Why is this happening?

[FAB]

Agreed, except for that old Reagan line: “Trust, but verify.”

Western christianity today has at least a decades old record of pluralism and tolerance of muslims living in nations and cultures that were historically christian. Is it not reasonable to expect a bit of reciprocity at some point? WHEN? When can I as a christian be able to expect to be allowed to preach the gospel of Christ on a street corner in Saudi Arabia without being arrested at best or simply gunned down at worst?

We HAVE extended the hand, but true progress requires effort by both parties.

It is not entirely unreasonable for Islamophobes to rail against the dual standards expected of western cultures versus Islamic cultures.

It might take another decade or 100 years, it doesn’t change our mission. As long as we worry about things like double standard there will never be progress made. From waht I have seen in the meetings that the Vatican has already conduted, there are enough moderate leaders in the Islamic faith who apparently see the same things.

Peace, FAB

 

[Sister_Amy]

Unless there was an Islamic prayer or worship service going on, or some sort of celebratory party or something, there is little wrong with interfaith dialogue, even if it does happen in a chapel.

Are we supposed to pretend that other faiths don’t exist? That we don’t need to discuss our differences? Are we just supposed to stick our heads in the sand and not say a word to Muslims? Unless it’s derogatory, of course, in which case apparently we can fire at will.

If we were in an auditorium and you stood up to say this, I would give you a standing ovation! Very well said!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Yes, all the time.

My son was born with a condition called craniosynostosis. He needed surgery to fix it.

Before his birth my wife and I were separated.

His birth changed everything for both of us, we decided that he was most important.

I dont think my wife would be with me if she believed she was going to hell for it. Yes, she is married to a non-muslim, but there are other facets to her relationship with God, so its sort of like a see saw of good and sin for her.

Besides we are bringing my son up as a muslim, which I am fine with.

Technically you were a Muslim when she married you though, right?

 

[LilyM]

Agreed, except for that old Reagan line: “Trust, but verify.”

Western christianity today has at least a decades old record of pluralism and tolerance of muslims living in nations and cultures that were historically christian. Is it not reasonable to expect a bit of reciprocity at some point? WHEN? When can I as a christian be able to expect to be allowed to preach the gospel of Christ on a street corner in Saudi Arabia without being arrested at best or simply gunned down at worst?

We HAVE extended the hand, but true progress requires effort by both parties.

It is not entirely unreasonable for Islamophobes to rail against the dual standards expected of western cultures versus Islamic cultures.

What is the alternative to being tolerant and pluralistic? To become precisely that what we most dislike in (some) Muslims.

 

[algebra]

Technically you were a Muslim when she married you though, right?

yes

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Unless there was an Islamic prayer or worship service going on, or some sort of celebratory party or something, there is little wrong with interfaith dialogue, even if it does happen in a chapel.

Are we supposed to pretend that other faiths don’t exist? That we don’t need to discuss our differences? Are we just supposed to stick our heads in the sand and not say a word to Muslims? Unless it’s derogatory, of course, in which case apparently we can fire at will.

All that’s wrong is the use of a Christian religious site for the religious rites of a non-Christian or anti-Christian religion. And Islam holds certain beliefs that collide with Christian belief. That is not “islamophobia”, or “hate speech”, or anything like that, but a recognition of certain facts. It would be equally objectionable for Buddhists (who seem to be a pretty benign bunch) to use a Christian (in this instance, Catholic), religious site for their religious activity. None of this is the same as saying dialogue is a bad thing, or that others don’t matter.​

 

[LilyM]

All that’s wrong is the use of a Christian religious site for the religious rites of a non-Christian or anti-Christian religion. And Islam holds certain beliefs that collide with Christian belief. That is not “islamophobia”, or “hate speech”, or anything like that, but a recognition of certain facts. It would be equally objectionable for Buddhists (who seem to be a pretty benign bunch) to use a Christian (in this instance, Catholic), religious site for their religious activity. None of this is the same as saying dialogue is a bad thing, or that others don’t matter.​

Hang on - I don’t think it’s correct to call an interfaith dialogue a ‘religious rite’ or ‘religious activity’ - do you know for a fact that the Muslims were actually praying or conducting a religious service in the chapel? I see no indication that they were, and if they were just talking about their faith, no problem.

Many priests will mention certain beliefs of Islam in theology class for purposes of discussion, comparison and contrast. And would certainly not be doing wrong to discuss the same from the pulpit on a Sunday either, for purposes of educating their congregations.

Secondly - an interfaith dialogue cannot by definition be an ISLAMIC activity. Interfaith means there is more than one faith involved. I’m presuming Catholics were in attendance and having their say too (hence ‘dialogue’ and not ‘monologue’) - so it’s just as correct to call it a Catholic activity as an Islamic one.

 

[R_not]

Tthe Pope should stay out of anything other than religion. He can have an opinion, but he needs to consider that in this and as with all things he is sending mixed messages about islam. In one side he says the muslims are not serious about dialogue and on the other he kisses a koran (gag).

I just wrote the Pope an email concerning this too. (benedictxvi@vatican.va) I always send emails when I know something is either blatantly not right, or to thank someone, etc.

Anyway, this is wrong because it caters to one religion. And when a business doesn’t understand sharia (the concept of islamic superiority while subjugating others and ensuring they have no rights) this is dangerous. It is ‘creeping sharia’.

Right now, Brigette Gabriel’s group - Act for America is not only dealing with some mosques and the hatred they are teaching, and the blatant fairy tales (lies) about islam and mohammed in our kid’s history books, and the MSA in our colleges - her group is also taking on the likes of a bank in Minnesota that has allowed sharia financing.

I think we should all let these institutions we will not bank with them if they allow this blatant catering to those of one religion. And believe me - they don’t just sit back and take it they fight back because it involves MONEY!

Act for America News pageactforamerica.org/index.php/learn/recent-news

do your own search for sharia banking in that site. there are several articles.

Here is an article on the Minnesota bank and sharia financing. I get email updates on this progress. She is taking them on full force. And it isn’t only this one bank - AIG - that organization that got billions from us is catering to muslims too.

They come here and for years everything is ok. Then with this stealth jihad of theirs speeding up since 9/11 all of a sudden they can’t bank with the rules that everyone else has. This is just a step up in their jihad against us. They know they can’t win militarily in the beginning so it is a ‘creeping sharia’, or ‘stealth jihad’ that they are now in.

And this is a type of segregation - the separation of one group from another. Eventually, it will be the elevation of their group over us. What they are doing is establishing dhimmitude. And it is all under the disguise of either modesty (when they segregate females away from their males), and now due to some ‘religious’ thing. It is all bull - if they come here there is a law against this sort of thing and they are trying to bypass this law.

I have given books and links to this sort of thing they are doing and take that with their practice of taqiyya to figure out that this is a big problem I will list the books again:
‘A Never Ending War’,
‘Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs’ and
‘They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It’
The Third Jihad - 30 minute version
Brigette Gabriel’s talk at the Thomas More Law Center

 

[planten]

To judge by his public acts, I think he’s as hopeless on this issue as his predecessor , the man who brought us the Assisi Abomination Why in ] did Ratzinger not stand up to him ? Talk about human respect !!!​

Inter-religious dalogue = fine & needed

Using religious buildings for acts of non-Christian worship = unforgivable

A Catholic as Abp of Westmister would be nice. If only. A man with this Pope’s virtues, & none of his failings; or someone similar. Not conservative, not liberal, just a Christian who is also Catholic; someone who can avoid using twenty words when one is enough.

BTW - I’m neither devout nor traditional or even particularly Christian; just fed up with the trash that Rome allows, encourages, patronises, supports, & permits. Whenever I think of this bilge, it makes my blood boil - Catholicism is bad for one’s blood pressure.

**Okay, Islam teaches “There is no compulsion in (any) religion.” That is a golden rule for the christians a nd Muslims to adopt every where.

I will remind the christians here that in the life time of our prophet Muhammad, delegation of christians came to Madinah from Najraan to discuss religious matters. It was a big delegation.

Our prophet put them up in the only big mosque in Madinah. Then the christians needed to pray and could have been told to go out of mosque to ring their bells and make prayer outside the mosque.

But the prophet told them that they could live and pray inside the mosque as they liked. How was that?

Another one. When Jarusalem was liberated and the 2nd Caliph (Umar) went there to make peace agreement, he was welcomed by the priests of Jarusalem. I am sure those priests were more capable than the Catholic posters here. Those priests took Hazrat Umar around a tour of the big beautiful cathederal. During the tour of the Cathedral, it was time for the Muslims afternoon prayer (Asr?). Umar said he had to go outside to offer his prayers. The priests said there was no harm. It was a house for prayers and Umar could pray inside the Cathedral. (Just note the permission of the preists).

Umar said that he would not pray inside the Cathedral because if he did so, the later time Muslims may capture (snatch) the Cathedral as a place for Muslim prayers. So he went outside and prayed outside.

The priests had allowed Umar and his team to pray inside the Cathedral. It could be a good lesson for the Catholics of today.**

 

[planten]

It’s not necessary to wear a black overcoat on top of one’s outfit–she’s right about that.

It is necessary to cover the entire body in loose non-transparent clothing, however, except the face and hands. So a long-sleeved blouse and skirt is not sufficient.

Sis Amy, that is a perfect reply to algebra who has married a Muslim woman. But this seems off topic… Thanks anyhow.

 

[planten]

I’ve got to go now, I’m got some stopping people from talking to muslims and keeping muslims out of chapels to do today.

chrisse, that is unusual. You people invite Muslims to chrismas celebrations. What has gone wrong with you? That you want to stop your Catholics about talking with Muslims? Then how will you preach your bible? How will you invite Muslims to your homes for x-mas? Your pope is kissing the Quran. He is your leader, is he not? Or do you have some new splinter sect in the Roman catholics?

 

[planten]

Too many issues here.

But I do wonder why the loathing about a positive statement about Islamic finance systems? Taking off the cultural bias glasses (the ones that state that any and all Islamic cultural values must always be evil and generally inferior to Western ones), it seems to me that the Islamic ideas about finance are indeed flawed, but perhaps not as much so as our current Western ideas. I fear we westerners have embraced usury without thinking about it enough. The doctrine is worth dusting off and having a second look to see how it should be applied in an inflationary world.

And by the way, finding positive elements hardly means any sort of intent to convert. Muslim tradition is very much in line with our own on a lot of individual moral issues. Best do as St. Paul did, use/adopt what is positive and reject the error and falsehood.

**manualman, you have taken a half hearted approach to the muslims stand on usuary (Interest). While perhaps you have no guidance on such important matters in the bibleNT, please know that Islam is very strict against the Interest. It is haraam (illegal). Quran has not just said any unpleasant word against Usuary, it has condemned it severely.

Now if your head of state (Pope) has taken a step forward in appreciation of the Islamic system, it would be better for you to follow and not reduce the effect of the Pope’s advice.**

 

[sedonaman]

“The chapel at Newman University College, Birmingham, was properly prepared for this event which consisted of two talks and a discussion of an interfaith nature.”

If this story is true, removal of the Host was no doubt part of the “proper preparation”.

 

[Sister_Amy]

yes

So you married her (and she married you) according to the Qur’an and Sunnah. Meaning that your marriage is based on Islam.

Right?

 

[Sister_Amy]

All that’s wrong is the use of a Christian religious site for the religious rites of a non-Christian or anti-Christian religion. And Islam holds certain beliefs that collide with Christian belief. That is not “islamophobia”, or “hate speech”, or anything like that, but a recognition of certain facts. It would be equally objectionable for Buddhists (who seem to be a pretty benign bunch) to use a Christian (in this instance, Catholic), religious site for their religious activity. None of this is the same as saying dialogue is a bad thing, or that others don’t matter.​

Dialogue is not a religious rite.

If Catholics don’t want Muslims worshiping in a chapel, that’s fine. I mean personally, I wouldn’t want to pray in a place that had pictures and statues all around like that in the first place. But this isn’t about worshiping is it… it’s just about dialogue… yes?

So what’s the problem?

 

[tomarin]

I mean personally, I wouldn’t want to pray in a place that had pictures and statues all around like that in the first place.

Touche.

 

[LilyM]

If this story is true, removal of the Host was no doubt part of the “proper preparation”.

Why? Did Our Lord not talk to pagan Romans (the centurion) and people of other faiths (the Samaritans)?

And as Amy has indicated - the Catholic artworks with which most of our churches and chapels are adorned aren’t exactly conducive to worship for Muslims anyway - from what I’ve seen of mosques they aren’t adorned with images of people, or indeed any living thing, so our statues and paintings and stained glass would be complete anathema.

 

[algebra]

So you married her (and she married you) according to the Qur’an and Sunnah. Meaning that your marriage is based on Islam.

Right?

We had a nikah. So the contract was based on islam.

 

[chrisse]

chrisse, that is unusual. You people invite Muslims to chrismas celebrations. What has gone wrong with you? That you want to stop your Catholics about talking with Muslims? Then how will you preach your bible? How will you invite Muslims to your homes for x-mas? Your pope is kissing the Quran. He is your leader, is he not? Or do you have some new splinter sect in the Roman catholics?

LOL, planten, I was replying to Sister Amy who claimed that was what I did. It was a joke

But, because I cannot lie and as I said that was what I was going to do, I rushed out and would you believe it, I couldn’t find one muslim in a chapel to kick out or one muslim talking to a non-muslim to stop?

I think Sister Amy warned them.

 

[sedonaman]

Why? Did Our Lord not talk to pagan Romans (the centurion) and people of other faiths (the Samaritans)?

What did Jesus say when he was asked to deny truth?

And as Amy has indicated - the Catholic artworks with which most of our churches and chapels are adorned aren’t exactly conducive to worship for Muslims anyway - from what I’ve seen of mosques they aren’t adorned with images of people, or indeed any living thing, so our statues and paintings and stained glass would be complete anathema.

So the Church would have to cover them up or remove them too; after all, we can’t hurt Muslim sensibilities at any cost.