Why isn't God's existence more obvious?

[BrethrenBoy]

Thank you for all the responses. I see I need to chew on this a little more.

 

[BrethrenBoy]

That would be their fault for not planning ahead. Im assuming you are trying to say, all of us should ‘plan ahead’ in the same manner regarding our eternal life after death.

But, is that really why all of us are born and why we are here…just to prepare for the afterlife? That theory kind of suggests someone who really does not want God in their life should do so anyway, just to be sure they end up in heaven, in other words, its not really choosing to worship and follow God, but just doing so in order to have a nice afterlife.

I can honestly say, NONE of us knows FOR SURE what happens at death, or what heaven and hell are like, or if we are interpreting the bible correctly, we think we have, but we do not know absolutely for sure this is true. It is possible we have some things completely wrong.

Death scares me alot, for this very reason, (sometimes it wakes me up in the middle of the night) the fear of not knowing what will happen, or where you will ‘wake up’ and find yourself after death, so I try to be a good person, help people that I feel need it, try to be an honest person with whatever I do, etc. but there are somethings I do which Im sure God would not be pleased with, but the way I look at it, this is MY life, and during my time here on this beautiful world we live in, I am going to try and enjoy it and hope for the best upon my death, but I cannot see myself changing, JUST so I can avoid hell and end up in Heaven, that would not be using my free will correctly, that seems a bit like extortion to me, in other words, 'EITHER DO THIS AND LIVE THIS WAY, OR ELSE END UP BEING TORTURED AND RIPPED APART BY DEMONS IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.

That is just the way I feel, I cannot change how I feel about this either.

I se to remember a question similar to what your struggling with being asked on Catholic Answers Live. Does anyone know which show it was?

 

[TK421]

If any amount of obscurity that hinders us from having a perfect faith were removed, and if our minds and hearts were likewise made fully capable of the knowledge of God without obstruction, our situation would be like that of the angels, and in that situation, there would all the same be those who fall and those who ascend. With all barriers removed, the mystery of our choice would be revealed in an instant. Choosing God strictly out of pragmatism is not choosing God at all. The friendship would be no more authentic than the friendship of a person pointing a gun at somebody and telling them to proclaim that they are friends.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

If God wants everyone to be saved, why doesn’t he make his existence more obvious? Why allow people to deny him?

I believe it has to do with our relationship -or lack thereof- with Him. There is that term “when you love someone, you see them everywhere” and I believe the same is true with God. A good relationship is built on the selfless love two people have for each other. Yet when there is one person full of themselves, the other will always appear to such a person as never around, not good enough, or a burden. In order for true love to exist between individuals there has to be the ability to accept love, yet, this likewise means there must be allowed the ability to reject love also. Love cannot be forced but it also cannot be denied without consequences.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

I don’t have adequate words to explain this…but God couldn’t BE more obvious.
The problem is that we are so immersed in Him - through His creation - that many cannot see it.

Peace
James

Not to mention that our wounded human nature is continously exploited through doubt, despair, selfishness, etc. Even if the truth is right in front of us like when Peter walked out on water to Jesus in the storm, doubt surrounded him he began to sink -not because the doubts were true but because they have the upperhand in our wounded “logical” thinking.

 

[JRKH]

That would be their fault for not planning ahead. Im assuming you are trying to say, all of us should ‘plan ahead’ in the same manner regarding our eternal life after death.

But, is that really why all of us are born and why we are here…just to prepare for the afterlife?

While this manner of expression (plan ahead) is common, it can have the unfortunate connotation that one isn’t where one wants to be now. You seem to echo that by saying “just to prepare…”
We are not here “just to prepare for the afterlife”. In fact I would say that we are here to learn about and embrace the “afterlife” - the “kingdom” - right now. This means living ones life in accordance with the teachings of Christ. In this the “planning ahead” is simply the continuation of that life of Love and of service.
Do you know what I mean?

That theory kind of suggests someone who really does not want God in their life should do so anyway, just to be sure they end up in heaven, in other words, its not really choosing to worship and follow God, but just doing so in order to have a nice afterlife.

Yes this can suggest such an outlook. However consider that many a great saint begins in such a position. They come to worship out of fear of punishment but then as they advance in their faith and holiness, they recognize t Love of God and gradually that fear is replaced more and more by Love.
Now granted - some never do advance beyond this early stage and some fall away because of this fear - but for he who continues to grow - fear will give way to Love.

I can honestly say, NONE of us knows FOR SURE what happens at death, or what heaven and hell are like, or if we are interpreting the bible correctly, we think we have, but we do not know absolutely for sure this is true. It is possible we have some things completely wrong.

Very true…St Paul says that “eye has not seen or ear heard what God has prepared for those who Love Him”…(or words to that effect). So we walk by faith and - in my mind - try to keep things simple.

Death scares me a lot, for this very reason, (sometimes it wakes me up in the middle of the night) the fear of not knowing what will happen, or where you will ‘wake up’ and find yourself after death, so I try to be a good person, help people that I feel need it, try to be an honest person with whatever I do, etc. but there are somethings I do which Im sure God would not be pleased with, but the way I look at it, this is MY life, and during my time here on this beautiful world we live in, I am going to try and enjoy it and hope for the best upon my death, but I cannot see myself changing, JUST so I can avoid hell and end up in Heaven, that would not be using my free will correctly, that seems a bit like extortion to me, in other words, 'EITHER DO THIS AND LIVE THIS WAY, OR ELSE END UP BEING TORTURED AND RIPPED APART BY DEMONS IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.

To an extent, I see this as a healthy outlook. Not saying it is entirely correct…but this is not an uncommon stage in one’s journey either. I hope that you continue your healthy activities of honesty and service to others and also that you continue to study and grow in your understanding of God, God’s Love and His desire for our happiness.

That is just the way I feel, I cannot change how I feel about this either.

Never say never…
We are always changing…

Peace
James

 

[St_Francis]

That would be their fault for not planning ahead. Im assuming you are trying to say, all of us should ‘plan ahead’ in the same manner regarding our eternal life after death.

But, is that really why all of us are born and why we are here…just to prepare for the afterlife? That theory kind of suggests someone who really does not want God in their life should do so anyway, just to be sure they end up in heaven, in other words, its not really choosing to worship and follow God, but just doing so in order to have a nice afterlife.

To use the 2 lawyers analogy again, to me what you are describing would be like the 2 lawyers living in destitution so they can save every cent they can for their old age!

Just as we should have balance in our material lives, so we should have balance in our spiritual lives. One should not be so caught up in fearfully preparing for the afterlife that one misses what God has provided for us here on earth. A husband should not spend so much time praying that he neglects his family responsibilities.

I can honestly say, NONE of us knows FOR SURE what happens at death, or what heaven and hell are like, or if we are interpreting the bible correctly, we think we have, but we do not know absolutely for sure this is true. It is possible we have some things completely wrong.

True. I believe that our minds here cannot even encompass what it will be like after death!

But there are a few things we know. Christ told us how to attain Heaven: to love God with all our minds, strengths, souls, and hearts; and to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Love God… If a man loves a woman, he wants to get to know her, he wants to spend time with her, he wants to do things for her, right? He wants to share the good things of his life with her, he wants to become a better person for her. So it is with loving God.

We have to get *beyond *the first fearful stage. A man who meets a wonderful woman will never be able to do the things above if he doesn’t get over the awe he feels towards her enough to go up and speak to her. God *wants, *no… He *yearns *for us to turn towards Him *in love. *

Death scares me alot, for this very reason, (sometimes it wakes me up in the middle of the night) the fear of not knowing what will happen, or where you will ‘wake up’ and find yourself after death, so I try to be a good person, help people that I feel need it, try to be an honest person with whatever I do, etc. but there are somethings I do which Im sure God would not be pleased with, but the way I look at it, this is MY life, and during my time here on this beautiful world we live in, I am going to try and enjoy it and hope for the best upon my death,

Where did YOUR life come from? God gave it to you. But why did He give it to you? Do you owe Him anything for having given it to you?

but I cannot see myself changing,

I used to have a hard time with the idea of changing… until I looked at the idea differently. I first thought that if I changed it would be like removing parts of me and ending up looking like Swiss cheese! But when I saw it differently, i saw that the bad things that Inwanted to change were more like warts and things added to the outside of me, and that once these things were removed, my whole self would be able to come out more.

Catholic theology of course, shows this somewhat differently. The Church teaches us that our bad habits are more like a cancer which needs to be removed. Once removed, the cancer will not longer be destroying our goodness.

JUST so I can avoid hell and end up in Heaven,

And this is not what God wants, either! So you are in good company

that would not be using my free will correctly, that seems a bit like extortion to me, in other words, 'EITHER DO THIS AND LIVE THIS WAY, OR ELSE END UP BEING TORTURED AND RIPPED APART BY DEMONS IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.

OTOH, doesn’t a loving parent do the same thing? Does a loving parent forbid the toddler to go into the street alone or they’ll get a swat? The tweenager from going to the unsupervised party or be grounded without a cell phone for a month? The new driver from speeding lest they loose their license?

This is but the first step! The way God has of getting your attention! Of course if someone saw only the stick, they’d feel bummed our. But instead we have the stick *and the carrot! *And the “carrot” is a sublime friendship with God! and eternal happiness with Him in Heaven.

That is just the way I feel, I cannot change how I feel about this either.

There are so many things that I first I viewed negatively but now do not. When I first drove a car on a highway, I thought it was the scariest thing I’d ever done! I thought i was going 80 mph!

I was going 40 and I have since drive that same road many times without a care in the world

What changed my mind? Education and practice.

Our society teaches us 24/7 that any restriction on us is a horrible imposition. Then there is the tiny occasionally-heard voice of Christ telling us that the truth will set us free.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I suspect that fish aren’t really aware of the existence of water, either.

 

[fisherman_carl]

You are really asking 2 questions. One is about recognizing God’s existence (general revelation through nature) and the other about God’s desire to save all (the gospel) . Salvation isn’t really about recognizing the existence of God in nature, but of salvation through faith in Christ and his grace to transform us into his image. Thus what saves us is not believing God exists but the gospel. This is why the bible says the gospel is the power of God for the salvation of all who believe (see Rom 1:16). So the gospel is the power of God and it is greater than general revelation. So when the gospel is preached it has the power to save those who believe.

So in answering your question God isn’t just interested in providing proof to skeptics but he provided something much more powerful to save and that is the gospel. And so the gospel needs to be preached so that they can hear it. So we are part of bringing this gospel and thus God’s salvation to others through the gospel.

 

[Nabooru]

I was often challenged by that question, “If God is real, why doesn’t He just prove it?”

The conclusion I’ve come to is our free will. God, in His love, has given us the free choice to accept or reject Him. Were He to supply an undeniable proof of His existence, that free will would be taken away, as all would be forced to acknowledge Him.

 

[mikekle]

I was often challenged by that question, “If God is real, why doesn’t He just prove it?”

The conclusion I’ve come to is our free will. God, in His love, has given us the free choice to accept or reject Him. Were He to supply an undeniable proof of His existence, that free will would be taken away, as all would be forced to acknowledge Him.

I dont think that is accurate, as if he did come here and show what he can do, just like he did in biblical times, there would be alot of people who still did not believe him, or think it was all smoke and mirrors. People would still have to choose whether they believe in him or not.

 

[SPH1]

Even if God were more obvious, i.e., his existence were an obvious fact to everyone, that does not mean that everyone would follow God. Example: Lucifer and the fallen angels. As scripture says, even the demons know there is one God.

People would then still be on God for not making things better for them, like making them wealthier, removing all diseases, etc.