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1cthlctrth
Guest
Please identify what you view as the President’s most damaging acts or words of racism. Thanks.
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JSRG
Guest
“Corporations being considered people” is a misunderstanding of Citizens United.Shakuhachi:
Does anyone know where Amy leans on this issue? Talk about activism! As far as I’ve read, our founding fathers never envisioned corporations being considered people. It seems conservatives were quite fond of this case of judicial activism!
Whether or not corporations are people is irrelevant to the fact that the First Amendment applies to corporations. A simple reading of it makes this clear; it says congress shall not curtail freedom of speech. Nowhere does it say this applies only to “people” or “individuals”. The prohibition applies to everything. If it didn’t, then logically any newspaper or website made by a corporation could be censored to the government’s content. I do not believe even the dissent made the claim that “corporaitons aren’t people and thus the First Amendment doesn’t apply” though I don’t plan to reread through all 90 pages of the dissent to be sure. Its arguments against the majority opinion were elsewhere.
Whatever legitimate criticisms one may make of Citizens United, “corporations aren’t people” isn’t one of them. (although it should be noted that the decision also lifted the restrictions that were on other groups like unions as well–it wasn’t just corporations that benefitted)
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PrayForMe
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I don’t think one can fairly accuse Trump of intentionally promoting racism. But he does absolutely nothing to help mend the divide that exists in this country. Actually, it’s worse than merely “not helping it”. He fuels it by refusing to strongly condemn right-wing white supremacists just because they support and vote for him.
See, the problem with Trump is he holds a binary view of the world. Namely, everyone is for or against him. Those for him, regardless of ideology or background, are the “smart” or “good” ones. Those against him? He uses adjectives like “loser”, “crazy”, “dumb”, etc. to describe them. Again, their own ideology or stature is irrelevant to Trump. Because as someone who is very power-hungry, all Trump really cares about is getting adulation and unwavering loyalty from people. If you don’t support him or his views from top to bottom, get ready to feel his fiery wrath. It’s exactly why he wastes time criticizing reputable health experts like Dr Fauci, because he has the audacity to, gasp, paint a picture that doesn’t mesh with Trump’s rosy depiction of the pandemic. He doesn’t go along with Trump’s message, choosing science and facts over political message and distortion of reality. Ergo, no matter how good a doctor he is, he isn’t getting on Trump’s good side by refusing to obey his every wish and whim.
What’s sad is many Trump supporters blindly follow and believe everything he says and does. Trump says Dr Fauci is a “disaster”? Ignore everything the man says, his many years of experience aside. Trump says there is no major problem with racism in America? The president said it, so it must be so!
This illustrates the real danger in voting for either candidate. Biden seems like a nice man, but his ideology is terrible. And say what you want, but no, you shouldn’t vote for someone whose very policies are at odds with Catholic teaching.
Ideologically speaking, might Trump be the “lesser of two evils”? Technically, yes, but his pride and obsession with being right about everything and his determination to undermine and smear anyone who doesn’t see everything his way would make even the hardest of hearts cringe. He acts less like a president and more like some monarch insistent on total loyalty to him. Except America is a democracy, not a monarchy (even though the latter has a more Catholic history and foundation than the former, but that’s a discussion for another thread).
As a Catholic, I find it impossible to support either candidate. One claims to be Catholic while nonetheless obstinately flaunting positions at odds with Church teachings, and the other is so self-absorbed and aloof it’s downright frightening. His tendencies border on cultish, and that’s absolutely not what our country needs.
See, the problem with Trump is he holds a binary view of the world. Namely, everyone is for or against him. Those for him, regardless of ideology or background, are the “smart” or “good” ones. Those against him? He uses adjectives like “loser”, “crazy”, “dumb”, etc. to describe them. Again, their own ideology or stature is irrelevant to Trump. Because as someone who is very power-hungry, all Trump really cares about is getting adulation and unwavering loyalty from people. If you don’t support him or his views from top to bottom, get ready to feel his fiery wrath. It’s exactly why he wastes time criticizing reputable health experts like Dr Fauci, because he has the audacity to, gasp, paint a picture that doesn’t mesh with Trump’s rosy depiction of the pandemic. He doesn’t go along with Trump’s message, choosing science and facts over political message and distortion of reality. Ergo, no matter how good a doctor he is, he isn’t getting on Trump’s good side by refusing to obey his every wish and whim.
What’s sad is many Trump supporters blindly follow and believe everything he says and does. Trump says Dr Fauci is a “disaster”? Ignore everything the man says, his many years of experience aside. Trump says there is no major problem with racism in America? The president said it, so it must be so!
This illustrates the real danger in voting for either candidate. Biden seems like a nice man, but his ideology is terrible. And say what you want, but no, you shouldn’t vote for someone whose very policies are at odds with Catholic teaching.
Ideologically speaking, might Trump be the “lesser of two evils”? Technically, yes, but his pride and obsession with being right about everything and his determination to undermine and smear anyone who doesn’t see everything his way would make even the hardest of hearts cringe. He acts less like a president and more like some monarch insistent on total loyalty to him. Except America is a democracy, not a monarchy (even though the latter has a more Catholic history and foundation than the former, but that’s a discussion for another thread).
As a Catholic, I find it impossible to support either candidate. One claims to be Catholic while nonetheless obstinately flaunting positions at odds with Church teachings, and the other is so self-absorbed and aloof it’s downright frightening. His tendencies border on cultish, and that’s absolutely not what our country needs.
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pnewton
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I said, “A voter is not held responsible, for example, of the racism promoted by an elected president unless his intent was to promote that racism.”
Note the use of the indefinite article, and the phrase “for example.” At this stage in the election, I prefer not to present examples for the old back and forth stuff, but let everyone vote based on their own conscience.
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1cthlctrth
Guest
I appreciate your thought-out reply. However:
Two days after violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 — after first equating violence from white supremacists with those protesting — Trump said, “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups.”
A month later, the president signed a congressional resolution condemning white supremacy.
In 2019, following shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, Trump said, “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy. ”
“These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America. Hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart, and devours the soul,” Trump added.
Then perhaps your use of the word “President” was ill-advised.
It’s tragic that the leftist media has so much power to cover up facts, and to make up their own stories based on “unnamed sources.” Otherwise good and intelligent Americans who are only exposed to the left will form faulty opinions based on the media’s dishonest representation.
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BlessedYoungCatholic
Guest
If you look at Pope Benedict Writing he states that the right to life pretends every right we have. That’s enough authority for me 
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PrayForMe
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I concede this point to you. It is true that the liberal, biased media does not tell the full story in many instances.
Having said that, Trump still did not do a good job addressing the incident. Pinning blame on “both sides” is not the proper response in a situation like that.
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pnewton
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I do not listen to the leftist media. I also ignore the type of stuff you posted above. I find it spiritual dangerous. I never thought that this whole white supremacy thing was real. In any case, this argument against Trump was contrary to reason. So what if he did not verbalize the best possible response to an incident when asked about it. That is not a biggie.
I am sorry if the use of the word “president” hit too close to home. I was actually thinking of Nixon, as I have of late, appreciating what an insightful decision it was to pardon him.
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pnewton
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On a side note, the Catechism gives us a great filter for separating political wheat from chaff.
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
This is St. JP’s Razor. Use it to cut off all the stuff that is likely superfluous and stick to important and knowable issues.
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
This is St. JP’s Razor. Use it to cut off all the stuff that is likely superfluous and stick to important and knowable issues.
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1cthlctrth
Guest
The pitiful thing is that some potential voters have been brainwashed by the leftist media into thinking that their dislike for President Trump’s “tone” should overrule voting to protect their kids’ future.
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pnewton
Guest
Yeah! I am done. Got my voting over with in about five minutes between walking in and walking out.
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christofirst
Guest
I’m done voting too. I mailed my ballot in two weeks ago and got confirmation that it was recieved. I’ll be glad when this election’s over and settled, but for now I’m satisfied that I’ve done my part.
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HarryStotle
Guest
It doesn’t appear that you have read his response to determine if it was “proper.” That is apparent from your summary that he was blaming “both sides.” He identified at least four distinct groups and claimed the good people populated two of those - the peaceful ones who were protesting Confederate statues and the peaceful ones who were opposed to tearing them down. All of the other groups - the violent ones - he condemned.1cthlctrth:
I concede this point to you. It is true that the liberal, biased media does not tell the full story in many instances.
Having said that, Trump still did not do a good job addressing the incident. Pinning blame on “both sides” is not the proper response in a situation like that.
It isn’t always the fault of the media for not telling the whole story. Sometimes, especially in times like these when the truth is being mauled in the public square, each of us needs to dig a little deeper to find it.
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PrayForMe
Guest
I did read his response. My comment was not directly related to the part of Trump’s quote that he outlined. I was referring to a statement Trump made that he neglected to mention. Trump did say that “there is blame on both sides”.
The point Trump was trying to make (albeit ineffectively) was that the alt-left doesn’t get the same negative publicity, and he’s not wrong. He also isn’t wrong when he says the alt-left has its own problems with violence. The problem with this argument was that it wasn’t relevant to what happened. It was a white supremacist rally to begin with, and it was a self-proclaimed white supremacist who drove his vehicle into a crowd of counter-protestors. Those people weren’t being violent either. Oh, and stating there are “very fine people on both sides” also isn’t going to win you over any support from the public when, again, we’re talking about what was essentially a neo-Nazi rally.
In short, his response was unacceptable. Even members of his own party publicly disagreed with him. Condemning those groups after you make an initial statement like that - not to mention his laughable claim that his statement was “perfect” - is just an attempt to save face after a major mistake that backfired on him. Any other President would have tanked and been unable to recover. But Trump isn’t like other Presidents, the never-ending news cycle about all the controversial things he says and does makes it easy to forget Charlottesville, especially considering his gaffe at that time pales in comparison to his horrendous response to the ongoing pandemic.
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PrayForMe
Guest
I agree. His tone is not his biggest issue though. His recklessness and incompetence is a much bigger problem.
But I agree that our children’s future would be far better under the rule of Republicans rather than Democrats.
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PrayForMe
Guest
Having said the above about Trump, I will say, in reference to the question about voting for Biden: he supports abortion and homosexual marriage. The Church teaches that abortion and living in homosexual unions are both gravely sinful.
Consequently, while I don’t believe the Church has ever explicitly stated that voting for a candidate who supports such acts is mortally sinful, would it be fair to argue that it would be gravely sinful if one was aware of these teachings but voted for a candidate such as Biden anyway? I think such an argument could fairly be made.
Trump undoubtedly has his issues. He’s not an exemplary model for what a President should be. But as a Catholic, I will NEVER vote for someone who supports abortion and gay marriage. And if you ask me, shame on Catholics who enable and support behaviors like that. They should know better.
Consequently, while I don’t believe the Church has ever explicitly stated that voting for a candidate who supports such acts is mortally sinful, would it be fair to argue that it would be gravely sinful if one was aware of these teachings but voted for a candidate such as Biden anyway? I think such an argument could fairly be made.
Trump undoubtedly has his issues. He’s not an exemplary model for what a President should be. But as a Catholic, I will NEVER vote for someone who supports abortion and gay marriage. And if you ask me, shame on Catholics who enable and support behaviors like that. They should know better.
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ImQuiet
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Not much for nuance or compromise I take it?
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PrayForMe
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Not really.
But in all seriousness, am I wrong? Catholics should know what the Church they are a member of teaches and should follow those teachings.
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ImQuiet
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Yes, you are.
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PrayForMe
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Please elaborate. I can’t know why I’m wrong about something if I don’t know how I am wrong.
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