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BrethrenBoy
Guest
If God wants everyone to be saved, why doesn’t he make his existence more obvious? Why allow people to deny him?
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When first read your initial question, I thought of two hymns, "This is My Father’s World, and “Beautiful Savior”. God seems to abundantly obvious to me. Then again, may be that has to do with upbringing - where I was raised, and by whom.
Why people are allowed to deny Him has to do with free well. Think of the rich man who asked Jesus, “What must I do to inherit eternal life”. Jesus loved him, scripture says, but allowed him to walk away.
God does not force His grace on anyone.
Jon
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CalCatholic
Guest
I see it in the magnificence of the ever expanding universe, the cycle of life on earth! Every time I see one of those shows on PBS or Discovery channel about the earth or life on it, I marvel at God’s work!
This Is My Father’s World
youtube.com/watch?v=fIBNWZmb6y8
Beautiful Savior
youtube.com/watch?v=rwhpkKGc-gs
Jon
youtube.com/watch?v=fIBNWZmb6y8
Beautiful Savior
youtube.com/watch?v=rwhpkKGc-gs
Jon
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triumphguy
Guest
The fact that we are allowed to deny Him is evidence of His existence… as loving Father and Creator God.
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JRKH
Guest
I don’t have adequate words to explain this…but God couldn’t BE more obvious.
The problem is that we are so immersed in Him - through His creation - that many cannot see it.
Peace
James
The problem is that we are so immersed in Him - through His creation - that many cannot see it.
Peace
James
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Ad_Orientem
Guest
It’s a good question. I think part of the answer is that he wants humility and faith; by these we give him greater glory, and ourselves enjoy greater glory in heaven. I believe he also wants to weed out fair weather friends. If he made himself obvious, people would follow just because they’d be so dazzled by his glory. This way we have to prove our love, that we’ll chose him for his own sake and on his own terms.
A similar thing happened with the angels; they had infused knowledge of God but not immediate knowledge. They were given a test or choice (some would say, whether to accept the plan for the Word to become Incarnate), and some fell away through pride. Those who stuck with him were rewarded with the Beatific Vision.
A similar thing happened with the angels; they had infused knowledge of God but not immediate knowledge. They were given a test or choice (some would say, whether to accept the plan for the Word to become Incarnate), and some fell away through pride. Those who stuck with him were rewarded with the Beatific Vision.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
God’s existence is indeed inconclusive to the man without Faith.
God values our faith very highly.
The fall of Adam and Eve has created this situation.
Although God desires the salvation of everyone, it is still a choice that needs to be made. If God’s existence was obvious, then Faith would not be required, and free will would be an illusion. God desires our love, in that he has infinite love for us. A true Lover would never force himself on the object of His love.
God values our faith very highly.
The fall of Adam and Eve has created this situation.
Although God desires the salvation of everyone, it is still a choice that needs to be made. If God’s existence was obvious, then Faith would not be required, and free will would be an illusion. God desires our love, in that he has infinite love for us. A true Lover would never force himself on the object of His love.
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wheels10
Guest
In my opinion, anyone that loves Truth knows that God exists. All one needs to do is look at the facts…is there a single thing that a human being can create out of nothing? Yet God does this all the time.
Search for Truth and God will be found.
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Well I think the most obvious answer is that we are fallen. There has been a chasm
separating us from God, so it should be no surprise that we can’t easily detect God.
Also, if I may make a computer analogy: If you made a virtual world on a computer
inhabited by self-aware artificial-intelligences , the people inhabiting this computer-
ized world would have no way of perceiving their creator or your world.
It’s not a perfect analogy, but I like it.
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TRH1292
Guest
“There is enough light for those who only desire to see, and enough obscurity for those who have a contrary disposition”
― Blaise Pascal
― Blaise Pascal
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ClearWater
Guest
Wow! Profound!
Check out this quote by Stuart Chase.
goodreads.com/quotes/167757-for-those-who-believe-no-proof-is-necessary-for-those
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mikekle
Guest
Yes, but if someone chooses to deny him and live their own life, they will pay for it when they die, so really their is no choice, its either God, or eternal suffering. If it was TRUE free will, people could choose or deny God and end up in the same place when they die, or in other words. I know people now that live without God in their lives and are quite content and happy, so why should they be punished upon death for their choice? They should go to a place where it would be similar to how they live now, without God, not sure how psychical torture and suffering got thrown into the mix too!
The OP is right, God COULD make his existence more widely known and it would save alot more people. Some people rely on what they see and hear to believe in it…but so what, this is how they are and God made them this way anyway, so they are just behaving in the manner their brains tell them to.
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Ad_Orientem
Guest
FTFY.
That would mean that free will means nothing, that choosing to reject grace means nothing because you end up living under grace anyway.
Certainly, we can hope and even pray that all people spend eternity in His grace.
You know, Lutheranism claims less that 100 million adherents world-wide. By comparison, the Catholic Church has 1.2 billion. But the fact is that, more than ever in history, His word through His Church is available. to those who never hear, however, we extend our prayers for grace and mercy for them.
Jon
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ServantPD
Guest
Oh that’s deep! I’m gonna start quoting that
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bzkoss236
Guest
Without the choice to deny him, we can’t use our free will. God wants us to freely choose him because when we love him of our own free will, it is real love. A robot programmed to love (like a person who has no choice but to love) is not real love. Real love involves a choice.
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Neofight
Guest
His existence could not be more obvious.
A better question might be, “why doesn’t everyone see it, and accept it?”
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St_Francis
Guest
Suppose you have a couple who earns good money, they’re each lawyers, and they spend all their free time and money partying, never setting aside any money for their old age.
Then when they retire, they have only Social Security to live on, if that!
Whose fault is that?
No, God made people with free choice; He didn’t stack the deck against some of them. They are making their own choices.
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mikekle
Guest
That would be their fault for not planning ahead. Im assuming you are trying to say, all of us should ‘plan ahead’ in the same manner regarding our eternal life after death.
But, is that really why all of us are born and why we are here…just to prepare for the afterlife? That theory kind of suggests someone who really does not want God in their life should do so anyway, just to be sure they end up in heaven, in other words, its not really choosing to worship and follow God, but just doing so in order to have a nice afterlife.
I can honestly say, NONE of us knows FOR SURE what happens at death, or what heaven and hell are like, or if we are interpreting the bible correctly, we think we have, but we do not know absolutely for sure this is true. It is possible we have some things completely wrong.
Death scares me alot, for this very reason, (sometimes it wakes me up in the middle of the night) the fear of not knowing what will happen, or where you will ‘wake up’ and find yourself after death, so I try to be a good person, help people that I feel need it, try to be an honest person with whatever I do, etc. but there are somethings I do which Im sure God would not be pleased with, but the way I look at it, this is MY life, and during my time here on this beautiful world we live in, I am going to try and enjoy it and hope for the best upon my death, but I cannot see myself changing, JUST so I can avoid hell and end up in Heaven, that would not be using my free will correctly, that seems a bit like extortion to me, in other words, 'EITHER DO THIS AND LIVE THIS WAY, OR ELSE END UP BEING TORTURED AND RIPPED APART BY DEMONS IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.
That is just the way I feel, I cannot change how I feel about this either.
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