Why is thinking about sex so terrible?

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Ok, I can see where it appears what I’ve been saying is prudish and restrictive…maybe I can help clarify…

It is in ‘right order’ for me, at 4:00 in the afternoon to glance to the right of my computer monitor at work at a picture of my husband…to have that image conjure up a memory of one of our more intimate sessions which makes me feel good and starts my motor running…but then I get back to work, anticipating my return home so I can follow through on what imagery was started earlier. I do not continue in my memory or my fantasy of anticipation at 4:00 without my husband. I wait until I get home to share my memory with my husband so that later that evening we can, together, fulfill what was started.

Was I thinking about sex at 4:00? Yes.
Did it feel good to think about it? Yes.
Was it a sin to do so? No
Why? Because it was in ‘right order’, I stopped, and followed through later that evening with my husband. It’s all part of the same act of marital embrace.
 
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lifeisbeautiful:
The catechism says:
“Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.”

So I don’t think it is obvious. If you seek the memories etc because of how they make you feel (if they cause sexual pleasure) then it is morally disordered.
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Why would anyone enjoy a memory if it didn’t make them feel GOOD?
There is nothing wrong with feeling good as long as the goal is not purely self-seeking.
Part of what makes ME feel good in thinking about lovemaking with my spouse is that I know it gives HIM pleasure and makes HIM feel loved to know that I am receiving pleasure from him.
It is circular and is meant to be.
Scripture says “it is in giving that we receive.”
Marital lovemaking is not a singular event strictly at the moment of intercourse.
It is an ongoing process throughout the day and night.
I cannot just turn on some “switch” one I hit the sack and be ready to go. Very rarely.
The events that occured throughout the day whether they are a smile from my spouse, a kiss, a love note, a kind deed or a whispered suggestive comment in my ear - are all build-ups to the big event if you will.
Good grief - read Song of Solomon in the bible! It is rife with anticipation and dreaming of lovemaking and even is considered erotic.
And this is the Word of God! Not dirty or lustful - but real. An insight into how God made us and designed us to “desire” to be with our beloved (spouse).

As with anything, prudence is required in marriage too lest you DO fall into “lust” - which is ONLY self-seeking.
But you can look forward to lovemaking with your spouse and think about it because it makes BOTH of you feel good - not only because it will make the other feel good. That would be scrupulous and denying the “obvious.” 😦
 
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LovedOne:
Why would anyone enjoy a memory if it didn’t make them feel GOOD?
There is nothing wrong with feeling good as long as the goal is not purely self-seeking.
Part of what makes ME feel good in thinking about lovemaking with my spouse is that I know it gives HIM pleasure and makes HIM feel loved to know that I am receiving pleasure from him.
It is circular and is meant to be.
Scripture says “it is in giving that we receive.”
Marital lovemaking is not a singular event strictly at the moment of intercourse.
It is an ongoing process throughout the day and night.
I cannot just turn on some “switch” one I hit the sack and be ready to go. Very rarely.
The events that occured throughout the day whether they are a smile from my spouse, a kiss, a love note, a kind deed or a whispered suggestive comment in my ear - are all build-ups to the big event if you will.
Good grief - read Song of Solomon in the bible! It is rife with anticipation and dreaming of lovemaking and even is considered erotic.
And this is the Word of God! Not dirty or lustful - but real. An insight into how God made us and designed us to “desire” to be with our beloved (spouse).

As with anything, prudence is required in marriage too lest you DO fall into “lust” - which is ONLY self-seeking.
But you can look forward to lovemaking with your spouse and think about it because it makes BOTH of you feel good - not only because it will make the other feel good. That would be scrupulous and denying the “obvious.” 😦
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Hey, I didn’t write the Catechism, 🙂 I just pointed out that if one seeks it because of the sexual pleasures it brings, it is morally disordered (according to what the Catechism says). BTW, following your logic, why would activities known to be only acceptable as foreplay be wrong if done without the marital act following them, if lovemaking was an ongoing process (day and night, no switches on and off)? I am not being sarcastic, just honestly trying to understand what you are presenting. In foreplay, one can be interested in pleasing the other, so it would not be merely self seeking, and it would make both feel good, yet we know the Church teaches us that if we seek this pleasure apart from unitive and procreative, it is morally disordered. BTW, I know sex is holy, it is not a dirty thing, and I know about the Song of Solomon, etc.

Sex is a wonderful thing, a gift from Heaven, but that does not mean you can sit around thinking about it because of the sexual pleasure thinking about it brings.

Like Ying Yang mom said, the thought came to mind, ok, but one doesn’t sit around fantasizing about it.
 
Oren said:
lol@cynic.
But ok, here’s an example of some of what I’m getting at. I don’t see how looking at pictures of guys (not naked pictures) but just say some actor or singer you think is hot, is wrong? Just seeing how they’re beautiful…is that wrong?? Does it go under the category of ‘temptation’? Cuz I just think if I didn’t do that, my life would feel really berreft of beauty.
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I think you are making a big deal out of really nothing. Looking at a picture and admiring someone’s beauty is not sinful. Looking at their picture and entertaining impure thoughts about that person is sinful. That is, fantasizing about sex with that person and conjuring up scenarios of sex. It is wrong because now what you will have done is reduced that person into an object for sexual gratification and missed the point of love. Love cannot be confined to just sex, it is much bigger than that.

I know your problem is not with pornography, but perhaps this will shed a little light on the Catholic position: John Paul II once said:
“The problem with pornography is not that it shows too much, the problem with pornography is that it doesn’t now show enough.” That is, pornography cannot show love, it cannot show the depth and meaning of the sexual union… but reduces it to an act separate from love and commitment.

I admire you for your struggles, with frustrations such as these many would just throw their arms up and say “forget it”. There
may be things that we sometimes don’t understand, but keep
praying about it and keep trying to understand.

I dunno, perhaps this may make a little sense. Let’s change the subject from sex to murder for a second. And what if the question was, instead of: “I know pre-marital sex is wrong, but what is wrong with fantasizing about it or thinking about it?” And change it to: “Murder is wrong, but what is so wrong of thinking about murdering people all the time… if I am not going to go out and ever do it?” I think, or hope, you would agree that, that is a warped way of thinking. It seems to me that, that person would not know the true meaning of murder. Likewise, to always be fantasizing about sex with a particular person would be to not fully understand the meaning and context of sex. Sex is a fulfillment of true love. To take it out of that context would be a lie with the language of the body. And it would reduce the person to a means of gratification. All forms of thought of sex are not equal and not always wrong. I see nothing wrong with thinking about sex with your spouse or even sometimes daydreaming about it. This is a person you love and commited to for a lifetime. Yet this still should not be the be all and end all of your marital love.

Watch your thoughts, for they become your words. Watch your words, for they become your actions. Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits, for they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

I hope I made less, I kinda rambled… If I have went astray in any of my thoughts… I am willing to be corrected should I anywhere be out of line with the Church.
 
I saw the previous post about “Theology of the Body” that is a good reccommendation. Also I would recommend:

“If you really loved me” from Catholic Answers, written by Jason Evert.
 
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lifeisbeautiful:
Hey, I didn’t write the Catechism, 🙂 I just pointed out that if one seeks it because of the sexual pleasures it brings, it is morally disordered (according to what the Catechism says). BTW, following your logic, why would activities known to be only acceptable as foreplay be wrong if done without the marital act following them, if lovemaking was an ongoing process (day and night, no switches on and off)? I am not being sarcastic, just honestly trying to understand what you are presenting. In foreplay, one can be interested in pleasing the other, so it would not be merely self seeking, and it would make both feel good, yet we know the Church teaches us that if we seek this pleasure apart from unitive and procreative, it is morally disordered. BTW, I know sex is holy, it is not a dirty thing, and I know about the Song of Solomon, etc.

Sex is a wonderful thing, a gift from Heaven, but that does not mean you can sit around thinking about it because of the sexual pleasure thinking about it brings.

Like Ying Yang mom said, the thought came to mind, ok, but one doesn’t sit around fantasizing about it.
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From the Catechism:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Just how does thinking about sex with your spouse constitue a "disordered desire - or “indordinate enjoyment” of sexual pleasure?
And how can you call sexual pleasure between loving spouses (or thinking about the pleasure you share together) - “sought for itself” or “isolated from it’s procreative or unitive purpose?”

I think there is a distortion here of the meaning of “lust.”
 
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LovedOne:
From the Catechism:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Just how does thinking about sex with your spouse constitue a "disordered desire - or “indordinate enjoyment” of sexual pleasure?
And how can you call sexual pleasure between loving spouses (or thinking about the pleasure you share together) - “sought for itself” or “isolated from it’s procreative or unitive purpose?”

I think there is a distortion here of the meaning of “lust.”
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Boy, someone’s missing the mark.
We aren’t saying thinking of your spouse is disordered desire.
We aren’t saying we can’t enjoy our intimate time with our spouse.
And when ‘loving spouses’ are ‘loving each other’ of course, that is in the ‘right order’ and it sure as well should be quite pleasurable -passionate even.

Why do you keep implying we are saying otherwise?
 
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LovedOne:
From the Catechism:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Just how does thinking about sex with your spouse constitue a "disordered desire - or “indordinate enjoyment” of sexual pleasure?
And how can you call sexual pleasure between loving spouses (or thinking about the pleasure you share together) - “sought for itself” or “isolated from it’s procreative or unitive purpose?”

I think there is a distortion here of the meaning of “lust.”
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Do you agree with the idea that there is such thing as chastity within marriage, (and it doesn’t only mean not cheating on your spouse)?

BTW, I never called sexual pleasure between spouses in general disordered, that would be crazy, here is what the Catechism says:
The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation. 146

I was just pointing out that it mentions that sexual pleasure isolated from unitive and procreative functions is disordered.

Ok, are you saying sexual pleasure between loving spouses can never be disordered? Not being sarcastic, still trying to understand what you are saying.
 
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lifeisbeautiful:
Do you agree with the idea that there is such thing as chastity within marriage, (and it doesn’t only mean not cheating on your spouse)?

BTW, I never called sexual pleasure between spouses in general disordered, that would be crazy, here is what the Catechism says:
The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation. 146

I was just pointing out that it mentions that sexual pleasure isolated from unitive and procreative functions is disordered.

Ok, are you saying sexual pleasure between loving spouses can never be disordered? Not being sarcastic, still trying to understand what you are saying.
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Of course there is chastity in marriage and there can be disordered sexual pleasure (lust) as well. IF the criteria for lust and disordered sexual pleasure is met: namely that the goal is self-seeking only whether thinking of your spouse as a mere object or means to and end (pleasure) or only what you can get from it. Not all feelings of sexual pleasure in advance of the marital act qualify as either lust or disordered.

What I am saying is that if I for instance daydream in the morning let’s say, about the sex we had the night before and how loved etc. it made me feel - or if I daydream about what we plan for tonight - to me that IS part of being “unitive”!! It is NOT lust nor disordered. It is one of the joys of being married.
I mean, there takes a certain amount of *thinking * about your marital relations with your spouse (unique to each and every couple) in order to then maybe discuss how it might be better and more pleasing to the other.

Maybe what some are thinking here is that “thinking of sex” purposely means bringing your thoughts to the point of needing release? That is *not * at all what I mean here. Perhaps it has been a miscommunication? 😦
 
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LovedOne:
Of course there is chastity in marriage and there can be disordered sexual pleasure (lust) as well. IF the criteria for lust and disordered sexual pleasure is met: namely that the goal is self-seeking only whether thinking of your spouse as a mere object or means to and end (pleasure) or only what you can get from it. Not all feelings of sexual pleasure in advance of the marital act qualify as either lust or disordered.

What I am saying is that if I for instance daydream in the morning let’s say, about the sex we had the night before and how loved etc. it made me feel - or if I daydream about what we plan for tonight - to me that IS part of being “unitive”!!
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Correct. It is still part of the marital embrace from the previous evening.
Maybe what some are thinking here is that “thinking of sex” purposely means bringing your thoughts to the point of needing release? That is *not *at all what I mean here. Perhaps it has been a miscommunication? 😦
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BINGO!

Mystery solved. We are on the same page now. 😃
 
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YinYangMom:
Correct. It is still part of the marital embrace from the previous evening.

BINGO!

Mystery solved. We are on the same page now. 😃
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Oh good! 👍
 
“sow a thought, reap an act; sow an act, reap a habit; sow a habit reap a character; sow a character, reap a destiny”
 
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LovedOne:
As with anything, prudence is required in marriage too lest you DO fall into “lust” - which is ONLY self-seeking.
But you can look forward to lovemaking with your spouse and think about it because it makes BOTH of you feel good - not only because it will make the other feel good. That would be scrupulous and denying the “obvious.” 😦
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well yeah but others like to make it all black and white, gratification is always selfish, it must be entirely selfless, so no thoughts at all. This is silly, one gets ‘gratified’ from the thought of pleasing your husband/wife. So is it selfish to have thoughts like that? I mean isn’t your own need to make the other feel good, still a desire you have, when it comes down to it?
 
Hey all,

Here’s my problem and I wonder if you can help me.

When do impure thoughts become grave matter? Are such thoughts by nature gravely immoral? Also, how long does entertaining them constitute “full consent” of the will?

These questions have been tremendously difficult for me to answer.

The result has been that I err on the side of caution. So, what happens is that for every episode I have of entertaining impure thoughts, I consider it mortal and refrain from Communion.

I confess at least once a month and get back to Communion again. But, then the cycle repeats itself. At times, I’ve gone without Commuion 3-4 weeks in a row. It seems ridiculous. Any night of the week, before I fall asleep, the sexual thoughts come.

It seems ridiculous that I’m sinning mortally every night of the week b/c I’ve entertained a few of them before managing to reject those thoughts or fall asleep.

Am I overstating the moral gravity of entertaining impure thoughts for short time periods?
 
I had a difficult time understanding the difference between venial and mortal sin. My difficulty centered on the fact that not even the tiniest of sins could be committed without first breaking the Greatest commandment of God. If only for the tiniest of moments I would have to turn my back totally on the great love God has for us.
God chose to use the analogy of a cut to express the difference. He showed that not all cuts represent near and emminent fatal danger to the body. For example we can quickly recognize the difference in the potential seriousness of a machette cut versus a paper cut. But, all cuts do represent an opening, in the body, through which more serious infection may enter the body if not attended to promptly and cared for properly. So therefore even venial sin may represent a near or fatal danger to the body if not attended to. He also showed how a minor cut by itself is not necessarily fatal, but many, many, minor cuts can be just as fatal as one large injury. The Chinese torture of death by a thousand cuts was brought to mind.
This may not answer your question as I doubt if any one can speak specifically to your situation except for God through the priest in confession.
I am curious about the limitation to once per month confession. Is this a self imposed limitation or something that is ‘beyond your control’ to partake of on an as needed basis?
 
Actually, I try to go to confession every 2 weeks. To go on an as needed basis would just be too chaotic for me schedule wise.

I understand your example that venial sin leads to mortal sin and, thus, is also “serious”.

I guess I’m wondering how that applies to impure thoughts.

Honestly, I’m just wondering how other people would handle my predicament.

Also, I’m wondering what the Church’s teaching is exactly on “no parvity of matter” as it relates to sexual immorality in the realm of sexual thoughts.
 
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cynic:
well yeah but others like to make it all black and white, gratification is always selfish, it must be entirely selfless, so no thoughts at all. This is silly, one gets ‘gratified’ from the thought of pleasing your husband/wife. So is it selfish to have thoughts like that? I mean isn’t your own need to make the other feel good, still a desire you have, when it comes down to it?
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Exactly! You could continue down this line of thinking and pretty soon everything is “self-seeking.”
That is why I mentioned the danger in some poster’s attitudes of falling into scrupulosity. Which can be argued is ITSELF a kind of selfishly motivated problem. Because it is based on fear. (“love casts out all fear…”)
 
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cynic:
well yeah but others like to make it all black and white, gratification is always selfish, it must be entirely selfless, so no thoughts at all. This is silly, one gets ‘gratified’ from the thought of pleasing your husband/wife. So is it selfish to have thoughts like that? I mean isn’t your own need to make the other feel good, still a desire you have, when it comes down to it?
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That’s the ‘others’ problem.
Just keep in mind whenever you come across people like that, that they are not representing Catholic Church teaching.
Perhaps even use it as an opportunity to suggest they check the CCC again.
 
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pseudoanselm:
Hey all,

Here’s my problem and I wonder if you can help me.

When do impure thoughts become grave matter? Are such thoughts by nature gravely immoral? Also, how long does entertaining them constitute “full consent” of the will?

These questions have been tremendously difficult for me to answer.

The result has been that I err on the side of caution. So, what happens is that for every episode I have of entertaining impure thoughts, I consider it mortal and refrain from Communion.

I confess at least once a month and get back to Communion again. But, then the cycle repeats itself. At times, I’ve gone without Commuion 3-4 weeks in a row. It seems ridiculous. Any night of the week, before I fall asleep, the sexual thoughts come.

It seems ridiculous that I’m sinning mortally every night of the week b/c I’ve entertained a few of them before managing to reject those thoughts or fall asleep.

Am I overstating the moral gravity of entertaining impure thoughts for short time periods?
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Have you spoken with the Priest during confession about this? Since you’re visiting him regularly, why not take the time to pose these precise questions to him to have him help you with your examination of conscience? It may very well be that you’re overstating your thoughts and I’m sure his guidance can help you further.
 
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pseudoanselm:
Actually, I try to go to confession every 2 weeks. To go on an as needed basis would just be too chaotic for me schedule wise.

I understand your example that venial sin leads to mortal sin and, thus, is also “serious”.

I guess I’m wondering how that applies to impure thoughts.

Honestly, I’m just wondering how other people would handle my predicament.

Also, I’m wondering what the Church’s teaching is exactly on “no parvity of matter” as it relates to sexual immorality in the realm of sexual thoughts.
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Perhaps it may help to stop focusing so much on yourself. We can drive ourselves crazy if we keep ourselves under the microscope like that.

The time you are spending wrestling with the thoughts and then the ramifications for those thoughts would be better spent serving others. Go to a church gathering, lecture, adoration, prayer service - there’s almost something every night - including bingo. Volunteer to teach Religious Ed (that’ll keep you busy), or serve on a parish council/committee (they have monthly meetings with things to do in between). Go through your closet and start pulling clothes and blankets out to give to charity over the weekend. Make a meal to take to the rectory for the priests. Go to the grocery store and buy some groceries for the food pantry. If it’s 10 at night, say a rosary and go to bed, let your mind rest.

When you have an illicit thought, instead of fretting over it, let it pass through your mind, then get up and go do something with someone else in mind. Eventually you’ll develop a routine of helping others and the thoughts will stop coming as frequently. Right now it seems like you’re just waiting for them to happen so you can catch yourself sinning and then beat yourself up over it. Well if we just sit around to catch us doing something offensive to God it’ll happen frequently. But if we are constantly serving others it’s harder to offend God. We’re too busy being Jesus on earth to others.
 
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