Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

[ronin67]

My guess on this deceptive religion known as Islam. Satan, after being defeated by Christ Jesus, had to formulate a plan that would divert the message of Salvation, so, he appeared to Mohammad as a Angel of light stating he was the Archangel Gabriel. Mohammand, not being a Christian and not knowing the requirement to test the spirits as stated in 1 John, believed this lie about the Cruxifiction and everything else that was relayed to him by lucifer. This was the first successful attack on the validity of Christ’s sacrifice in the middle east (he had to due something to slow down the spread of Christianity in this region). So a few hundred years later, Christianity starts to grow through the new discovered land of America (United States) in leaps and bounds. Lucifer seeing this, jumps back in, in a false vision to Jospeh Smith saying every other Church were apostate. Again, Joseph Smith (who was a Christian, but failed to test the spirits as per 1 John). This visionary lie supposedly involved Christ himself telling this message to Joseph Smith, yet it never dawned on Joseph Smith to check what Christ Jesus said in the scriptures as compared to what he was being told by this deceptive spirit posing as Jesus. Again, the supposed prophet took the message of deception and convinced millions of this lie. What do Islam and the Morman’s have in common you may ask??? They both deny that Jesus Christ was God the son (God in the Flesh). Also, look at the history of Mohammad before he “Self-Proclaimed” himself to be a prophet of Allah. He was a warlord. A man with blood of innocences on his hands. How many people did Christ Jesus kill or incite his disciples to kill during his ministry? ZERO. Big difference. A mission of peace and eternal salvation for those who accept Christ as compared to the lie of Islam through Mohammad who took the devil’s deception to heart without testing the spirits. Their really is no comparison.

 The war being waged is being fought in the heavenly realms with the earth as its training ground.  People when Christianity is being driven out of schools of higher learning and we as Christians do nothing about it, we are failing our Lord and Savior.  They can teach other religions in a school environment, but we as the body of Christ have a responsibility to show them where Christ Jesus left more burden of proof of his Cruxifiction and resurrection in just the four gospels, then all the other religions that don't have the eyewitness accounts that Christianity has.  I was once a Buddhist, but once you look at the facts that surround this great man/Christ Jesus (God in the Flesh), only a blind person will continue to deny.  That my friends is my great Deception Theory I ran over in my head for quite sometime.  The best lies a person (or in this case satan) can tell are so close to the truth, yet divert slightly at a pivetal point in the truth, causing the overall message to fall away from the utimate truth.   Now the question is what will Christians and the Catholic Church do about it?

Take Care and May God be with us all!

Ed

 

[sedonaman]

My guess on this deceptive religion known as Islam. …

Have you seen this analysis?

 

[ronin67]

Have you seen this analysis?

Interesting, I never saw that.

Thanks!

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed

 

[KathleenGee]

Great posts with no Muslim response.

The Jewish people have 5600 years of factual recorded history; the earliest in Genesis is what they drew from the pagan cultures of their times to reflect on how man came into existence, his relationship with God, himself and others, where he is going…

The Exodus, the laws, the prophets, the psalms, and all the books of the Old Testament were factual in history.

The New Testament was factual with its paper trail and artifacts …

Non Christians take even Christian church Fathers out of context because they are missing all the connecting events and other people…same with St. Paul. They completely ignore St. Peter and all those working to define creed, start church laws…Even works of St. Peter and others were fully discerned by many people as to what was the spirit of the Church before being accepted…it took several hundred years to define the Nicene Creed…

God does not contradict Himself…and you know that in the History of Salvation, Old and New Testaments, not condemnation and superiority.

 

[ronin67]

Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

As i have already proven Islam plagiarized many Christian texts significantly. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=361136

But now I will focus on Islam’s denial of the crucifixion. The denial of the crucifixion comes from the incorporation of many Gnostic teachings into the Koran. The Gnostics practiced docetism a concept base on the idea that Christ was god in the spirit and had no true human form. His human form was just an illusion. So when it comes to the crucifixion they believed that Jesus wasn’t crucified but just appeared to be crucified. Gnostics believed that Symon of Cyrene was crucified instead of him whilst Christ being transfigured looked on mocking them.

**The Koran, Surah 4.156-57: **

“And for their saying, **‘Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God.’ Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness. **And they who differed about him were in doubt concerning him: No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. And God is Mighty, Wise!”

Muslims have suggested on the basis of this verse that Judas was crucified in Jesus’ stead . This is a very Gnostic idea , that Jesus just appeared to be crucified and proves without a doubt that Islam was influenced by Gnosticism

The 2nd century Gnostic text, the 2nd treatise of Great Seth

“Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. I was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.”

The 2nd century Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter (from the Nag Hamadi Library , not to be confused with the other non-Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter)

“when he said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said “What do I see, O Lord, that it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?"****The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But thisone into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me.”
But I, when I had looked, said “Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place.”
But he said to me, "I have told you, “Leave the blind alone!”. And you, see how they do not know what theyare saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree.And he was filled with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them,and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.And he said to me, “Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know themthrough revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel,in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking those who did him violence,while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one suspectible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute.But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light.He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma , which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit.”

Great post sir. What is funny about the muslims is even if their story of Jesus being taken up to Heaven directly were true (we all know that the evidence doesn’t support this false claim), this would still hold Christ on a higher level then Mohammad who died a very human death. Jesus was taken directly into Heaven and Mohammad died a normal human death, yet muslims still hold Mohammad on a higher level than Christ??? I don’t get it. I hope one day, the vast majority (if not all) muslims look at this for what it really is, a false demonic deception. Christianity existed hundreds of years before the Muslim faith came on the scene. The similarities are staggering until it comes to the most important message, The Resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Oh devil you are a deceitful one and very good at what you do. Christ has defeated you evil one.

Take Care and May God always give us clarity!

Ed (Ronin)

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

biblical source:

According to paleographical analysis, the earliest NT manuscripts are the papyri from the 2nd century. While most modern scholars agree that Paul himself did write most of the letters attributed to him, the same authenticity cannot be said about the authors of the canonical Gospels.

First, I second Jakasaki in asking that you cite scholars to verify your claims.

Second, in regards to the authenticity of anyone other than Paul…is that way even second-generation Christians can attest to their authorship? One example:

But those who are from Valentinus, being, on the other hand, altogether reckless, while they put forth their own compositions, boast that they possess more Gospels than there really are. Indeed, they have arrived at such a pitch of audacity, as to entitle their comparatively recent writing “the Gospel of Truth,” though it agrees in nothing with the Gospels of the Apostles, so that they have really no Gospel which is not full of blasphemy. For if what they have published is the Gospel of truth, and yet is totally unlike those which have been handed down to us from the apostles, any who please may learn, as is shown from the Scriptures themselves, that that which has been handed down from the apostles can no longer be reckoned the Gospel of truth. But that these Gospels alone are true and reliable, and admit neither an increase nor diminution of the aforesaid number, I have proved by so many and such [arguments]. [Saint Irenaeus, *Against Heresies, III, 11:9]

Irenaeus goes on to number four true gospels and identify their authors: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (ibid, 11:7). Irenaeus, incidentally, was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple to the original apostle John, the disciple whom Jesus loved and who was present there at the crucifixion. Here we have at least three generations of Christians who know the gospels. This is about the same generation of Muslims whom Mohammad said would be trustworthy - a standard most Muslims refuse to apply to Christianity.

Paul’s writing lack the narrative of Jesus that the Gospels have. No mention of a specific Gospel, only “my Gospel” (Rom 16:25). Thus, Paul’s epistles came up BEFORE any of the Gospels were written. If Paul had witnessed the crucifixion, he certainly would have mention this important event. The various Gospels were penned down afterward, conforming to the doctrines in Paul’s letters.

The part in bold is pure conjecture. There is no evidence to support this - in fact, most Muslims I’ve seen try to show contradictions between the gospels and Pauline epistles.

Incidentally, Paul does not only refer to “my Gospel.” That is only part of Romans 16:25 any way, for right after Paul refers to “the preaching of Jesus Christ.” At the very beginning of Romans he refers to “the gospel of God” (Romans 1:1), as well as “the gospel of his Son” (Romans 1:9). There are other examples, such as Romans 15:19, but I think the point is obvious. Paul does refer to a gospel other than the “my Gospel” you refer to.

The fact is there was a gospel present among the Christian community, as the eyewitnesses and apostles lived amongst the people and were preaching the stories and lessons of Christ. Paul’s letters were not meant to be gospels, but to give them strength and guidance on top of what they already knew. To preserve them, fight heresy, and/or edify the brothers and sisters in Christ, the gospel writers began to record them down into the individual gospels.

Now we can see; there was no first-hand witness that Jesus was crucified → Jesus’ crucifixion is a conjecture.

That’s a very weak tie-in to the topic of the thread. Nothing has really been shown to certify that there were no first-hand witnesses to Christ’s crucifixion. The only conjecture here is, once again, on the side of Muslims.

With all due respect, you are not really engaging any one on their arguments. You just keep quoting things in what some call “the shotgun approach,” as if you hope what you throw out next will stick. If someone points out the flaws in your arguments, you leap to another argument entirely. Instead of running to Google, take a break and do some sincere research into the issues at hand, and then we can speak on equal terms.

 

[KathleenGee]

Javl,

Yes, we are ignored.

I think the Muslims learn the Koran through rote memorization, allowing it to flow deeper into their psychosis as absolute truth, repetitious, circular…

The thinking is concentric as others have said. I read some time ago that Satan moves concentrically, never progressive as God did in Salvation History.

Eschatology…who I am, who made me, why do I exist, for what purpose…where I am I going, and what is to become of my end…The true spirit of religion attempts to answer these questions…

But when religion is used to take over, dominant, and destroy the faith search of other people, yes, this is not really religion, but world political domination…serving no other than the Prince of this world…we call Satan.

I don’t mean to say that Muslims follow this, but those who are politically bent, this callous indifference to the sufferings of those they now dominate, and all the horrific experiences these people endured in the name of Islam. I forgive them, as many of us have in the past…but the world is very small now because of mass communications…

I wonder how close we are to the end…may the Lord make all mankind one with Him in love…Christ may your kingdom come! Maranatha…deliver us from all evil…liberate all those in bondage…may they come to know Your eternal life!

 

[Javl]

Have you seen this analysis?

A great analysis, but Muslims will never accept it. They’ll consider it a work of Satan. I
don’t think they’ll recognize the truth even if it slapped them in the face.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

Javl,

Yes, we are ignored.

I think the Muslims learn the Koran through rote memorization, allowing it to flow deeper into their psychosis as absolute truth, repetitious, circular…

The thinking is concentric as others have said. I read some time ago that Satan moves concentrically, never progressive as God did in Salvation History.

Eschatology…who I am, who made me, why do I exist, for what purpose…where I am I going, and what is to become of my end…The true spirit of religion attempts to answer these questions…

But when religion is used to take over, dominant, and destroy the faith search of other people, yes, this is not really religion, but world political domination…serving no other than the Prince of this world…we call Satan.

I don’t mean to say that Muslims follow this, but those who are politically bent, this callous indifference to the sufferings of those they now dominate, and all the horrific experiences these people endured in the name of Islam. I forgive them, as many of us have in the past…but the world is very small now because of mass communications…

I wonder how close we are to the end…may the Lord make all mankind one with Him in love…Christ may your kingdom come! Maranatha…deliver us from all evil…liberate all those in bondage…may they come to know Your eternal life!

Yes, Kathleen. They are totaly braiwashed from childhood ( in a way we should do the same with our people… ). Jesus predicted this. I think it is Satan’s last stand before the end and he thinks he is winning. But I know and trust in Jesus when he said that hell
( Satan and his angels ) shall not prevail that the devil will be totally defeated and that
all those who were duped by him will finally realize the Truth. As St. John said “Come Lord
Jesus”, come soon. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[KathleenGee]

I am coming to the conclusion that the Muslims for the most part, aren’t even reading our posts.

They see a paragraph or two on the screen, then pull out some more of their own questions and denials…dishonest…

May be it is best to ask them in the first place if they are willing to read our posts, otherwise go troll some place else.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

Well, Mohammed had some contact with Christianity; however, it was mostly with heretical Christians who were practicing Gnostics - Gnostics taught that Jesus did not die on the Cross, but that He made a miracle so that everyone there believed another man to be Christ & visa versa (I believe that they thought it was the man who helped him carry the cross) and that he actually stood and watched the crucifixion of this other man and was laughing.

It was because of this Gnostic influence that Mohammed was exposed to that made him and all other Muslims after believe that Jesus did not die on the cross.

If you read the Quran you will notice that things that Mohammed wrote about Christian beliefs simply aren’t true - for example at one point he indicates in the Quran that Christians believe that Mary is part of the Holy Trinity. The Quran is clearly wrong on that issue and if it’s wrong about that…

 

[planten]

I am coming to the conclusion that the Muslims for the most part, aren’t even reading our posts.

They see a paragraph or two on the screen, then pull out some more of their own questions and denials…dishonest…

May be it is best to ask them in the first place if they are willing to read our posts, otherwise go troll some place else.

KathleenGee, what do you want us to read?? We read every line unless the post is extra ordinarily long, full of useless material. That could be aching or tiring. If you had any useful point, you can always state it briefly. We know all about the real good teachings of Jesus. We know all about your own revised teachings. We have read the bible too with clean / clear heart. You have nothing good to offer us.

Please do not assume that we do not read your posts.

 

[planten]

Well, Mohammed had some contact with Christianity; however, it was mostly with heretical Christians who were practicing Gnostics - Gnostics taught that Jesus did not die on the Cross, but that He made a miracle so that everyone there believed another man to be Christ & visa versa (I believe that they thought it was the man who helped him carry the cross) and that he actually stood and watched the crucifixion of this other man and was laughing.

It was because of this Gnostic influence that Mohammed was exposed to that made him and all other Muslims after believe that Jesus did not die on the cross.

If you read the Quran you will notice that things that Mohammed wrote about Christian beliefs simply aren’t true - for example at one point he indicates in the Quran that Christians believe that Mary is part of the Holy Trinity. The Quran is clearly wrong on that issue and if it’s wrong about that…

Thanks for providing the proof that there were some christians who were believing that Jesus did not die on the cross. That was a long time belief originating from the very early times. Not generated at the time of Muhammad.

There were christians (whom you call gnostics) who believed that Jesus did not die on the cross. They must have believed that there was no need of any original sin too and no need of atonement. No need to kill Jesus for the sins of sinners. It was an important part of the christian teachings. So it had nothing to do with Muhammad.

Quran never said that it was some other fellow on the cross. That was also some other foolish story generated by some christians.

Now about Quran being wrong about Trinity. Quran never said that Mary was part of Trinity. If there is any such thing then please give reference. Quran only accused the christians of worshipping Mary. It did not say that Mary was one part of Trinity.

 

[sedonaman]

Thanks for providing the proof that there were some christians who were believing that Jesus did not die on the cross…

You didn’t read it very closely. She said they were heretics. A Christian saying that Jesus didn’t die on the cross is like a Muslim saying that Mohammed was not a prophet. What would you say about a Muslim who claimed that Mohammed was not a prophet?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

KathleenGee, what do you want us to read?? We read every line unless the post is extra ordinarily long, full of useless material. That could be aching or tiring. If you had any useful point, you can always state it briefly.

Ah, is this the new spin on your old “Your post is too long” strawman? Has it seriously gone from “It’s too long, I can’t respond” to simply “It’s too long, I refuse to respond”? :dts:

Thanks for providing the proof that there were some christians who were believing that Jesus did not die on the cross. That was a long time belief originating from the very early times. Not generated at the time of Muhammad.

If you refer to the Gnostics, and call them “Christians” in the sense that they followed the teachings of Jesus Christ, whom both Christians and Muslims profess to know…then you insult your prophet, you insult Jesus, and you insult your religion.

The Koran teaches that Allah has no partners and no children. In fact, the Gnostics not only believed Allah had partners, but that He also had lesser gods, or demiurges, among His heavenly realm, and even opposing Him. Some of them, such as Marcion, believed that the God of the Old Testament was an evil God that Jesus was sent to save us from - therefore, Muslims who support Marcion inadvertently admit that Allah (who they believe is the God of the Old Testament) is an evil Being.

And yes, some of them denied Jesus died on the cross…but why? The reason is they were philosophical dualists who believed the realm of flesh was evil and realm of spirit good. Many of them therefore denied that Jesus had a physical body, something both Christians and Muslims believe.

It is therefore always humorous to me when Muslims run to the Gnostics and other early heresies as “true Christians,” when in fact these men would be condemned by Mohammad himself.

 

[Javl]

KathleenGee, what do you want us to read?? We read every line unless the post is extra ordinarily long, full of useless material. That could be aching or tiring. If you had any useful point, you can always state it briefly. We know all about the real good teachings of Jesus. We know all about your own revised teachings. We have read the bible too with clean / clear heart. You have nothing good to offer us.

Please do not assume that we do not read your posts.

Then, if you do, why don’t you answer our questions?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[dolphinlove]

Then, if you do, why don’t you answer our questions?

The simple answer to this is, they dont know the answer, and do some fancy footwork trying to change the subject or trying to divert the issue anyway they can.
Its hard for them to defend a false religion.

 

[mangy_dog]

does not apply to Muslims , we believe he is the Christ

Do you mean to say that you believe in the same Christ who suffered, died and was buried and on the third day rose again in fullfillment of the scripture and is seated at the right hand of the Father? That Christ? That will come to judge the living and the dead? that Christ.?

Do you really believe in the Christ that is the word of God, through whom all things were made?

Please clear that up.

 

[Javl]

Do you mean to say that you believe in the same Christ who suffered, died and was buried and on the third day rose again in fullfillment of the scripture and is seated at the right hand of the Father? That Christ? That will come to judge the living and the dead? that Christ.?

Do you really believe in the Christ that is the word of God, through whom all things were made?

Please clear that up.

Sorry to say, that will never happen. That was one of my first questions and it was never answed. Please, don’t hold your breath.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[sedonaman]

Do you mean to say that you believe in the same Christ who …

Be careful. I see you need a copy of the Islam-to-English Dictionary since Muslims use the same vocabulary that has different meanings. Other words we are awaiting clarification include:

“Peace”
“Justice”
“Defensive”, as in “defensive war”
“Messiah”
“Prophet”
“Jihad”
“Compulsion”, as in “no compulsion in religion”
“Friends”
“Allies”
“Abrogation”

etc.