Why it isn't possible to repent after death?

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Roscoe_Turner said:
I don’t think you can speak to when you can choose God without talking about consciousness. What is the “I” that chooses to be in accordance with God’s will or reject it.

If death is a process and conscientiousness is an emergent property, when does our consciousness leave us? Does it ever? It that the soul?

If we have free will, where does the will sit? Why would it leave us, if we continue without the body? Is “will” action that can only have consequence if acted on with a body?
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Maybe it would help to first understand soul. Every soul is created by God out of nothing and infused in a human body. It will never cease to exist because it is spiritual and is beyond corruption, such as rust, old age, wearing out, freezing, and so on. The soul continues to exist after the body has corrupted. And the reason the soul leaves the body is that the body is no long fit and ready for the soul, so the soul leaves.

Angels too are spirits and do not have bodies, and because they are spirits, they will never cease to exist because they too are beyond any type of corruption.

The soul has two powers: will, intellect. It can know and it can love even apart from the body, just as angels can know and love even tho they have no body.

So after death human souls do have the powers to know and love, or to think and chose.
And when death of the person happens, this soul leaves the body, and there takes place a judgment which then results in purgatory, heaven or hell. At the end of the world, the soul will be reunited to the body.

This info hopefully will furnish a basis for understanding of the soul.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
 
LibralAteoJesus said:
We have 3 analogies here:

1- Someone following Pascal’s wager, he did not believe but lived his life pretending to, in fear, because of a possible existence of Hell, died and went to Heaven.

2- Another person who does believe but lived all her life in sins, she repented few moments before her death as fear of Hell and to gain Heaven, she was forgiven and went to Heaven.

3- A third person who does not believe, lived his life in sins, died and then figured out that there is a God and that what he did in his life were sins without any repentence, this person goes to Hell. Except when he knew that, he asked for God’s forgiveness after death with a sincere heart.

Why repentence few moments before death is forgiven but not few moments after death? Specially when God is timeless.

Why those who reject God in heaven can go to hell as free will of their choices exp: The devil… But free will in Hell isn’t possible, so is God’s forgiveness?
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Jesus said, “blessed are those who believe without seeing”. Anyone can repent when they have seen God. You have to repent out of faith not fear
 
fred_conty said:
Your point is well taken, but the answer is that they still have freedom to chose but that they are in darkness and only see good as they see it, which is evil, and then chose that.

In the old testament it says something to the effect that a sinner sees evil as good and good as evil. And this is why they chose evil, because they want to, as it represents to them the good thing. So they still are free and God respects their choice.

For example, there was a story on tv recently about some evil drug dealers. There were two people in conversation about what to do about these dealers. And one of them wants to kill them and end the problem. And to justify the killing he says that it would be doing everyone a big favor by getting rid of them and spare more misery to the community. So in his opinion, an evil is seen as good. And the unfortunate thing is that there are a lot more people who would agree with him. Right is wrong and wrong is right.

This isn’t an exceptional case for it happens all the time. Why does a person lie? Because they see it as a good problem solver in their life. Again wrong is right and right has no place. It is a matter of seeing reality…in a distorted way.

In the Easter Vigil we say, “I renounce satan and all his works and all his pomps.” Do we really? Maybe we should add, “if is convenient for me”. Good is bad and bad is good because I want what I want.

The seriousness of sin does not always show up right away in this earth’s timeframe. But it will be exposed how terrible it really is in the next nontimeframe of eternity. For there it will take away the light and leave us in darkness to think we are choosing what we mistakenly think is good for us. For good is evil and evil is good.
Just some more of my thoughts.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
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Thank you, Fred, for your superb - and gracious - post. If we could fully grasp the horrific reality of evil no one would be in no doubt about the reality of Hell. There is no doubt that free will makes it possible, and perhaps even likely, that some individuals reject God forever. All we can do is pray and hope there are very few who are tempted to do so.

God bless you.
 
livingwordunity said:
Maybe it’s because when we die we are no longer within time but outside of it in eternity. So the way we are when we slip into eternity is how we are for eternity. Also, there are some called “strong atheists” who don’t just not believe but who would reject God even finding out that he does exist. Some will even say that if given a choice between Heaven and Hell they would choose Hell most likely because Hell doesn’t say no to vice. People who are in love with their sins can indulge themselves in their favorite sins in Hell or so they probably assume. This is why the prospect of going to Hell probably looks more attractive than Heaven to someone who is a slave to their sins. But I imagine Hell as being analogous to going to an all you can eat restaurant but finding out that all of the food is rotten and stinks.
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So I have read through some posts here, and this one, among others seems to make sense, so to speak. However, I have one question. Please mind that this is nothing more than an honest question, I don’t intend to ask out of arrogance or obtestation.

Say one is of another faith, be it Orthodox, Mormon or whatever. That person loves God and is very faithful in his or her faith., and this person truly does what he or she can to live a good life according to what he or she believes to be right. However, the Catholic church teaches us that you have to be Catholic in order to be able to go to Heaven.

Is this Orthodox or Mormon person truly evil, or just terribly misstaken, due to a different religious upbringing in his or her home for example? How does this justify eternal punishment? I understand the argument for eternal punishment when speaking of aggresive atheists or murderes for example, since they simply don’t wish to go to heaven. But for a person that loves God and genuinely tries to live out life in a good way according to what they have been taught, will they not want to repent after death when they find out that they still have been wrong all the time?
 
Tonyrey,
thanks for the nice thought. And what you said is so true, that is, to pray and hope.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
 
**Sparky

There are thousands of religions out there, and they all have wildly varying beliefs. But I don’t think I’ve ever come across a religion that didn’t have negative consequences for the adherents that didn’t follow the particular tenets. Why is that? Why are there no “everything is the way it is and you don’t have to worry about it” religions? **

There’s a very good reason that there is no such religion. Religion not only concerns itself with the way we should be, but also with the way we are. In the real world, actions have consequences. If you fear not to pay your taxes, you will not be punished. If you fear to commit adultery, it’s because you love your wife. If you fear to become an atheist, etc.

Fear is a part of life, and is intimately tied up with love. You cannot love someone without fearing to offend that someone you love. But we have fair warning from the one who loves us more than anyone else, for none of us would exist without him.

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my
heavenly Father.” Matthew 10:32-33

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned.” Mark 16:16
 
**Roscoe

Taoism.**

Would you care to elaborate? I guess not?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Roscoe

Taoism.**

Would you care to elaborate? I guess not?
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It is an example of what he describes.

It is a religion that states, everything is the way it is. You can go along for the ride or you can fight against it. Worrying about it doesn’t do anything. You are better off if you don’t worry about it. Wu Wei.
 
**Roscoe

It is a religion that states, everything is the way it is. You can go along for the ride or you can fight against it. Worrying about it doesn’t do anything. You are better off if you don’t worry about it. Wu Wei. **

O.K. I got it. Fatalism. A religion of resignation. That is why the Chinese were so primitive for so long. At least Mao got one thing right. Fatalism is against struggle. A life without struggle against evil is a useless life.

No? 😉
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Roscoe

It is a religion that states, everything is the way it is. You can go along for the ride or you can fight against it. Worrying about it doesn’t do anything. You are better off if you don’t worry about it. Wu Wei. **

O.K. I got it. Fatalism. A religion of resignation. That is why the Chinese were so primitive for so long. At least Mao got one thing right. Fatalism is against struggle. A life without struggle against evil is a useless life.

No? 😉
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No, not fatalism at all. It’s the eastern equivalent of being filled with the Holy Spirit. It is living by faith. In the Taoist view we have all that we need. There is nothing to fear.

It isn’t only only religion of China so I don’t think you can blame it for the social economic state of the Empirical Agricultural state. BTW They’ve kind of come on like gang busters recently so does Taoism now get the credit?
 
**Roscoe

It isn’t only only religion of China so I don’t think you can blame it for the social economic state of the Empirical Agricultural state. BTW They’ve kind of come on like gang busters recently so does Taoism now get the credit? **

Go live in China before you say how much fatalism has contributed to their economy. 😉
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Roscoe

It isn’t only only religion of China so I don’t think you can blame it for the social economic state of the Empirical Agricultural state. BTW They’ve kind of come on like gang busters recently so does Taoism now get the credit? **

Go live in China before you say how much fatalism has contributed to their economy. 😉
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China being the 3rd largest economy in the world, I’m not sure what your point is.
 
**Roscoe

China being the 3rd largest economy in the world, I’m not sure what your point is. **

I’m not sure what your point is. What does Taoism (fatalism) have to do with China’s economy? :confused:

And what does Taoism have to do with it being possible to repent after death, the subject of this thread?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Roscoe

China being the 3rd largest economy in the world, I’m not sure what your point is. **

I’m not sure what your point is. What does Taoism (fatalism) have to do with China’s economy? :confused:

And what does Taoism have to do with it being possible to repent after death, the subject of this thread?
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I answered Sparky’s question
"Why are there no “everything is the way it is and you don’t have to worry about it” religions? "
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with Taoism. You are the one that asked for clarification. I would have left it at that. Taoism is such a religion.

Taoism isn’t fatalism. It’s faith.
 
Roscoe_Turner said:
It is an example of what he describes.

It is a religion that states, everything is the way it is. You can go along for the ride or you can fight against it. Worrying about it doesn’t do anything. You are better off if you don’t worry about it. Wu Wei.
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If “everything is the way it is and you can go along for the ride” it seems you just let yourself be swept along by the tide and make no effort to decide what to believe, where to go, how to behave or who to love. In other words a philosophy of idleness… 🙂
 
**Tony

In other words a philosophy of idleness.**

And a philosophy of resignation.

Yes, Taoism made it possible for the Chinese to be resigned to their Emperor for many centuries.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Tony

In other words a philosophy of idleness.**

And a philosophy of resignation.

Yes, Taoism made it possible for the Chinese to be resigned to their Emperor for many centuries.
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There are many parallels with Taoist and Christian thought. Discussion of Taoism really isn’t relevant to life after death though. Interesting but thread drift.

“Simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
 
**Roscoe

“Simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching **

No reference to the grace of God, our help in times of grief and temptation.

Psalm 23

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Roscoe

“Simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching **

No reference to the grace of God, our help in times of grief and temptation.

Psalm 23

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
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They’re not the same. It predates Jesus’ incarnation and King David. 😉

“Be careful what you water your dreams with. Water them with worry and fear and you will produce weeds that choke the life from your dream. Water them with optimism and solutions and you will cultivate success. Always be on the lookout for ways to turn a problem into an opportunity for success. Always be on the lookout for ways to nurture your dream.”
― Lao Tzu
 
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