But music to the ears of radicals and anarchists who promoted this change of heart for decades.
I heard a man in his early 20s say the following today: “I will ******* do whatever the **** I want.”
Better? No. But music to the ears of radicals and anarchists who promoted this change of heart for decades.
- Status