Why Islam ?

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

deen:

Hey bro! What about ZERO! Without the Muslims developing it, there will be no binary number, no digital signals which are big factors in our technological achievement…

While the Arabs did introduce the concept of a numerical symbol for zero to European science (the value of which should not be minimized), this concept did not originate with the Arabs or with Islam. Hindu mathematicians used a symbol for zero almost three centuries before Mohamed was born.

http://sciencezero.4hv.org/science/zero.htm:

…The largest single advance in mathematics was made around 300 AD when the Hindus combined a sign for zero with a decimal positional system. They called their zero “sunja”, meaning empty space. When the notion spread to Baghdad perhaps around 600 AD the named translated to the Arabic word “sifr”…

TarAshly:

The Aztecs invented the concept of zero, no the muslims. might wanna relook into that education.

While the Aztecs may have independently used a mathematical symbol to represent the quantity zero, Aztec culture is generally considered to have arisen in the tweflth or thirteenth century, so the Aztecs can not be credited with the original discovery of this concept.

 

[iamrefreshed]

deen:

Maybe if I share the following, it will make you re-evaluate your statement.

Why are so many Women converting to Islam?

According to “The Plain Truth”, February 1984, in its 50 Year Anniversary Issue, quoting from the “World Almanac and Book of Facts 1935” and “Reader’s Digest Almanac and Yearbook 1983”, between 1934 and 1984.

Christianity increased 47%
World Population increased 136%
Islam increased 235%

100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam.

They’re discovering the FACTS and not basing their decisions on biased media. They realise they deserve to know the complete unadulterated truth.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}.

The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Koran 7:19-25}

1. The Bible says “The Birth of a Daughter is a loss” {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}.

The Koran says both are an Equal Blessing {Koran 42:49}

1. The Bible forbids women from speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}.

The Koran says women can argue with the Prophet {58:1}

1. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as an Adulteress, not men {Matthew 5:31-32}

The Koran does Not have Biblical double standards{Koran 30:21}

1. In The Bible, widows and sisters do not inherit Any property or wealth, only men do {Numbers 27:1-11}

The Koran abolished this male greed {Koran 4:22} and God protects all.

1. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives {I Kings 11:3}

In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife’s permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.

1. “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and **rapes **her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives” {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the rest of your life with the man who raped you.

The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:“It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)”.

Would the Non-Muslim men reading this prefer the Women they know to be Christian or Muslim?

1. The Bible also asks women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}

Deen,
Can you please tell me what Bible you are using for the above quotes? Mine does not use the word RAPE.
Thanks.

 

[Deus_Vult]

jjwilkman:

i really want to speak, but i won’t for fear on being suspended.

I really dont know what gets one suspended from the forum…but we dont suspend deen …so please feel free to share your opinions.

 

[TarAshly]

Joseph Bilodeau:

While the Aztecs may have independently used a mathematical symbol to represent the quantity zero, Aztec culture is generally considered to have arisen in the tweflth or thirteenth century, so the Aztecs can not be credited with the original discovery of this concept.

i dont know where you get that from, but i can tell you that from my knowledge and education, the Aztecs invented the concept of zero, Arabs were very skilled mathmeticians no doubt, but that is a discovery that has been historically linked to their culture. and also there is not solid proof of the era of the Aztecs as they were a culture known to up and disappear and reappear several times in history. I have studied this in depth, and on site of many of the Aztec ruins. it was my major in college, i dont believe i am mistaken on this.

 

[LuigiColetta]

Deus Vult:

I really dont know what gets one suspended from the forum…but we dont suspend deen …so please feel free to share your opinions.

Maybe he is afraid of his government? Not Karl Keeting?

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

TarAshly:

i dont know where you get that from, but i can tell you that from my knowledge and education, the Aztecs invented the concept of zero, Arabs were very skilled mathmeticians no doubt, but that is a discovery that has been historically linked to their culture. and also there is not solid proof of the era of the Aztecs as they were a culture known to up and disappear and reappear several times in history. I have studied this in depth, and on site of many of the Aztec ruins. it was my major in college, i dont believe i am mistaken on this.

I didn’t say the Aztecs didn’t develop a mathematical symbol for zero independently from the Hindus. I am willing to believe you are correct when you say they did. What I did point out was that the Aztec Culture was not known to exist before the twelfth or thirteenth century, so that the Hindus developed their symbol for zero probably a thousand years before the Aztecs.

As to where I got the twelfth or thirteenth century figure for the beginning of the Aztec culture, every history of the Aztecs I have seen agrees with that general time period as when the aztec culture began. Here is one:

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701509044_19/Native_Americans_of_Middle_and_South_America.html#p167:

…Aztec Empire
For two centuries after the decline of the Toltec Empire, no single group achieved domination over a substantial area of central Mexico. A series of competing and warring mini-empires briefly held sway over small areas. Many nomadic groups migrated from the desert in the north into the more developed and temperate central plateau, and then acculturated to a more settled way of life based on agriculture. Most were speakers of Nahuatl, and this became the dominant language in central Mexico. The Mexica were among the last of the nomadic groups (known collectively as Chichimec by the sedentary societies in central Mexico) to migrate to the Valley of Mexico, arriving there in the 13th century. In about 1325 the Mexica began to construct their capital, Tenochtitlán, on one of the islands of Lake Texcoco, which was one of five interconnected lakes in the valley basin. They fought as mercenary warriors for other cultural groups in the valley for some time after their arrival, and they were subordinated to a small empire assembled by the Tepaneca. In 1428 the Mexica joined with the peoples of two other subjected city-states, Texcoco and Tlacopan, in revolt against the Tepaneca. After a successful insurrection, the triple alliance went on to establish the Aztec Empire. Tenochtitlán became the imperial capital…

 

[Deus_Vult]

Joseph Bilodeau:

I didn’t say the Aztecs didn’t develop a mathematical symbol for zero independently from the Hindus. I am willing to believe you are correct when you say they did. What I did point out was that the Aztec Culture was not known to exist before the twelfth or thirteenth century, so that the Hindus developed their symbol for zero probably a thousand years before the Aztecs.

As to where I got the twelfth or thirteenth century figure for the beginning of the Aztec culture, every history of the Aztecs I have seen agrees with that general time period as when the aztec culture began. Here is one:

I dont know why this is pertinent to the thread but this might help…The nr. zero was invented independently in India and
by the Aztecs. In India a decimal system was used, like
ours, but they used an empty space for zero up to 3rd
Century BC. This was confusing for an empty space was
also used to separate numbers, and so they invented
the dot for a zero. The first evidence for the use of
the symbol that we now know as zero stems from the 7th
century AD. The Aztecs invented the number zero for
their calendars in the 3rd century AD.
The number zero reached European civilisation through
the Arabs after 800 AD. The Greek and Roman did not
need the number zero for they did their calculations
on an abacus. The name ‘zero’ comes from the arabic
‘sifr’.
(Data from the book “the calender” by D. E. Duncan).

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

I agree that this tangent is going off topic, so except to question D E Duncan’s chronology which has the Aztecs inventing Zero about a thousand years before the Aztec culture existed according to most other historians addressing this subject, I think we can bring this back on topic by agreeing that the concept of a mathematical symbol for zero was independently invented at least twice by non-islamic cultures, but that an Islamic culture was instrumental in introducing this concept to non-hindu mathematicians.

 

[TarAshly]

Joseph Bilodeau:

I didn’t say the Aztecs didn’t develop a mathematical symbol for zero independently from the Hindus. I am willing to believe you are correct when you say they did. What I did point out was that the Aztec Culture was not known to exist before the twelfth or thirteenth century, so that the Hindus developed their symbol for zero probably a thousand years before the Aztecs.

As to where I got the twelfth or thirteenth century figure for the beginning of the Aztec culture, every history of the Aztecs I have seen agrees with that general time period as when the aztec culture began. Here is one:

Thanks! learn something new everyday. thank you for clarifying that for me. gonna go find my history professor and whallup him and give him a “what for” Thanks for the information on that!

God Bless!
Tara

 

[Contarini]

It’s conceivable that zero was invented by one of the precursor cultures in central Mexico–or more likely by the Mayans.

Edwin

 

[Deus_Vult]

Joseph Bilodeau:

I agree that this tangent is going off topic, so except to question D E Duncan’s chronology which has the Aztecs inventing Zero about a thousand years before the Aztec culture existed according to most other historians addressing this subject, I think we can bring this back on topic by agreeing that the concept of a mathematical symbol for zero was independently invented at least twice by non-islamic cultures, but that an Islamic culture was instrumental in introducing this concept to non-hindu mathematicians.

It was the Mayans and Olmecs that were precursors to the Aztecs…I did a bit more research and it was indeed the Maya.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Is this a joke? Your asking who invented the number 0?
Its always existed. Have I lost my mind or something, am I misreading something? How can you even count or do math if there is no zero. Even in language it exists, "thou shalt have NO other gods before me.

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

Catholic Dude:

Is this a joke?..

No, this is not a joke.
Catholic Dude:

…Your asking who invented the number 0?
Its always existed…

We are not talking about the reality of the lack of a particular existence, but about mathematical symbol used to represent a quantity of nothingness in a positional notation system.
Catholic Dude:

…Have I lost my mind or something, am I misreading something? How can you even count or do math if there is no zero…

This is exactly why the development of a mathematical symbol for Zero was such an important development, and why it is understandable that muslims might wish that an Islamic culture could take credit for this discovery.
Catholic Dude:

…Even in language it exists, "thou shalt have NO other gods before me.

The word NO is not the same as a symbol for a quantity of nothingness in a positional notation system. Zero does not only indicate an absolute absence of gods as in the example you cite, but it can also indicate an absence of a quantity of ten dalmations in the phrase 101 Dalmations, etc.

 

[Deus_Vult]

Joseph Bilodeau:

No, this is not a joke.

We are not talking about the reality of the lack of a particular existence, but about mathematical symbol used to represent a quantity of nothingness in a positional notation system.

This is exactly why the development of a mathematical symbol for Zero was such an important development, and why it is understandable that muslims might wish that an Islamic culture could take credit for this discovery.

The word NO is not the same as a symbol for a quantity of nothingness in a positional notation system. Zero does not only indicate an absolute absence of gods as in the example you cite, but it can also indicate an absence of a quantity of ten dalmations in the phrase 101 Dalmations, etc.

:crying: To bad Islam cant take credit for it…better luck next time.

 

[A.Pelliccio]

Oh yes there were not mathematics before the barbarian horde rushed through christendom. I think we did just fine with I II III IV V VI VII VII IX X ect. You are warring, rapping, barbarian horde hell bent on the destruction of christendom, but you gave us new ways to write numerals, that makes it ok.

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

A.Pelliccio:

Oh yes there were not mathematics before the barbarian horde rushed through christendom. I think we did just fine with I II III IV V VI VII VII IX X ect…

Please give credit where credit is due. If you seriously think we did just fine before Arabic Numerals, I would challenge you to use Roman Numerals exclusively for a time, including on your tax forms, your insurance records, your checkbook, etc. I wonder how long this experiment might last.

 

[The_Eurasian]

The digit “o” is considered the greatest or one of the greatest inventions in mathematics. As far as I know this was an invention of the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. And this allowed people to do easily the arithmetical operations of adding subtracting etc. I don’t know if it is the Arabs or the Hindus who did this but I commend them for this contribution to mathematics. I’ve know and and read about this several decades ago.
Michaelangelo’s sample drawing for the pope which caused the Pope to choose him as the painter for the Sistine Chapel was a PERFECT CIRCLE DRAWN IN FREE HAND WITH JUST ONE STROKE OF THE PEN. NO COMPASS WAS USED, JUST FREE HAND LIKE WHEN YOU WRITE A LETTER “O” or a DIGIT “O”
In the Marian Apparition at AKITA, JAPAN, the Blessed Virgin Mary’s wooden statue SHED EXACTLY 1O1 TEARS. When the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared again, she was asked “WHY 101 tears?”

The Blessed Virgin Mary replied that the “1” at the left of “O” and the “1” at the right of “O” represent the Old Eve and the New Eve. The “O” at the center represents GOD.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Joseph Bilodeau:

Please give credit where credit is due. If you seriously think we did just fine before Arabic Numerals, I would challenge you to use Roman Numerals exclusively for a time, including on your tax forms, your insurance records, your checkbook, etc. I wonder how long this experiment might last.

I find this funny. I have a Qur’an. The Sura’s are numbered with Roman Numerals.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Joseph Bilodeau:

Please give credit where credit is due. If you seriously think we did just fine before Arabic Numerals, I would challenge you to use Roman Numerals exclusively for a time, including on your tax forms, your insurance records, your checkbook, etc. I wonder how long this experiment might last.

So how did they do math back then and not represent a zero? You cant have IX cows minus IX cows and not have some zero sybol as a result.

 

[Munawar]

iamrefreshed:

I find this funny. I have a Qur’an. The Sura’s are numbered with Roman Numerals.

Hello Iamrefreshed,

When Qurans are translated into English, they are written for an audience used to the Bible. Hence, the prose can be Old English, and the numbering is in Roman Numerals.

Munawar