Why is there not a single Protestant Understanding of the Bible?

[Newsy]

Thank you I do not need coucil or Priestly help. God Bless You, your a very nice person I can tell. And yes I admit I’m 50/50 probably. I wasn’t when I first came to the
board, not sure whats happening here. But I"ll figure it out. I think I"m learning more than I wanted to or needed to, being a convert its probably different for you.

Sorry I’m late responding, my bed was calling me.

First, I did not intend to sound insulting, I was offering my advice. I offered that advice to help, please don’t think I was trying to imply anything or be rude.

I have the advantage of being a convert, but it doesn’t change everything. I have to look at historical facts and see if they fit the claims that are made. Whether or not I am a convert, doesn’t change the facts regarding Church History or anti-Catholic rhetoric. I haven’t been in the Church for decades, so I missed out on experiencing a lot that cradle Catholics experience. However, I can reason out claims either way. My Aunt accused the CC of chaining Bibles to the pulpits in the Dark Ages to keep people from reading it. That sounds possible, but that idea falls flat when you throw in historical facts. If there were no printing presses, then every book had to be copied by hand, this made them very expensive. If you take into account the fact that most people couldn’t read anyway, why would they bother keeping a book away from people who couldn’t read? Do you see the problem with her accusation? It gets really embarrassing when somebody points out the telephone companies used to chain telephone books to telephone booths, do you think it way to keep them away from people?

Your example is similar to the accusation made by my Aunt, it accuses the CC of evil, but it fails to address historical context. I pointed out, earlier, that if the version Wycliffe copied was full of poor translation and personal opinion, then it wasn’t much of a Bible. The CC was responsible for copying and translating thousands of copies of the Bible, I find it hard to believe they would burn Bibles to keep them out of the hand of laity unless they were full of errors.

I am sure your bother means well by informing you of these facts, I am just saying maybe you should do a little investigation on your own before you condemn the Catholic Church.

 

[rinnie]

I must say even being Catholic I thank John Wycliffe for translating the Bible, and I wonder why the early Church of Rome never wanted it be be read by people. The Church even burnt them so people couldn’t read them.

Okay now you blame the CC for burning the bible, but then they are the ones who put it together

The Church never did any such thing. The Church never told anyone to not read the bible. Please show something that ever said that.

The Church has always said if you cannot read the bible and understand it in the context it was read, it is better not to read it, then to try to interpret it for yourself. Because it takes YEARS of study to understand the words and the meanings.

 

[JonNC]

If Solo Scriptura is truly accurate in that not only is the Bible clear but that we could clearly understand it,then by test everyone with faith and effort should come to the same conclusions or at least a huge majority. Yet all the time I hear protestants say “that’s not what’s in the bible” when in discussion with Catholics even though no other protestant group may agree with them on their actual understanding. So why are there so many interpretations?

While I’m not a solo scripturist (Lutherans practice sola scriptura), I have just a comment. t is the case that those who claim Tradition and Scripture - Catholics, PNCC, Orthodoxy, Old Catholics - also have differing interpretations. Just sayin’.

Jon

 

[Luvtosew]

Sorry I’m late responding, my bed was calling me.

First, I did not intend to sound insulting, I was offering my advice. I offered that advice to help, please don’t think I was trying to imply anything or be rude.

I have the advantage of being a convert, but it doesn’t change everything. I have to look at historical facts and see if they fit the claims that are made. Whether or not I am a convert, doesn’t change the facts regarding Church History or anti-Catholic rhetoric. I haven’t been in the Church for decades, so I missed out on experiencing a lot that cradle Catholics experience. However, I can reason out claims either way. My Aunt accused the CC of chaining Bibles to the pulpits in the Dark Ages to keep people from reading it. That sounds possible, but that idea falls flat when you throw in historical facts. If there were no printing presses, then every book had to be copied by hand, this made them very expensive. If you take into account the fact that most people couldn’t read anyway, why would they bother keeping a book away from people who couldn’t read? Do you see the problem with her accusation? It gets really embarrassing when somebody points out the telephone companies used to chain telephone books to telephone booths, do you think it way to keep them away from people?

Your example is similar to the accusation made by my Aunt, it accuses the CC of evil, but it fails to address historical context. I pointed out, earlier, that if the version Wycliffe copied was full of poor translation and personal opinion, then it wasn’t much of a Bible. The CC was responsible for copying and translating thousands of copies of the Bible, I find it hard to believe they would burn Bibles to keep them out of the hand of laity unless they were full of errors.

I am sure your bother means well by informing you of these facts, I am just saying maybe you should do a little investigation on your own before you condemn the Catholic Church.

I understand, its getting my bedtime.

. No my brother has never told me anything, he has never once said anything neg about the CC. I read history myself. All I can say is the Church did’t want people to read the Bible in the early days, as you know even now one shouldn’t without CC teaching about it, its not to learn yourself, isn’t that the Church teaching. Never were we ever encouraged to read the Bible, and my family did have a old King James that no one read. Things are different nowdays, and now I see they even have Bible study, I guess if Catholics are going to read the Bible they want to make sure a Catholic interprets it right.

 

[Newsy]

I understand, its getting my bedtime.

. No my brother has never told me anything, he has never once said anything neg about the CC. I read history myself. All I can say is the Church did’t want people to read the Bible in the early days, as you know even now one shouldn’t without CC teaching about it, its not to learn yourself, isn’t that the Church teaching. Never were we ever encouraged to read the Bible, and my family did have a old King James that no one read. Things are different nowdays, and now I see they even have Bible study, I guess if Catholics are going to read the Bible they want to make sure a Catholic interprets it right.

Again, where have they ever said we shouldn’t read the Bible? Many don’t, but that has no implication on what the CC teaches. I understand there is a whole generation that thinks, “to be a good Catholic, all I have to do is go to Mass”, but that it flawed thinking. We are not called to “only attend Mass”, or even to live good lives, but we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news from our heavenly Father!

I misunderstood you earlier, I thought you said your protestant brother told you these things. Sorry:blush:

As far as I can find it, the Catholic stance has always been to interpret the Bible within the teaching of the CC. The CC teaches that it’s interpretation is protected from error and was handed down to us from the Apostles.

I pray you may rekindle your love for the Catholic faith, if it has been challenging lately.

Ok, I think I am done derailing this thread now, sorry.

 

[teresa_lamb]

I was actually born Catholic, not a convert.

Most people were illiterate until well after the Dark Ages, agree? No I don’t agree with that, how did people read the torah, don’t know why people think people were so illerate back then.

Why did they not want people to read the Bible, because they wanted control. they wanted to be the authority, they did not want people to know the bible just the Church teaching , just like the Cathechism thrumps the Bible nowdays also. Nothing has changed, except the Bible is everywhere now days.

Not good with copy/paste but thought this would help.

Years ago I was told the same story as you…think I might have believed it…too many years ago now to remember.

catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=1007

 

[Luvtosew]

Again, where have they ever said we shouldn’t read the Bible? Many don’t, but that has no implication on what the CC teaches. I understand there is a whole generation that thinks, “to be a good Catholic, all I have to do is go to Mass”, but that it flawed thinking. We are not called to “only attend Mass”, or even to live good lives, but we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news from our heavenly Father!

You know you should of grown up in the 50’s, never mind, I hate to be rude, but some of you converts really like to stomp on us oldies,

I** understand there is a whole generation that thinks, “to be a good Catholic, all I have to do is go to Mass”, but that it flawed thinking. We are not called to “only attend Mass”, or even to live good lives, but we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news from our heavenly Father!**

Really never knew we were called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news. and here I thought all I had to do was attend Mass, gee how stupid am I.

Man, I am at the point where I almost hate the thought of going to Mass, and wondering how I’m being judged by what I’m wearing, how I"m taking the Eucharist, and well if I bow my head or not, or if I’m standing in line properly, oh I take it in my hand is that ok? I wouldn’t want to upset yous.

I am glad the Church is raising and converting better Catholics nowdays, because they sure did a poor job with us old ones.

(PS: if there are spelling problems I"m sorry but its almost my bedtime)

 

[Newsy]

Again, where have they ever said we shouldn’t read the Bible? Many don’t, but that has no implication on what the CC teaches. I understand there is a whole generation that thinks, “to be a good Catholic, all I have to do is go to Mass”, but that it flawed thinking. We are not called to “only attend Mass”, or even to live good lives, but we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news from our heavenly Father!

You know you should of grown up in the 50’s, never mind, I hate to be rude, but some of you converts really like to stomp on us oldies,

I** understand there is a whole generation that thinks, “to be a good Catholic, all I have to do is go to Mass”, but that it flawed thinking. We are not called to “only attend Mass”, or even to live good lives, but we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news from our heavenly Father!**

Really never knew we were called to love our neighbors as ourselves and spread the good news. and here I thought all I had to do was attend Mass, gee how stupid am I.

Man, I am at the point where I almost hate the thought of going to Mass, and wondering how I’m being judged by what I’m wearing, how I"m taking the Eucharist, and well if I bow my head or not, or if I’m standing in line properly, oh I take it in my hand is that ok? I wouldn’t want to upset yous.

I am glad the Church is raising and converting better Catholics nowdays, because they sure did a poor job with us old ones.

(PS: if there are spelling problems I"m sorry but its almost my bedtime)

I am not “stomping on the oldies”. I have a great respect for those who have been in the faith longer than me. If you feel like you are being stomped on, that is not my intent. However, some people were poorly taught. Then after years of habit and misunderstanding, they assume that converts are “holier than thou”. I am not sure of your religious education, but if you have proof of any of your claims, please present them.

No one called you stupid. If anyone thinks that attending Mass is a substitute for living our faith, they are mistaken. Mass is where we encounter the Grace to live our faith. I am not sure why you feel so uncomfortable at Mass, but other’s opinions don’t matter. If you are upset by the people at Mass, to the point that you don’t want to go, is there another parish around?

We are derailing this thread, if you would like to continue this conversation, PM me.

 

[Luvtosew]

No one called you stupid. If anyone thinks that attending Mass is a substitute for living our faith, they are mistaken. Mass is where we encounter the Grace to live our faith. I am not sure why you feel so uncomfortable at Mass, but other’s opinions don’t matter. If you are upset by the people at Mass, to the point that you don’t want to go, is there another parish around?

No I was never uncomfortable at Mass.I never paid attention to what others were wearing or how others were taking the host, but I see some people here are talking about it a lot.
I really don’t think about the opinions of others much, but it seems some not all people are kinda judgemental here is what I’m saying. Your probably not one of those. No I’m done for tonight. God Bless you.

 

[PRmerger]

Again, where have they ever said we shouldn’t read the Bible?

Exactly. No Church teaching has ever proclaimed that we shouldn’t read the Bible.

That’s just ga-ga la-la nonsense that no one can provide any evidence for.

In fact, the Church states that the Scriptures are to be revered.
In fact, the Scriptures are read and proclaimed at each and every Mass.
In fact, the Bible was written by Catholics, for Catholics and preserved by Catholics.
In fact, the Church offers indulgences for prayerfully reading the Scriptures.

From the Catechism, quoting Dei Verbum:

[SIGN] “The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures as she venerated the Body of the Lord”[/SIGN]

 

[CopticChristian]

If Solo Scriptura is truly accurate in that not only is the Bible clear but that we could clearly understand it,then by test everyone with faith and effort should come to the same conclusions or at least a huge majority. Yet all the time I hear protestants say “that’s not what’s in the bible” when in discussion with Catholics even though no other protestant group may agree with them on their actual understanding. So why are there so many interpretations?

While there is much disagreement, there is agreement on particulars and disagreement on unessentials. The question is who decides what is and is not essential. The reality is that each individual is their own magesterium as there is no coroporate body that speaks for all.

 

[CopticChristian]

I understand, its getting my bedtime.

. No my brother has never told me anything, he has never once said anything neg about the CC. I read history myself. All I can say is the Church did’t want people to read the Bible in the early days, as you know even now one shouldn’t without CC teaching about it, its not to learn yourself, isn’t that the Church teaching. Never were we ever encouraged to read the Bible, and my family did have a old King James that no one read. Things are different nowdays, and now I see they even have Bible study, I guess if Catholics are going to read the Bible they want to make sure a Catholic interprets it right.

You might consider what happened when the Bible was read and everyone interpreted it to their own folly.

 

[Luvtosew]

You might consider what happened when the Bible was read and everyone interpreted it to their own folly.

what happened?

 

[Luvtosew]

Exactly. No Church teaching has ever proclaimed that we shouldn’t read the Bible.

That’s just ga-ga la-la nonsense that no one can provide any evidence for.

In fact, the Church states that the Scriptures are to be revered.
In fact, the Scriptures are read and proclaimed at each and every Mass.
In fact, the Bible was written by Catholics, for Catholics and preserved by Catholics.
In fact, the Church offers indulgences for prayerfully reading the Scriptures.

From the Catechism, quoting Dei Verbum:

[SIGN] “The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures as she venerated the Body of the Lord”[/SIGN]

PR: Maybe read the Baltimore Cathechism about reading the scriptures, I do see the church has taken a different stand on it since, wonder why? why was it not good back then, but now it is, just think of the the merit lost, as I read on this board one gets merit for reading the scriptures, a poster said, know don’t know if thats true or not, but posted by a Catholic. I see you say now you say its indulgences.

Maybe the Church venerated the scriptures, just not for lay people.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

If Solo Scriptura is truly accurate in that not only is the Bible clear but that we could clearly understand it,then by test everyone with faith and effort should come to the same conclusions or at least a huge majority. Yet all the time I hear protestants say “that’s not what’s in the bible” when in discussion with Catholics even though no other protestant group may agree with them on their actual understanding. So why are there so many interpretations?

Because Protestants don’t have the Magisterium, and therefore don’t have the same protection of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Luvtosew]

do you know what the Holy Spirit is, apparently not.

 

[PRmerger]

PR: Maybe read the Baltimore Cathechism about reading the scriptures,

I just did a search of the Baltimore Catechism and haven’t seen a single thing in there that says that Catholics are not permitted to read the Bible.

Perhaps you can offer the quote from there that you think says this?

pcpbooks.net/docs/baltimore_catechism.pdf

Remember, this is your original premise:

I All I can say is the Church did’t want people to read the Bible in the early days,

Please back it up.

 

[CopticChristian]

what happened?

Folley!

 

[PRmerger]

Maybe the Church venerated the scriptures, just not for lay people.

You have to offer some sort of documentation from the Magisterium that “lay people” are not permitted to read the Scriptures.

As I said, check the Baltimore Catechism (I already provided the site for you), and see if you can find any quote there that says Catholic lay people may not read the Scriptures.

If you can’t, it would be the noble thing for you to retract your statement, offer your apologies and start learning your faith a bit better.

 

[Luvtosew]

Folley!

did I mess up, probably, not all that computer savy. sorry.