Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

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Kathleen:

Very good posts, but don’t hold your breath for a reply. I have been waiting for a long time for answers to my questions. It has also been some time since any muslim has made any
comments. They are either ignoring us or have retreated from the truth. I guess this is
probably the end of this thread. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Javl,

People come here…I just don’t know if the Muslims can follow some of these writings…They must ask Allah for strength to understand to enter into comprehending Catholics’ education and knowledge of our faith.

I shared a prayer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and she saw me another time, and said she now understands how we relate to Christ. Wish the same for the others here.
 
The main reason why Mahometanism denies the crucifixion is simple.

That way, they don’t have to deal with the Resurrection.

A dead man requires only that he be buried.

A man who rises from the dead by His own power is in a position to make non-negotiable demands.
And more recently, they deny the holocaust. I dont take anything about islam seriously. I just worrya bout their radicals. I can care less what the Koran says. I’ve glanced through it a few times, It never really impressed me. Yeah, Mary’s in it, Jesus is in it, yeah, they see him as a prophet, but again, I dont give 2 squirts of gin what islam says, does, preaches, anything. Sorry, but I dont. I dont hate them, I’m just not interested.
 
So Bosnian Muslim, what do you think of these reflections?
do you really believe Jesus was god,and then at the same time he died on the cross? why would God do such a thing? did the enemies win over Gods power when they killed him on the cross? or was the killing something he wanted them to do? if thats the case,then praise the killers of Jesus! and during those days he was dead…was the world without GOD? or was the world with “twonity” since the third was dead?

those are my questions
 
The main reason why Mahometanism denies the crucifixion is simple.
That way, they don’t have to deal with the Resurrection.
A dead man requires only that he be buried.
A man who rises from the dead by His own power is in a position to make non-negotiable demands.
If thats the case then how comes we believe virgin Mary was a virgin and died as a virgin?? its the same thing!!

so no,we dont deny crucifixion because of the things you mention,because that would NEVER be a problem to us.God is almighty and he can do ANYTHING…so it wouldnt be impossible,but its not true since God say its not

but islam mentions many of Jesus miracles,and that doesnt make us believe he is “gods son”
 
How is that in any way the same thing? Obviously, you can believe in the virginity of Mary without dealing with the resurrection. They’re completely unrelated.

You’re bad at this.
 
do you really believe Jesus was god,and then at the same time he died on the cross? why would God do such a thing? did the enemies win over Gods power when they killed him on the cross? or was the killing something he wanted them to do? if thats the case,then praise the killers of Jesus! and during those days he was dead…was the world without GOD? or was the world with “twonity” since the third was dead?

those are my questions
I think you misunderstand both the nature of the Incarnation and Resurrection. When the Incarnation happened, God entered into Creation and took on a human form - at the same time, He did not cease being deity. This is known as the hypostatic union: God became fully man and fully God. “The Word became flesh.” (John 1:14) He was not part-man, part-God (like the demigods of Greek mythology), and He wasn’t simply a man or simply a God (the latter of which was a Gnostic belief) - He was united as fully man, fully God. That is the hypostatic union.

On the cross, Christ did not die as a god, but rather He died as a man and was raised in a spiritually glorified body so that the Resurrection awaited for by the Jews could come about. This is why Christ told Lazarus’s sisters, “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25). Mankind had been tarnished and separated by God after the Fall, and when they passed on they went down into what the Psalmist called the Pit (also known as Sheol in Hebrew). When Christ died on the cross, He went down into the Pit and broke down the gates - you see, He went where men go when they die, but at the same time the Gates of Sheol could not comprehend His deity, and they shattered. All those inside who had awaited their Lord ascended to Paradise with Him. The cross, a symbol of torment and death, became a symbol of resurrection.

Likewise, you ask, “Was the killing something He wanted them to do?” Yes, He wanted them to do it, because it would fulfill the very reason for the Incarnation. If you read the gospels you’ll find many times Christ predicts His oncoming crucifixion - two examples:

“You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man will be delivered up to be crucified.” [Matthew 26:2; ESV]

…for he was teaching his disciples, saying to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise.” [Mark 9:31; ESV]

And likewise Christ’s comment when the men come to arrest Him:

“Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs? When I was with you day after day in the temple, you did not lay hands on me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.” [Luke 22:52-53; ESV]

Christ went to the cross and did so willingly, knowing that there would be torment - but most of all, knowing there would be life for all who believe. That is why the crucifixion happened.
 
How is that in any way the same thing? Obviously, you can believe in the virginity of Mary without dealing with the resurrection. They’re completely unrelated.

You’re bad at this.
what he was trying to say is(as i understood it) is that by accepting the resurrection you cant deny that Jesus is more then a man,which muslims claim

the same is with the birth from a virgin,not even the prophet Mohammed himself was born by such a miracle…and still it is not a problem for us to believe Jesus was born by a virgin,he could speak as a baby too, and at the same time he was just a man.Because we know God is almighty and can do anything,so even resurrection woud be fine with us if God didnt say in the Koran its wrong
 
I think you misunderstand both the nature of the Incarnation and Resurrection. When the Incarnation happened, God entered into Creation and took on a human form - at the same time, He did not cease being deity. This is known as the hypostatic union: God became fully man and fully God. “The Word became flesh.” (John 1:14) He was not part-man, part-God (like the demigods of Greek mythology), and He wasn’t simply a man or simply a God (the latter of which was a Gnostic belief) - He was united as fully man, fully God. That is the hypostatic union.

On the cross, Christ did not die as a god, but rather He died as a man and was raised in a spiritually glorified body so that the Resurrection awaited for by the Jews could come about. This is why Christ told Lazarus’s sisters, “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25). Mankind had been tarnished and separated by God after the Fall, and when they passed on they went down into what the Psalmist called the Pit (also known as Sheol in Hebrew). When Christ died on the cross, He went down into the Pit and broke down the gates - you see, He went where men go when they die, but at the same time the Gates of Sheol could not comprehend His deity, and they shattered. All those inside who had awaited their Lord ascended to Paradise with Him. The cross, a symbol of torment and death, became a symbol of resurrection.

Likewise, you ask, “Was the killing something He wanted them to do?” Yes, He wanted them to do it, because it would fulfill the very reason for the Incarnation. If you read the gospels you’ll find many times Christ predicts His oncoming crucifixion - two examples:

“You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man will be delivered up to be crucified.” [Matthew 26:2; ESV]

…for he was teaching his disciples, saying to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise.” [Mark 9:31; ESV]

And likewise Christ’s comment when the men come to arrest Him:

“Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs? When I was with you day after day in the temple, you did not lay hands on me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.” [Luke 22:52-53; ESV]

Christ went to the cross and did so willingly, knowing that there would be torment - but most of all, knowing there would be life for all who believe. That is why the crucifixion happened.
so the killers did a good deed? they killed Jesus,he wanted them to do that? so why dont you celebrate the killers in the same way that you celebrate the cross?!?
 
Bosnian Muslim,

Thank you for responding…But by your questions, you did not understand an explanation I shared with you from one of our early Church fathers. May be first thing would be to get the book of Exodus and see God’s decrees in building the temple, the sacrifice and priesthood. These elements are part of the foundation for faith and worship.

Also, recall Abraham and how he was first asked to offer up his only son Isaac as sacrifice but an angel of the Lord then stopped him, his faith tested and proven…However, none of us can make up for the sin we have committed against God. It must be of God to atone for sin. In the fulfillment of the request of Abraham, God offered His son as Sacrifice and His son willingly did so.

There are many treatises and writings on the crucifixion of Christ. But what I gave you was quite basic and covered visual imagery.

So it is like Mohammedans are taught not to go near our teachings…you should really try to read…I am not asking you to renounce Islam…but to understanding the mission and great grace Christ is to the world because of His crucifixion.
 
so the killers did a good deed? they killed Jesus,he wanted them to do that? so why dont you celebrate the killers in the same way that you celebrate the cross?!?
If this was not said before, then allow me … . Jesus died for our sins so that by his death our sins are forgiven when we believe in him and repent of our sins. The Bible tells us that the price of sins is death. The consequence of sins is death in eternal fire of Hell.

In that sense we all have a hand in killing Jesus on the cross. We don’t celebrate for sins committed (killing of Jesus or by his killers) but we celebrate for the redemption of our sins by Jesus’ death on the cross.

God bless you.
 
so the killers did a good deed? they killed Jesus,he wanted them to do that? so why dont you celebrate the killers in the same way that you celebrate the cross?!?
My friend, why are you getting upset over this? Are you really seeking an answer?

Christ wanted the crucifixion to happen so that scripture might be fulfilled. It was a horrifying deed, but it had to be done for all of us, because God loved mankind that much, as John 3:16 famously states. The “killers” (I assume you mean the Roman soldiers) are not what is important - the deed is. That really is irrelevant to the subject. What Christians know is what God Himself gave us: eternal life through the Resurrection. As I stated before, that is why Christ gave Himself on the cross. That is the focal point.

“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” [Luke 24:46-47; NKJV]
 
You are given correct comments by other posts, Bosnian Muslim. The entire Old Testament is the choosing of a certain nation of people who were spiritual ‘babies’ if you want to use that term, who had to be formed by God, and subsequently were severely punished if they disobeyed any laws towards God, their neighbors, themselves and their progeny, as well as their enemies.

People in those times were very primitive and stubborn…like the breakdown in civility you are witnessing today, and many of us expect the Lord will eventually do the same to this modern world.

Back on track, you need to read more of the Old Testament – with a Christian guide or catechist of whom Pope John Paul II would refer to today as a fulfilled Jew. He thought of us as fulfilled Jews because we worship in fulfillment of the old sacrifices.

Again, Jesus did this willingly, and His humanity was overwhelmed but He sought the will of the Father.

His mission began at the River Jordan at His baptism by St. John the Baptist with his own followers who were not the 12 Christ chose. As the water began to pour over His head, a dove representing the Holy Spirit came over Him and the voice from heaven said, ‘This is my Beloved Son, for Whom I am well pleased’. God Himself to the world now called Himself Father.

Can you not imagine how God is directly speaking to us, showing us His mission through His son, to have us return and become not just believers, but His sons and daughters…and in the words of the Gospel of Christ, because of His death, Jesus stands at the door of the heart of every human being to bring them into His kingdom…the new life…that is within?..and the new life of family that extends not only among our own flesh and blood, but through faith, we become family in spirit to all believers?

Through Christ’s death on the cross, the first condition of life to be broken was the power of death. This was fulfilled when He not only resurrected, but ascended into heaven. He remains with us in His glorified state. We are not slaves but friends with Christ and our posture in worship reflects that.

And by defeating death, on Good Friday at the moment of death, the souls of the just appeared walking around Jerusalem…the curtain was torn now at the Tabernacle because what was invisible is now visible on the cross. Many saints have been an extension of Jesus in the Church bringing back the dead to life.

When people receive Jesus, they are no longer burdened by their sins and are made free. This is why many Christians are happy as my Muslim friend noticed.

Thank you for coming back.
 
I congratulate you, sir, on dishonest apologetics! For I know what that quote is, and if you go to that original source, it is Eusebius quoting what a heretic said, not his own opinion. He is discussing Serapion, whom he credits with writing the Gnostic Gospel of Peter. If you are going to begin quote-mining, please at least get the person you’re quoting right.
Serapion (191-211 CE) was commenting on the Gospel of Peter, a separate writing different from Apocalypse of Peter aka. Revelation of Peter, and the Coptic Apocalypse of Peter. The point is why would the Patriarch of Antioch (not a heretic) condemned the gospel and yet admitted to some truth in it?

" Understand that the apocryphal writings are not really written by those to whom they are ascribed, that many faulty elements have been introduced into them, and that it requires infinite discretion to look for gold in the midst of dirt " (Jerome, letter to Laeta c.403 CE)

" We may, however, leave aside the stories contained in those Scriptures which are called ‘Apocrypha’ because their origin is hidden and was not clear to the fathers from whom the authority of the true Scriptures has come down to us by a most certain and known succession. There is, indeed, some truth to be found in these apocryphal Scriptures" (Augustine, De civitate dei c.426 CE)

" Although some truth is found in these apocrypha, but because of much falsehood there is in the no canonical authority " (Isidore Archbishop of Seville, Etymologiarum siue Originum)
When the apostles went out to fulfill the Great Commission, they never once accused the Jews of changing their scripture - in fact, they extensively quoted older scripture to confirm whom Christ was. The Koran, by contrast, does not do this. There is not one single quote from the Torat or Injil in the entire Koran, only name-dropping and vague references to certain stories.
" We have written in the “Zabur” (Psalms), after the “Zikr” (Torah): ‘the righteous shall inherit the earth’ " (Quran 21:105)

On the other hand, the NT scribes deliberately scoured through the Jewish Tanakh to find verses that could relate to Jesus in any way possible.

" I was encouraged above all by the authoritative publications of the Evangelists and Apostles, in which we read much taken from the Old Testament but not found in our (Septuagint) manuscripts. For example, ‘Out of Egypt have I called My son’ (Matt 2:15), ‘For he shall be called a Nazarene’ (Matt 2:23), ‘They shall look on him whom they pierced’ (John 19:37), ‘Rivers of living water shall flow out of his belly’ (John 7:38), and many other passages. The first passage is in Hosea, the second in Isaiah, the third in Zechariah, the fourth in Proverbs " (Jerome, preface to his Vulgate translation of Torah c.395 CE)

Show me where Matt 2:23 is in Isaiah, and John 7:38 in Proverbs, as Jerome claimed.
In any case, the Muslim rejection of the New Testament is the purest form of circular logic.
This is a very odd statement. Where else are we to define our doctrine if not scripture? Perhaps we should ignore the Koran to understand the doctrine of Islam - of course, if we did that, Muslims would change their tune and demand we let the Koran speak for itself.
There is no reason for your conclusion, and citing one author (especially a pagan, whom Mohammad would himself condemn) not only proves nothing but falls into the category of the appealing to authority logical fallacy. The early Church Fathers quoted scripture extensively, so much so that if were to have lost every manuscript of scripture, we would be able to rebuild much of it on their writings alone.
Only independent sources would add anything new to an argument, whereas dependent ones (eg. Muslims quoting hadiths, Christians quoting Church fathers) only serve as circular reasoning. Moreover, this Greek philosopher was a 2nd century witness.

Another famous philosopher’s view on Christians of his time (3rd century),
" How can these people be thought worthy of forbearance? In choosing impieties and atheism, they have preferred their fellow creatures " (Porphyry of Tyre, Philosophy from Oracles).
The majority of textual variants in the manuscripts are by and large grammatical, while others include spelling errors or adding minor words such as “now” or “then” within the sentence - all of which hold no bearing on theological matters.
12 verses from John 7:53-8:11 is “minor”, and another 12 verses of Mark 16:9-20 is “minor”. I guess you would consider this “minor” too; a 5th century manuscript, Codex Washingtonianus, inserted this whole passage in between Mark 16:14-15,

" And they excused themselves, saying, ‘This age of lawlessness and unbelief is under Satan, who does not allow the truth and power of God to prevail over the unclean things of the spirits. Therefore reveal your righteousness now’ –thus they spoke to Christ. And Christ replied to them, ‘The term of years of Satan’s power has been fulfilled, but other terrible things draw near. And for those who have sinned I was handed over to death, that they may return to the truth and sin no more, in order that they may inherit the spiritual and incorruptible glory of righteousness that is in heaven "

No wonder a certain scribe let out his frustration on the left hand margin of Heb 1:3 main text in Codex Vaticanus,
“amaqestate kai kake, afeV ton palaion, mh metapoiei” meaning “Fool and knave, can’t you leave the old reading alone, and not alter it!”
Furthermore, if even one alteration is a sign of scribes changing scripture, then even the Koran is guilty of this.
A desperate last-ditch effort; tu quoque argument? 😉
 
If your beliefs are correct regarding Christ, then why should ours be such a threat if they are incorrect?
It’s amazing the things you can find in a Christian forum. You think Muslims view Christian beliefs as a threat to us? No, Kathleen. Not from Christianity, Judaism, or whatever religion for that matter.

" Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion " (Quran 109:6)
 
No long explanations necessary: If Christ was crucified, all Islam collapses.
 
No long explanations necessary: If Christ was crucified, all Islam collapses.
if christs isnt crucified all christianity collapses

islam is not really that into Jesus,we just believe in him…but its not like denying crucifiction is soo central
 
It’s amazing the things you can find in a Christian forum. You think Muslims view Christian beliefs as a threat to us? No, Kathleen. Not from Christianity, Judaism, or whatever religion for that matter.

" Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion " (Quran 109:6)
👍

its great how they think so,even though we have stronger arguments against them we still dont care that much talking about them…when God want to guide somone He does that,when He doesnt…we cant help him/her
 
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