What I said was that none of the Scripture references you offered mentioned either Mary, or papal infallibility. (It seems you’re still dealing with that reading comprehension problem of yours, or perhaps you’re still projecting your own [dishonest] traits and actions onto others.)
How much clearer can I be.
Not entirely true the Pope insisted that Jerome inlcuded the DC books within the OT despite Jeromes view. It seemed settled at least by that time.
Jerome included the books in the vulgate but he also included his prologue each deuterocanonical book which disparaged their canoncity.
Note that if Trent was the first infallible and effectually promulgated pronouncement on the canon addressed to the universal church, Carthage and Hippo couldn’t have been.
Obviously Augustine acknowledged the lack of unanimity in the churches regarding the canon and gave advice on how to determine which books were truly canonical and did not see Carthage or Hippo as being settling the issue.
Post Continued…
So even at Trent we see that the council fathers did not understand the councils of Hippo and Carthage as settling the canon of the OT. It would seem obvious that Trent was not just reaffirming Carthage and Hippo.
Combat Arianism…if I remember correctly.
I think I am supposed to pick a tradition I don’t agree with…I choose the assumption.
The only reason I know of his issues with infallibility (obviously Newman submitted to the councils decress) is that at the Boston Papacy Debate (Butler and Sungenis vs White and Zinns), Newman’s papers were quoted.
I think you may have missed this key point with regard to the article in the new advent site you referred me to
Which is evident by the Use of these books in Hebrews of the NT and also by CLement with regards to Edith and Ignatius. Early enough in Church history to view these books seriously. What you seem to be mistakenly thinking is that canon was only settled at the council of Trent is this phrase
It doesn’t mean that the consept of a settled canon was already established but more explicitly defined because there had been not real challenge to it since Jerome up until that time and primarily due to the reformers. You seem to think it was in some limbo state which isn’t true the artcle refers to Catholic acceptance of the LXX. Which the earliest listed collection of books of the LXX is dated to the fourth century. As far as Jerome he had to refute his own complaint about inclusion into the Vulgar latin translation or the common latin translation in his letter to apion.
A Muslim isn’t a Chistian and I don’t know what a Unitarian believes.
Before I comment, please read my previous two posts on this issue and let me know what you think.
You clearly do not understand infallible declarations, traditions, or much of anything else when it comes to the canon of scripture.
Now, it is important to understand that this canon was the established canon from the 4th century onward and NEVER became a point of argument or contention until Luther went off track at the start of the Reformation. At that point in time it became a necessity for the Church to make a formal “infallible declaration” of something that was already accepted as infallibly established even though not formally declared to be so.
ST. Augustine is obviously supporting the larger collection view for inclusion into canon. He was there at the time of the debate. As for the council of Trent its pretty simple when you consider that like most Catholic doctrine generally accepted beliefs aren’t throughly discussed and defined until challenged when all the arguments are again brought to the front. The LXX was generally accepted by Tradition because of use by the ECF but Trent was a counter to the reformation and commonly held beliefs had to be question and defined in answer to the reformers.
Go back and re-read my earlier two posts.
You don’t have to wait until the middle ages. The vulgate was sent out w/ Jerome’s derogatory comments concerning the canonocity of the deutero’s. If the issue was settled at Carthage or Hippo, why would the church send out the vulgate which contains disenting opinions concerning the canonocity of the deutero’s?
Augustine absolutely believed the deutero’s to be canonical. But, the point is that he didn’t see Carthage or Hippo as being having the authority to settle the OT canon and as you say, he was there.
I think that the Bishop of Rome insistance that Jerome included the works was sufficient to the wider church and Augustine had an answer of support to those not so disposed. It was generally accepted from that point but not diffinatively.
I’ve read your posts, and I believe my statements put things in their proper perspective.
What proper perspective. You made the claim that there NEVER was any contention or argument over the deutero’s from the 4th century onward but the history of the council of Trent disproves that as does newadvent.org.
Why would the church allow Jerome’s prologues to remain in the vulgate since they denied the canonocity of the deutero’s?
Please be advised that Jerome’s cautionary statements were simply an expression of his personal views at the time he wrote them. Jerome, nevertheless, accepted the Church’s authority on the matter and did not place his opinion above the declarations of the Church as did Luther.