Why Isa (Jesus) is called Isa AS in Islam?

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Normal biological processes is that a sperm comes into contact with an egg. If there is no egg, such as in a state of an old woman…than conception is really a miracle. Nowadays, a woman who has never had sex can give birth. Its called artificial insemination. So really the miracle is not that a woman didnt have sex, its that there is no sperm or egg available…which is the case in both scenarios.

Faith, they did copulate. It must be a miracle (actually, I agree with you that every newborn child is a miracle), but not A VERY STRANGE MIRACLE that even Allah Himself told Jibril to come to a VIRGIN woman and said this in surah 19:19:

YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.

Then you said:

What does a miraculous birth have to do with prophethood? Every single prophet had their miracles…if we were to base divinity on this, we would be worshipping everybody.

If so, please name me other Prophets whose existance came as strange as this. (like born not from a normal husband and wife relationship, being said to be sinless).

Divinity?? The Quran mentions Jesus’ lack of divinity, which he will attest to on the day of judgment

We will start it later. We are talking about the birth and existance first.

the word “messiah” does not mean “savior”, it means “annointed” just as the greek word “cristos” as well as the arabic word “maseeh” mean “annointed”.

This also should wait.

Fox

 

[Faith101]

Faith, they did copulate.

If so, please name me other Prophets whose existance came as strange as this. (like born not from a normal husband and wife relationship, being said to be sinless).

did you read my post about woman who have never had sex having babies? Let me paste it here, highlighting the important parts

Normal biological processes is that a sperm comes into contact with an egg. If there is no egg, such as in a state of an old woman…than conception is really a miracle. Nowadays, a woman who has never had sex can give birth. Its called artificial insemination. So really **the miracle is not that a woman didnt have sex, its that there is no sperm or egg available…which is the case in both scenarios. **

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Normal biological processes is that a sperm comes into contact with an egg. If there is no egg, such as in a state of an old woman…than conception is really a miracle. Nowadays, a woman who has never had sex can give birth. Its called artificial insemination. So really the miracle is not that a woman didnt have sex, its that there is no sperm or egg available…which is the case in both scenarios.

There are some points I need to mention to you:

1. This is more than 2000 years ago. Unless you said that artificial insemination was common then, I don’t think it’s related.
2. This is taken from your own Quran, so we will base ourselves in Quran.
3. I said that every newborn babies are miracles, but do you have any account in Quran mentioning other babies whom:
   a. Jibril came and mentioned about the holiness/sinless nature.
   b. born from a virgin 2000 years ago?
   Here I quote again.

YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

So do you suggest that then Allah asked Jibril to do artificial insemination? This is your Quran, and not Bible and Veda.

And back to my point, please:

If so, please name me other Prophets whose existance came as strange as this. (like born not from a normal husband and wife relationship, being said to be sinless).

If you cannot bring any verses from Quran mentioning other PROPHETS (not son of prophet like the case of Zakarya), then you may bring to us (quote with the verses) and I drop the case that ONLY Adam and Jesus have extraordinary birth/existence in Quran.
If not, I will continue our discussion.

Fox

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Peace to you Brother DeExupery, you want to proove the divinity of Jesus in Quran Despite Quran clearly told you that he was only a prophet

004.171
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

And we believe that all prophets have no sins but may have mistake because they are human
Also Prophet Jesus (PBUH) like some prophets in Quran, it is not mention that they have mistakes,
I have heard that Jesus(PBUH) has killed one boy by mistake, but I am not sure since Its not mentioned in Quran
gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

Peace and may God guide you to the truth.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Brother Guratto,

And we believe that all prophets have no sins but may have mistake because they are human

Mistakes = Flaws = Sins. I mention that in Quran, only Isa was mentioned as Flawless/Holy/Sinless. And no other prophets.
Sorry, for this case, if a Quran said so, then so it is. Even hadiths cannot nullify any verse in Quran, aren’t I correct?

SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

The discussion of Isa’s divinity will come later. Now I only state my case that based on Quran:

1. Isa was the only Prophet who was sinless (unless of course you or others want to claim that Allah’s word through Jibril was not true).
2. Through his extraordinary condition into being (the extraordinary existance), as Prophet he was only comparable to Adam, which of course was extraordinary because He was created by God through HIS Words.
   Do you agree with such claim? If not, please provide refutation based on Quran.

Fox

 

[Cyber_Knight]

gurrato alaien:

I have heard that Jesus(PBUH) has killed one boy by mistake, but I am not sure since Its not mentioned in Quran
gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

**Do you believe what you just heard or Quran? **

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Many prophets have been mentioned in Quran without any Mistake including Prophet Jesus.
So whether they have mistakes or not Quran did not tell us.

Like Sulaiman Solmon, ayyoub, yakoob, Jacob, yousif, Josef…… and others.

And you believe that Adam was a prophet, do you? And his existence is extraordinary without father and mother, so why you wonder from being Jesus coming from his mother only without father, why you believe in divinity of Jesus since you believe in Adam as a prophet.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Brother Guratto,

Many prophets have been mentioned in Quran without any Mistake including Prophet Jesus.

So no other Prophet except Prophet Isa was claimed to be sinless in Quran. Am I correct?

Like Sulaiman Solmon, ayyoub, yakoob, Jacob, yousif, Josef…… and others.

And no one was claimed to be sinless except Isa. So I have made my point.

And you believe that Adam was a prophet, do you? And his existence is extraordinary without father and mother, so why you wonder from being Jesus coming from his mother only without father, why you believe in divinity of Jesus since you believe in Adam as a prophet.

What I believe is not important for now. We are talking about Isa in Quran, not in Bible.
So you agree as well that beside Prophet Isa, only Prophet Adam is comparable? (Quran based)
Come on, I need to make a progress here…

Fox

 

[gurrato_alaien]

DeExupery:

Dear Brother Guratto,

So no other Prophet except Prophet Isa was claimed to be sinless in Quran. Am I correct?

no, many prophets Like Sulaiman Solmon, abraham, ayyoub, yakoob, Jacob, yousif, Josef…… and others including jesus are sinless according to Quran

DeExupery:

What I believe is not important for now. We are talking about Isa in Quran, not in Bible.
So you agree as well that beside Prophet Isa, only Prophet Adam is comparable? (Quran based)
Come on, I need to make a progress here…

Fox

You cliam the divinity of Jesus becasue he came from his mother only without father and in the same time you beleive in Adam as no more than prophet despite he also came as miracle without father and mother, how come?

in other phrase since you beleive in adam as a prophet despite he came without father and mather, you shodn’t beleive in the divinity of Jesus becasue he came from his mother without father.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Brother Guratto,

Let us examine your statements:

no, many prophets Like Sulaiman Solmon, abraham, ayyoub, yakoob, Jacob, yousif, Josef…… and others including jesus are sinless according to Quran

If so, please provide the verses mentioning THEY ARE SINLESS, just like the one for Isa.

You cliam the divinity of Jesus becasue he came from his mother only without father and in the same time you beleive in Adam as no more than prophet despite he also came as miracle without father and mother, how come?

My dear, at the moment, I am not talking about divinity. I ask you whether there are only two Prophets in Quran comparable because of their extraordinary ‘birth’ (or come into existence), namely Prophet Adam and Prophet Isa.

in other phrase since you beleive in adam as a prophet despite he came without father and mather, you shodn’t beleive in the divinity of Jesus becasue he came from his mother without father.

This, I don’t understand. Let me clarify. I never belittle Prophet Adam, Prophet Isa, or other Prophets. see my point above, I only compare the extraordinary ‘birth’ of Prophets and only Adam and Isa are comparable. Others were born naturally.
Which one of my statements you disagree?

Fox

 

[DeExupery]

Dear All,

Since our moslem brothers and sisters don’t seem to bring evidence that there are the third prophet who had extraordinary existence in Quran, so let me move further…by talking about Prophet Adam first.
Adam was the first man created by God, according to Quran. And the first prophet. It is also Adam (together with his wife Eve) who brings the first sin to men by defying God’s law. (they ate Kuldi).
So I state my case here that before they ate the forbidden fruit:

1. Adam and Eve was sinless.
2. Adam and Eve didn’t live as husband and wife, but as companion.
   The second point is my own opinion, based on the fact that before they were sent out of heaven, they didn’t have any child.

To make it simple, I stop it here first, to give our moslem brothers and sisters to comment and involved in this discussion.

Fox

 

[DeExupery]

So, no comment so far? If no comments, may be I will continue.

Prophet Adam was sinless (before eating Kuldi)

Prophet Isa is sinless (on no other claim in Quran he fell into sin until he left this world).

That’s very interesting. What is the relationship between the Prophet Adam and Prophet Isa?

What has God planned for us?

WE WILL WAIT AND SEE. Now I want to ask our brother and sister moslems. What is Allah’s plan of salvation according to you, after reading QURAN?
I believe our scholar brother Rasheed, brother Gurrato, sister Faith, can explain to me, so together we will know about this relationship.

Fox

 

[gurrato_alaien]

DeExupery:

So, no comment so far? If no comments, may be I will continue.

Prophet Adam was sinless (before eating Kuldi)

Prophet Isa is sinless (on no other claim in Quran he fell into sin until he left this world).

That’s very interesting. What is the relationship between the Prophet Adam and Prophet Isa?

Just as God created Adam without a mother or a father, He caused Jesus to be conceived without a father:

“Truly the example of Jesus in relation to God is as the example of Adam. He created him from dust and then said to him, “Be!” and he was.” (Qur’an 3:59)

DeExupery:

What has God planned for us?

WE WILL WAIT AND SEE. Now I want to ask our brother and sister moslems. What is Allah’s plan of salvation according to you, after reading QURAN?
I believe our scholar brother Rasheed, brother Gurrato, sister Faith, can explain to me, so together we will know about this relationship.

Fox

1)To be Muslim Testimony of faith testify that ‘La ilaha illa Allah, Mohammed Rasool-ullah’, [There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah alone, and Mohammed is Allah’s Messenger.]

How beautiful would it be to hear this, Justice, Peace and Freedom coming out of mouth of man

Indeed, this is the most truthful statement ever revealed by Allah to
mankind. It is the core secret to man’s happiness, salvation, pleasure and final victory
2) do the good deeds

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Brother Guratto,

“Truly the example of Jesus in relation to God is as the example of Adam. He created him from dust and then said to him, “Be!” and he was.” (Qur’an 3:59)

Very beautiful. So I don’t need to say anything about the comparison between Adam and Isa. It’s already there!!

GOD’S PLAN

1)To be Muslim Testimony of faith testify that ‘La ilaha illa Allah, Mohammed Rasool-ullah’, [There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah alone, and Mohammed is Allah’s Messenger.]

1. do the good deeds

While they are indeed beautiful, but I believe, the FINAL INTENTION of Allah is for us to BE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM, The way Adam and Eve used to live before falling into Sin.

Do you agree?

Fox

P.S. I will not discuss about how is the description of heaven for now.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

DeExupery:

Dear Brother Guratto,

Very beautiful. So I don’t need to say anything about the comparison between Adam and Isa. It’s already there!!

GOD’S PLAN

While they are indeed beautiful, but I believe, the FINAL INTENTION of Allah is for us to BE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM, The way Adam and Eve used to live before falling into Sin.

Do you agree?

Fox

P.S. I will not discuss about how is the description of heaven for now.

Yes, our original place is the paradise, Just god almighty wants to test us whether will obey him or not, so who believe in Allah alone without partner he will return back to paradise and who will disobey him he will go to Hell

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Guratto,

Yes, our original place is the paradise, Just god almighty wants to test us whether will obey him or not, so who believe in Allah alone without partner he will return back to paradise and who will not obey him he will go to Hell

Well, have many things agreed so far…
So IT’S THE RETURN OF MEN TO PARADISE/HEAVEN
Ok, now let’s move on.
Now we move to the creation theme.
Why God created Adam and Eve in the first place? Was it to be tested to see whether They would pass something? BUT THE PROBLEM IS THEY WERE ALREADY IN HEAVEN.
It’s problematic, isn’t it? What do you think?
I really need your strong islamic background so we can learn together…

Fox

 

[gurrato_alaien]

See here how God almighty warned people to obey Satan

007.027
YUSUFALI: O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.
PICKTHAL: O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.
SHAKIR: O children of Adam! let not the Shaitan cause you to fall into affliction as he expelled your parents from the garden, pulling off from them both their clothing that he might show them their evil inclinations, he surely sees you, he as well as his host, from whence you cannot see them; surely We have made the Shaitans to be the guardians of those who do not believe.

and this is the rest of Adam story as reveald in quran

007.011
YUSUFALI: It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate.
PICKTHAL: And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.
SHAKIR: And certainly We created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam. So they did prostrate except Iblis; he was not of those who prostrated.

007.012
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: “What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.”
PICKTHAL: He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.
SHAKIR: He said: What hindered you so that you did not prostrate when I commanded you? He said: I am better than he: Thou hast created me of fire, while him Thou didst create of dust.

007.013
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: “Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures).”
PICKTHAL: He said: Then go down hence! It is not for thee to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! thou art of those degraded.
SHAKIR: He said: Then get forth from this (state), for it does not befit you to behave proudly therein. Go forth, therefore, surely you are of the abject ones.

007.014
YUSUFALI: He said: “Give me respite till the day they are raised up.”
PICKTHAL: He said: Reprieve me till the day when they are raised (from the dead).
SHAKIR: He said: Respite me until the day when they are raised up.

007.015
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: “Be thou among those who have respite.”
PICKTHAL: He said: Lo! thou art of those reprieved.
SHAKIR: He said: Surely you are of the respited ones.

007.016
YUSUFALI: He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
PICKTHAL: He said: Now, because Thou hast sent me astray, verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Thy Right Path.
SHAKIR: He said: As Thou hast caused me to remain disappointed I will certainly lie in wait for them in Thy straight path.

007.017
YUSUFALI: “Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies).”
PICKTHAL: Then I shall come upon them from before them and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left hands, and Thou wilt not find most of them beholden (unto Thee).
SHAKIR: Then I will certainly come to them from before them and from behind them, and from their right-hand side and from their left-hand side; and Thou shalt not find most of them thankful.
to be cont…

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Cont…
007.018
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.
PICKTHAL: He said: Go forth from hence, degraded, banished. As for such of them as follow thee, surely I will fill hell with all of you.
SHAKIR: He said: Get out of this (state), despised, driven away; whoever of them will follow you, I will certainly fill hell with you all.

007.019
YUSUFALI: “O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression.”
PICKTHAL: And (unto man): O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden and eat from whence ye will, but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And (We said): O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden; so eat from where you desire, but do not go near this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.

007.020
YUSUFALI: Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: “Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever.”
PICKTHAL: Then Satan whispered to them that he might manifest unto them that which was hidden from them of their shame, and he said: Your Lord forbade you from this tree only lest ye should become angels or become of the immortals.
SHAKIR: But the Shaitan made an evil suggestion to them that he might make manifest to them what had been hidden from them of their evil inclinations, and he said: Your Lord has not forbidden you this tree except that you may not both become two angels or that you may (not) become of the immortals.

007.021
YUSUFALI: And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
PICKTHAL: And he swore unto them (saying): Lo! I am a sincere adviser unto you.
SHAKIR: And he swore to them both: Most surely I am a sincere adviser to you.

007.022
YUSUFALI: So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: “Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?”
PICKTHAL: Thus did he lead them on with guile. And when they tasted of the tree their shame was manifest to them and they began to hide (by heaping) on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called them, (saying): Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you: Lo! Satan is an open enemy to you?
SHAKIR: Then he caused them to fall by deceit; so when they tasted of the tree, their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with the leaves of the garden; and their Lord called out to them: Did I not forbid you both from that tree and say to you that the Shaitan is your open enemy?

007.023
YUSUFALI: They said: “Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost.”
PICKTHAL: They said: Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If thou forgive us not and have not mercy on us, surely we are of the lost!
SHAKIR: They said: Our Lord! We have been unjust to ourselves, and if Thou forgive us not, and have (not) mercy on us, we shall certainly be of the losers.
to be cont…

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Here same story in other surah:

002.034
YUSUFALI: And behold, We said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam” and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
SHAKIR: And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
002.035
YUSUFALI: We said: “O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression.”
PICKTHAL: And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And We said: O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish and do not approach this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.
002.036
YUSUFALI: Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: “Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time.”
PICKTHAL: But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.
SHAKIR: But the Shaitan made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of you being the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.
002.037
YUSUFALI: Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.
SHAKIR: Then Adam received (some) words from his Lord, so He turned to him mercifully; surely He is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
002.038
YUSUFALI: We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL: We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
SHAKIR: We said: Go forth from this (state) all; so surely there will come to you a guidance from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.
002.039
YUSUFALI: “But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein.”
PICKTHAL: But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.
SHAKIR: And (as to) those who disbelieve in and reject My communications, they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Guratto,

See here how God almighty warned people to obey Satan

Yes. Problem is they were already in heaven. God created Satan. And Satan seduced Adam and Eve. So do you think God wanted Adam and Eve to fail, directly and directly?
Remember, God is all knowing. So I ask you again. What is the meaning of men’s creation from God, before they fell into sin? Do you have any Islamistic source to know WHAT WAS THE INTENTION OF GOD TO CREATE HUMAN?
Thank you for your many verses. We might need them as we progress.

Fox