Why is there not a single Protestant Understanding of the Bible?

[PRmerger]

I think PRmrger gave you an excellent response in #523.

Oh, p-shaw, Tom. P-shaw!

 

[PRmerger]

But the RCC teaches those who choose to leave the Church ,will loose their salvation, since OCAC and well they are not participating in the sacraments, now I assume thats why the RCC believes they loose their salvation.

It’s interesting to note, that in its 2000 year history, with its battles with heretics and heresy, with its history of notoriously BAD men as popes, with its imperfections and foibles and sins, that the Catholic Church has never, EVER, had the temerity to declare someone to be in HELL.

Never.

This speaks volumes.

Even with all of its weaknesses as a hospital for sinners the Church, in her wisdom, has not been willing to step into this arena of judging one’s eternal destiny.

 

[Anthony_V]

It’s interesting to note, that in its 2000 year history, with its battles with heretics and heresy, with its history of notoriously BAD men as popes, with its imperfections and foibles and sins, that the Catholic Church has never, EVER, had the temerity to declare someone to be in HELL.

Never.

This speaks volumes.

Even with all of its weaknesses as a hospital for sinners the Church, in her wisdom, has not been willing to step into this arena of judging one’s eternal destiny.

Well said. Very well said, actually.

 

[PRmerger]

Well said. Very well said, actually.

Oh, p-shaw to you, too!

 

[Luvtosew]

It’s interesting to note, that in its 2000 year history, with its battles with heretics and heresy, with its history of notoriously BAD men as popes, with its imperfections and foibles and sins, that the Catholic Church has never, EVER, had the temerity to declare someone to be in HELL.

Never.

This speaks volumes.

Even with all of its weaknesses as a hospital for sinners the Church, in her wisdom, has not been willing to step into this arena of judging one’s eternal destiny.

Glad to see you admit the RCC has not always been without fault, and good to hear it has not overstepped its jusisdiction of declaring who is in hell, although they know who is in heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

Glad to see you admit the RCC has not always been without fault, and good to hear it has not overstepped its jusisdiction of declaring who is in hell, although they know who is in heaven.

Oh, Luv, if only you were familiar with your Catechism, you would not have wasted any time making this comment.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“The Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real** though imperfect.**” CCC 825

You really had no idea about this?

 

[Luvtosew]

Oh, Luv, if only you were familiar with your Catechism, you would not have wasted any time making this comment.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“The Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real** though imperfect.**” CCC 825

You really had no idea about this?

No I don’t have the RCC cathechism memorized. Darn, a well informed RC is never at a loss for answers and whats amazing is the RCC has an answer for everything under the sun.

 

[CMatt25]

Matt, you are emphasizing the wrong phrase. The critical part is the “knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ”, not the “could not” part.

Even the Catholic Church, with all the authority given to her by Our Lord, cannot read a man’s heart and see what a man “knows”.

Thus, the CC has never declared that anyone who has left the CC was not saved.

Unless you’re aware of something that I’m not? If so, could you please share what person the Church declared to be in hell, since this person was** knowingly** rejecting Christ and His Body.

PR, ok so to emphasize just those words of CCC you want me to emphasize, where does the Catholic Church say Catholics (theologically of course, not idiomatically) end up who did believe they knew the Church was necessary, but who had a change in belief, and who did not repent the change in their faith according to your beliefs before they died?

Now yes yes I know some Catholics will say the above mentioned Catholics are commiting grave sin and it is not the Church but those Catholics themselves who are judging themselves to hell. But if the Protestant who never had the understanding of knowing the Church was needed is not held to the same standard, why would the Catholic who had a change in beliefs be told they (depending on the tense) could not or can not be saved?

(Sorry PR for emphasizing that last part in my 2nd paragraph. But I’m trying to connect all the phrases)

 

[andrewstx]

Hi, Andrewstx,

Glad to be helpful

Spring is a nice place … but, getting used to the traffic and Houston drivers is not for the faint of heart… Hmmmmm … very soon my wife and I will be moving back to Louisiana - maybe that is … ‘faint heart syndrome’…

While I have not met your friends, I hope they enjoy their relocation to Spring.

God bless

They are from Maine and NYC origianny so they would be used to the crazy traffic. La is nice but sooo hot and humid. You should move to a cooler and dryer climate in a smaller city to the west.

 

[CMatt25]

A Catholic who leaves the Church to become protestant and does not revert is, indirectly, but by necessity, damned. However, because most protestants (save Anglican/Episcopal) don’t believe the sacraments are the main economy of grace (if they believe in the sacraments at all), they would have no problem with leaving the Church, because they can mentally satisfy their convictions about the Church being wrong and their fears about the Church being right all in one sitting. Voila, you have a conversion.

I’m not sure I’m understanding exactly what you’re saying. Because what about Catholics who had faith they knew the Church was necessary. But as with Protestants, came later to believe the Church is wrong. Yet these Catholics could also have fears of what if the Church is right. These would be the theologically Catholic but as ya’ll like to refer to as idiomatically “not Catholics”. They it would seem could have a difficult time satisfying themselves mentally in either case, whether “leaving” or not leaving.

 

[CMatt25]

Makes my brain go…:whacky:

Doesn’t affect my brain in the same way. I just understand people have different faiths. Not everyone is going to end up exactly right on everything of course in that case. But that’s part of calling it faith.

 

[maplebug55]

I have wondered the same thing. But I also wonder how so many catholics have so many different opinons on what the church teaches also. Especially living together and birth control.
That one seems to be NON believed by at least 80% of catholics. And 80% is probably a LOW estimate!!

 

[CMatt25]

I have seen too many folks who have come to the CAFs and say they were offended by something the Church, or an orthodox Catholic poster has said end up re-verting or converting to be convinced by the above comment, Matt. Indeed, just a few pages back Newsy made the exact argument I’m offering here.

Well I’m certainly glad for Newsy and the many you have seen who have been offended yet found their path on which to walk. I’m just not sure that includes everyone though PR who come.

 

[CMatt25]

I have wondered the same thing. But I also wonder how so many catholics have so many different opinons on what the church teaches also. Especially living together and birth control.
That one seems to be NON believed by at least 80% of catholics. And 80% is probably a LOW estimate!!

I personally know some of these Catholics though I don’t know the exact percentage overall. I’ve seen stats of 98% using ABC and stats that Catholics use ABC about the same as the rest of the population. I know Chris Matthews on his “Hardball” show this wk said he doesn’t see many families of 8 in the pews nowadays and he doesn’t think it’s all the rhythm method. But if that’s the case then are 80% or more of Catholics only theologically Cathlolics, aka as “Catholics” here? That seems to be a huge percentage for the Church to be identifying/ counting them as Catholics. So the Church is actually far smaller than the numbers given?

 

[PRmerger]

No I don’t have the RCC cathechism memorized.

Memorization is not necessary, Luv.

Familiarity, which is only that which I have, is.

You don’t even have a minimal familiarity with what the Church teaches. Probably not your fault, though. The Church, in the past, did an abysmal job catechizing her flock.

But now it’s *your *responsibility.

Especially now that you’re on the CAFs, you ought not be saying, “The Catholic Church teaches” unless you know what she does, and can cite where she does.

BTW, you do know that RCC stands for “Roman Catholic Church”, right?

And that’s an INCORRECT term for what you mean when you’re describing the Church.

For the Church is not Roman, Luv. The Church is the One Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church. The Roman (or Latin) rite is only one of 23 rites in the Church, all which are loyal to the Bishop of Rome.

(The Bishop of Rome is the Pope).

 

[PRmerger]

PR, ok so to emphasize just those words of CCC you want me to emphasize, where does the Catholic Church say Catholics (theologically of course, not idiomatically) end up who did believe they knew the Church was necessary, but who had a change in belief, and who did not repent the change in their faith according to your beliefs before they died?

The Church does not say. *

That is, of course, above her pay grade.

• (Unless you have some documentation from the Magisterium that says that the Church knows?)

Now yes yes I know some Catholics will say the above mentioned Catholics are commiting grave sin and it is not the Church but those Catholics themselves who are judging themselves to hell. But if the Protestant who never had the understanding of knowing the Church was needed is not held to the same standard,

Of course they are held to the same standard.

They’re just starting from a different place on the racetrack. Further back.

why would the Catholic who had a change in beliefs be told they (depending on the tense) could not or can not be saved?

Because “to whom much is given, much will be required.”

 

[CMatt25]

No I don’t have the RCC cathechism memorized. Darn, a well informed RC is never at a loss for answers and whats amazing is the RCC has an answer for everything under the sun.

I think some people have a need to be given the answers. And others perhaps just like to reason with their minds and think about them more.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m not sure I’m understanding exactly what you’re saying. Because what about Catholics who had faith they knew the Church was necessary. But as with Protestants, came later to believe the Church is wrong. Yet these Catholics could also have fears of what if the Church is right. These would be the theologically Catholic but as ya’ll like to refer to as idiomatically “not Catholics”. They it would seem could have a difficult time satisfying themselves mentally in either case, whether “leaving” or not leaving.

Sounds just like some the the Apostles, no?

Some weren’t sure but clung to Jesus.

Some weren’t sure, and then when Jesus made some really difficult sayings, sayings that didn’t conform to their own ideas of what God would command, they left Him.

Some were absolutely certain, without ever a single doubt, and clung to Jesus.

So, pick your Apostle and decide what happened to him…that’s the answer.

 

[PRmerger]

Doesn’t affect my brain in the same way. I just understand people have different faiths. Not everyone is going to end up exactly right on everything of course in that case. But that’s part of calling it faith.

And if this is the paradigm, then those who espouse it can never declare anyone else’s beliefs wrong.

See this photo:
lgbtqnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/phelps.jpg

(warning: content is lewd and offensive, but is ostensibly offered by a “man of faith”… I also offer a disclaimer from the website that offers this photo–it is a pro-homosexual site, but the fact remains that this “man of faith” does indeed proclaim what is displayed in the sign.)

 

[PRmerger]

I have wondered the same thing. But I also wonder how so many catholics have so many different opinons on what the church teaches also. Especially living together and birth control.

You seem to be confusing orthopraxy with orthodoxy, maplebug.

What the Church proclaims ought not be confused with how some Catholics practice.