Why Isn't Everyone Catholic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bubba_Switzler
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Funny, because Catholics believe the same things no matter where in the world we are.
Surely you jest?

Just look at some of the threads on this forum and you will see that Catholics most certainly do not believe the same things.

In theory you guys should be more unified but in reality it just doesn’t play out.
 
Surely you jest?

Just look at some of the threads on this forum and you will see that Catholics most certainly do not believe the same things.

In theory you guys should be more unified but in reality it just doesn’t play out.
You mis-take core beliefs (doctrine, dogma, if you will) from the less-defined ones. There is plenty of room for differing ideas on many things and much discussion. There is even room for different understandings of many of our core beliefs, since they tend to be defined carefully so as to not limit them; Catholicism is a “both/and” religion recognizing multiple complementary meanings.

Your assertion of disunity holds weight insofar as there are cafeteria catholics. But actual, faithful Catholics do hold to that consistent set of beliefs, even if they have disagreements in other areas. To say otherwise suggests to me that you haven’t investigated the Catholic Community much.
 
Would it be fair to say that you are disagreeing with my claim that Catholicism should have an advantage for being true?
No. I’m just saying that we have a lot of opposition, comparatively more than other denominations. And so our advantage for having the Truth is muted somewhat, to the extent that people have been blinded to the Truth.
Are there real world consequences (generally speaking) for following false religions or holding false beliefs?
Interesting question. I’ll have to think about that. I think the main consequence is just whatever the fruits of that religion are for them. Christians generally agree that following God’s will for them is the only thing that will make them ultimately happy. Catholics seem also to have a much more developed understanding of suffering in the Christian life than most, as well. If the CC is God’s One True Church, and He thus desires everyone to ultimately be a part of that family, then people have their greatest potential for joy in communion with the Church.

In theory that works, but I agree that humans experience the world relatively, so it is hard for them to experience a negative based on missed potential.
Of course, where hard facts are lacking people will form opinions about the truth.
But substitue faith for opinion and you have religion, generally speaking.
God exists (or not), as a matter of fact. But we are (mostly) reduced to faith, i.e. opinion, in the matter.
I think you’re using a very muddy definition of “faith.” Faith is not opinion, not if there is an ultimate Truth and faith in the sense that it is more normally defined is real. If it is not real and there is no absolute truth, then yes, faith is a form of opinion.

I also don’t agree that honest people interested in seeking truth form opinions about truth. Instead, they choose to believe what they are currently convinced is truth. If they are honest seekers, they are open to being convinced in another way (though they may hold to so much evidence that this will be difficult). They do not form opinions because they want to just accept what they understand as objective truth to the best of their ability. Forming an opinion would be to project one’s own desires or feelings upon that which one was convinced was objectively true. Honest people may have their own personal understanding or interpretation of something they hold as independently true, but they will likely not necessarily see a contradiction between how they personally understand or perceive a truth and how another might perceive that same truth.

Faith, on the other hand, involves uniting one’s physical, verifiable experience of the world with less tangible experiences, with the (name removed by moderator)ut from outside intelligence, with the evidence of logic and the less physical senses and intelligences, even where there may be a gap in knowledge. For there is knowledge beyond the physical evidence measurable by science.

I hope those thoughts aren’t too convoluted.
 
I do not seek the “Truth” I just seek information.
I would caution against any “information” - there’s much of it available, but not all of it has truth which is the quality one requires to decide.
It’s also critical to have the ability to discern the soundness of a statement or argument.
 
I recall reading in several places that various evangelical and some other denominations experience an average 3-7 year life cycle, where they attract many members and then start losing them. This is apparently one of the reasons that they try to keep escalating the entertainment value of their services.

I’ll try to find those articles that I refer to, but perhaps some here have seen similar things? If true, it’s a demonstration of the lack of durability of wayward Christian groups, and makes the Catholic Church look good by comparison.
Yes this seems to be right…new “Christian churches” seem to be sprouting here in Asia. It is all to easy…just choose what you like to believe in and leave out what is difficult or morally demanding. Just believe that by “faith alone” one is saved. Who interprets the Bible for you in these “churches”? the charismatic leader or founder of his church. By what authority does he speak? Personal interpretation of the Bible. With so many interpretations, no wonder these “churches” do not last…new ones are just around the corner. What is astounding is that there are so many people willing to fork out their hard earned cash to support these churches.
 
Surely you jest?

Just look at some of the threads on this forum and you will see that Catholics most certainly do not believe the same things.

In theory you guys should be more unified but in reality it just doesn’t play out.
What Catholics believe may be found here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Kindly point me to Protestantism’s Catechism.
 
Yes this seems to be right…new “Christian churches” seem to be sprouting here in Asia. It is all to easy…just choose what you like to believe in and leave out what is difficult or morally demanding. Just believe that by “faith alone” one is saved. Who interprets the Bible for you in these “churches”? the charismatic leader or founder of his church. By what authority does he speak? Personal interpretation of the Bible. With so many interpretations, no wonder these “churches” do not last…new ones are just around the corner. What is astounding is that there are so many people willing to fork out their hard earned cash to support these churches.
It’s all about the cash, isn’t it?
 
Surely you jest?

Just look at some of the threads on this forum and you will see that Catholics most certainly do not believe the same things.

In theory you guys should be more unified but in reality it just doesn’t play out.
SPECIFIC examples please.An unsupported posit has NO value and carries no weight.
 
Mike Tyson, he isn’t the best, but he is one of the top 5.

I did come here a long time ago under the account name ChristianKnight to learn about Catholocism. I trying to see if the RCC has any facts on why it is the true church.
My top five or at least favorite five:Joe Louis,Muhammed Ali,Tommy Hearns,Larry Holmes,George Foreman.Tommy wasn’t in the same weight class but in my mind he was an unparalleled fighter.

How did you come to lose your faith?Was it gradual or all of a sudden?What were some of the things that caused your loss of Faith?Are you saddened by it?
 
This is a new thread to continue a discusison that went off-topic in another thread.

The question I want to pose here is twofold:
  1. Why isn’t everyone Catholic? Catholic dogma, after, is true, isn’t it?
  2. Why are Catholics such pathetic evangelists? You’d think someone in posession of the truth would be at an advantage.
The Holy Catholic Church, in the sense of Universal Church is very well spread throughout the World.

The Roman Catholic Church is doing pretty well too, if we play the numbers game.

Just because you witness to the truth, to the best of your ability, does not mean that everyone will agree with you! There are many points of contention in the many books of the Bible itself, for example.
 
SPECIFIC examples please.An unsupported posit has NO value and carries no weight.
40.png
teflon:
What Catholics believe may be found here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Kindly point me to Protestantism’s Catechism.
Catholics tend to have a double standard that they oftentimes employ. Most of the times, when discussing unity, Catholics tend to compare apples to oranges.

Catholics consistently tend to compare a denomination (the Roman Catholic Church) to either a rule of faith such as sola scriptura or all non-Catholic churches. This stacks the deck in the Catholic’s favor.

For the comparison to be accurate, you would need to either compare a denomination (Roman Catholic Church) to another single denomination not to the sum total of non-Catholic churches.

As for things that Catholics disagree about (and I’ll leave out such things as contraception, divorce and remarriage, voting for pro-abort politicians, etc.), see the below list.
  • whether the creation record in Genesis 1 and 2 is literal or myth
  • did the flood actually happen
  • was Jonah swallowed by a whale
  • which brand of predestination should be subscribed to
  • whether or not the Bible contains errors
  • whether or not Mary is seen as the Mediatrix of all graces, and if so, whether she should be viewed next to Christ facing the church or next to the church facing Christ
  • whether or not Vatican II should be considered an infallible council
  • whether Roman Catholics should believe in evolution or special creation
  • in partim/partim or material sufficiency
  • whether papal infallibility extends only to ex cathedra papal statements and ecumenical councils, or whether synods such as Hippo and Carthage are also infallible
  • which Greek text type (Byzantine or Eclectic) is the correct Greek manuscript
  • what is the status of the SSPX mass
  • what is the status of the SSPX
  • is Jesus’ presence in the eucharist “real” or sacramental
Teflon asked for a Protestant catechism all the while knowing that there is no such thing…not sure why he asked, but he did provide a link to the CCC for which I thank him.

With all the councils, encyclicals, catechisms, codes of canon law, etc. that the supposed infallible magesterium has issued over the ages and are available for Catholics, why are Catholics still confused? Just look at Catholic Answers radio program and “Ask An Apologist”…these wouldn’t be needed if the teachings of the magesterium were so clear.
 
Yes this seems to be right…new “Christian churches” seem to be sprouting here in Asia. It is all to easy…just choose what you like to believe in and leave out what is difficult or morally demanding. Just believe that by “faith alone” one is saved. **Who interprets the Bible for you in these “churches”? **the charismatic leader or founder of his church. By what authority does he speak? Personal interpretation of the Bible. With so many interpretations, no wonder these “churches” do not last…new ones are just around the corner. What is astounding is that there are so many people willing to fork out their hard earned cash to support these churches.
I’ve always wondered how Catholics get around this. It is my understanding that only a handful of bible verses have been officially interpreted by the Catholic church. If that’s true, than aren’t you engaging in private interpretation when you read 99.9% of the bible?

Also, when you are reading the catechisms, encyclicals, council documents, etc., aren’t you relying on private interpretation to understand what the documents mean?
 
My top five or at least favorite five:Joe Louis,Muhammed Ali,Tommy Hearns,Larry Holmes,George Foreman.Tommy wasn’t in the same weight class but in my mind he was an unparalleled fighter.

How did you come to lose your faith?Was it gradual or all of a sudden?What were some of the things that caused your loss of Faith?Are you saddened by it?
My top 3 are, in order: Muhammed Ali, Mike Tyson, Joe Louis.
 
I’ve always wondered how Catholics get around this. It is my understanding that only a handful of bible verses have been officially interpreted by the Catholic church. If that’s true, than aren’t you engaging in private interpretation when you read 99.9% of the bible?

Also, when you are reading the catechisms, encyclicals, council documents, etc., aren’t you relying on private interpretation to understand what the documents mean?
There are many passages that are relatively straight-forward and no “interpetation” is needed. But there are parts that need to read in context, also there are parts that may be interpreted in more than one way and in these situations I defer to what the Church teaches just as the early Christians listened to Paul and the rest of the teachers who had to deal with controversy. We do not have the apostles today but we have their successors who carry on this teaching role – a role that Christ gave to them when he said :Feed my lambs…Feed my sheep.
 
There are many passages that are relatively straight-forward and no “interpetation” is needed. But there are parts that need to read in context, also there are parts that may be interpreted in more than one way and in these situations I defer to what the Church teaches just as the early Christians listened to Paul and the rest of the teachers who had to deal with controversy. We do not have the apostles today but we have their successors who carry on this teaching role – a role that Christ gave to them when he said :Feed my lambs…Feed my sheep.
Charles,

I guess my question boils down to what do you do when there is no interpretation of a particular verse?
 
Charles,

I guess my question boils down to what do you do when there is no interpretation of a particular verse?
If the verse troubles me then I will ask my bible sharing mates what they think, and this sometimes makes things clearer for me. But if the verse still gives me trouble, I will approach my priest or spiritual director for advice.
 
Note that SemperReformada:

a) was unable to offer any unifying document concerning doctrine or dogma for Protestantism;

b) was not willing to admit to the inability to do so;

c) proceeded to confound doctrine, dogma, and belief in such a way to falsely claim that the Catholic Church is not unified on doctrine and dogma.

A very poor showing indeed.
 
Charles,

I guess my question boils down to what do you do when there is no interpretation of a particular verse?
Why, we simply form a separate church for each competing interpretation…whoops, that’s the OTHER guys.

Catholics, not being bound by the shackles of sola scriptura instituted to justify heresy and schism some 1,500 years after Christ, do not presume that every verse of Scripture needs a definitive interpretation, certainly not one binding on the consciences of all Christians.

This is why when one reads the Early Church Fathers, one sees an awful lot of “this may mean…” or “another meaning is that…” They understood that Scripture has layers and typologies and that these rather resist “definitive” interpretation. They understood also, as many Protestants do not, that Scripture does not “interpret itself”. But then the Ethiopian of Scripture well knew this too.

St Augustine addressed this quite thoroughly here:

newadvent.org/fathers/1202.htm
 
Note that SemperReformada:

a) was unable to offer any unifying document concerning doctrine or dogma for Protestantism;

b) was not willing to admit to the inability to do so;

c) proceeded to confound doctrine, dogma, and belief in such a way to falsely claim that the Catholic Church is not unified on doctrine and dogma.

A very poor showing indeed.
You need to go back and re-read my post.

I clearly said there is no such thing as a “Protestant catechism”.

Maybe you missed that post? 🤷
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top