Why it is Dangerous Not to Believe in Purgatory

[distracted]

Still having problems with purgatory…
question:

Heaven and Hell are important ‘places’. 15x Hell is mentioned in the Gospels (out of 23 total NT) and 143x Heaven is mentioned (out of 255 total in NT). Purgatory is an important doctrine of the Catholic Church, so why didn’t Christ ever **explicitly **warn us about purgatory as he warned about Hell??? It would seem that such a major intermediate ‘place’ before heaven would at least be mentioned once by Jesus. How can I look at this differently ?

He DID… you just have to know the scirptures about Purg… and there are PLENTY of them…

Every day i post the Mass readings (except today because i dont have the Missal with me… …

Every day (almost) is a passage that alludes to … things like having to be purified… cleansed… etc…

 

[distracted]

What post are you referring to?

Post #167

 

[guanophore]

The testing in this life has a number of purposes.

There is quite a lot in Scripture that suffering actually helps us to be conformed to the image of Christ rather than preparing us for heaven.

Do you imagine that these things are somehow separate? Do you think we will attain heaven if we are NOT conformed to the image of Christ?

 

[guanophore]

I know both…

I am prepared to accept your testimony that you have experiences suffering and loss. How can you possibly support that these things don’t affect your soul?

Where in Scripture is it said that fire purifies the soul to be fit for heaven or something like that?

You just posted the passage from I Peter yourself!

I Peter 1:6-10 is a good place to see this:
6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

3- trials also also helps our faith to have endurance-- James 1:2-4

Faith is tested by fire, to reveal it’s contents. Works that are not pleasing to God are burned, those that are pleasing are purified of any dross, and go with us into heaven.

Do you have any examples?

Thousands.

The Church calls them “saints”.

This is quite interesting perspective…

What reason would you give for why Jesus did not take the thief with him when He passed over? He was already “saved”. Why leave him to suffer?

Yes

Ok, so we are in agreement that a person who is producing bad works is reflecting sin?

When we fall short of the glory of God, is it not because we sin?

 

[cascherman]

Yes

okay, do you believe if we have any attachment to guilt of sin that we will be able to be with God and in his presence? Or do you believe that God will only allow us to be in his presence if we have an attachment to sin?

 

[justasking4]

okay, do you believe if we have any attachment to guilt of sin that we will be able to be with God and in his presence? Or do you believe that God will only allow us to be in his presence if we have an attachment to sin?

Here is what the Scriptures says about this. Colossians 2:13-14

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God dealt fully and completely with sin issue when Christ died for us. This passage shows the result of this.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Could you not watch with me one hour?

religious intended ??
Not even for one moment !! You know why

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), november 2, 2008

 

[guanophore]

Here is what the Scriptures says about this. Colossians 2:13-14

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

These are sins committed previously. Are you laboring under some misconception that a person cannot sin once they are circumcisized?

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God dealt fully and completely with sin issue when Christ died for us. This passage shows the result of this.

What does that mean “sin issue”?

Christ died for all. Yet we know that not all have their sins forgiven. So, how is it that his “dealing with the sin issue” was not efficacious for all? How come not everyone now goes to heaven?

The “debt” described in the passage you quoted is a reference to the Mosaic law, which was never applied to Christians.

 

[cascherman]

Here is what the Scriptures says about this. Colossians 2:13-14

darn and here I thought I might get a simple answer from you. So is that a yes you believe you will be allowed to be in God’s presence with guilt upon your soul?

God dealt fully and completely with sin issue when Christ died for us. This passage shows the result of this.

So does this contradict what you said about incurring a certain guilt when we sin? If God dealt FULLY and COMPLETELY with the ‘sin issue’ when Christ died for us then there should be no guilt incurred when you actually sin.

But, again if you agree that we incur guilt upon us when we sin, can we be in the presence of God with this guilt?

 

[distracted]

Here is what the Scriptures says about this. Colossians 2:13-14

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

being “alive” does not mean that we are ready for Heaven. It just means that we are on our way… We have been saved from eternal Hell… not necessarily temporary Hell otherwise known as Purg

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Again, Jesus saves us from Hell (when we repent with all our hearts and turn from sin)… that does not disprove Purg.

Here’s a scripture for you:

“Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect” (St. Matthew…)

 

[guanophore]

Here is what the Scriptures says about this. Colossians 2:13-14

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God dealt fully and completely with sin issue when Christ died for us. This passage shows the result of this.

This passage is referring to past sins. The debt of decrees has to do with the Mosaic Law, which was fulfilled by Christ. This is what happens in baptism, we are joined with Him in His death, and our sins are washed away. This does not prevent people from falling back into their pre-washed way of life.

Paul warns against this in the same letter:

" Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient. 7 These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life. 8 But now you must get rid of all such things — anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive language from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have stripped off the old self with its practices 10 and have clothed yourselves with the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator." Col 3:5-11

If the “sin issue” were resolved, there would be no need to “put to death” these sins. There would be no need to “get rido of all such things”. We need to avoid these sins because those who do them will not inherit the kingdom of God, whether they were never washed, or after they were washed.

 

[jimmy]

One danger of not believing in Purgatory is that you could easily begin to think either of two things: 1) that you are too bad for Heaven & therefore may as well continue on in your sinful lifestyle…

or 2) you could think that God would never send you to Hell since you try to “be good” some or most of the time… and since you “mean well”, even when you do things you know He doesn’t approve of… you could then make excuses for not trying hard enough to overcome some particular sin…

So - do you believe in Purgatory - or if you are not Catholic… do you at least see the logic of Purgatory??

The first option is easily possible if you believe in purgatory. Take for example some of the writings of Catholic saints who believed that practically all were going to hell. I remember reading about some vision of the judgement a Catholic saint had in which he said that there were like 45000 people who died that day and were judge. 1 or 2 went to heaven without going to purgatory and 1 went through purgatory. The other 44,997 went straight to hell for eternal punishment. Talk about destroying a person’s hope.

The problem I have is that it has been defined. Our faith is not a logical conclusion and so we can’t make conclusions like this simply through our logic. We do not know the judgement of God because God has not revealed it to us so we should remain open to the fact that it is a mystery to us.

 

[SheilaDavis]

If jesus didnt tell me about it; I dont believe it.

 

[ncgolf]

If jesus didnt tell me about it; I dont believe it.

The whole of the Bible is the Word of God. What part of the Bible is Jesus not part of … the purpose of the OT was to prepare the people for the Messiah (Jesus) and the NT to preach about the Messiah in flesh (Jesus).

I dont understand your statement.

 

[guanophore]

If jesus didnt tell me about it; I dont believe it.

What do you think He meant, when He was telling the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, and about making peace with your enemy while you are on the way with him?

 

[happilycatholic]

Because that’s about as smart as this scenario:

A friend who is a former ticket clerk at the bus terminal telling you it takes $10 dollars to ride the bus and you take only $5 believing that’s all you’ll need because another well-meaning friend who’s recently ridden the bus tells you so. Then when you get to the terminal you need $10.

You’ve just missed the bus.

 

[distracted]

The first option is easily possible if you believe in purgatory. Take for example some of the writings of Catholic saints who believed that practically all were going to hell. I remember reading about some vision of the judgement a Catholic saint had in which he said that there were like 45000 people who died that day and were judge. 1 or 2 went to heaven without going to purgatory and 1 went through purgatory. The other 44,997 went straight to hell for eternal punishment. Talk about destroying a person’s hope.

.

i heard the same kind of thing and it still bothers me… but i think one explanation may be that there are levels of Purgatory and maybe the saint saw souls going to some deep part of Purg and thought thye were actually in Hell… Purg IS temporary Hell… excrutiatingly painful in the lower levels and not so fun in the upper levels either…

People take sin so lightly but God does NOT… Every sin we commit does terrible damage to us… damage that will not be allowed into Heaven where “no impure thing will enter” (Rev 21:27)

 

[eva6206213]

thank you for the sharing~

 

[justasking4]

What do you think He meant, when He was telling the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, and about making peace with your enemy while you are on the way with him?

Does the church teach these passages are about purgatory?

 

[guanophore]

Does the church teach these passages are about purgatory?

As with all the instruction of Jesus, the Son of God, we teach that all of His instruction relates to the Kingdom of God. He did not make up stories for the sake of telling stories!