Considering that Christians tell me they think eternal hell is either real fire, eternal shame, or just burning up and not existing, can you explain what those references from torah.org and others mean when they say that for some who deny religion or who are extremely wicked like maybe Pharaoh, hell may be eternal?Even if you were correct about Jewish beliefs in Hell and I was wrong, your insistence on framing the argument as one of ignorant jews saying whatever they can think of to differentiate themselves from christianity is childish.
Hum! From what I remember from the book of Genesis (bereshit) Adam was created and then God breathed into him. So we are not quite a part of God per se, but a part of God is within each one of us. That’s quite close, but also slightly different. We all come from God, and we’ll go back to God. This yes we say, and I think the Jews say the same thing… or am I mistaken?I am a Jew, that is what we believe. The views are also part of the main idea behind Kaballah - We are all part of god, and seeking a way to rejoin.
Who determined what the Messiah was to perform and how (or from what)? Moreover, did anyone of them specifically said that all of the things fulfilled would happen in the Messiah’s “here and then”? No inkling at all that the fulfilment of his works might be triggered by him somehow in his days but that it would be for the people to see later?The issue is not with the trinity as was mentioned in another post. It is on certain covenants that the messiah was to perform that most Jews did not believe were completed.
Is it the view shared by ALL the Jews involved in Kaballah. (I think that not all the Jews study it, do they?) For those who say that we all come from God don’t automatically mean that we all are “parts of God”. Even in Judaism, I don’t think it’s so generally accepted, unless… Is it specifically said in these terms in the Talmud?Likewise, the idea of one god is not in contradiction with a trinity or any multiple thereof. All are simply parts of the greater, the “one”. We view all the angels, “demons”, etc. to also be parts of the whole rather then individuals. I.e., Michael is simply an extension or specific energy of god rather than a separate individual. Likewise, we are all made in the image of god and part of god as well. Hence the sum of mankind is also part of just one god. So if you add in all creatures of this existence and otherworldly, the number is actually much greater than three - yet all come from the same “one”.
The concept of “Christian Hell” that you mention is entirely foreign to Orthodox theology. I’ve heard this view from many Protestants, but this is the first time I’ve heard Catholics support it.Forget the flames and pitchforks for a moment…
The most basic part of “Christian Hell” is that it is a place without God, and a place without love. A place where one’s innate desire for communion with God cannot be fulfilled, and therefore is a place of torment.
I’m not a theologian, but here’s my thoughts:The concept of “Christian Hell” that you mention is entirely foreign to Orthodox theology. I’ve heard this view from many Protestants, but this is the first time I’ve heard Catholics support it.
Since God is everywhere and fills all things, there is no place that He is not. It is impossible to be separated from God. Your very existence, both now and for eternity, depend entirely upon Him. God is Love, so there is no place or reality that is absent from that Love. How an individual experiences that Love, however, is what determines Heaven and Hell. For those who have sought communion with God during their lifetime, followed His commandments, and who partake in the Sacraments, Heaven is a place of an eternal movement of Love between God and the person, and an eternity of worshiping God’s glory. Hell is a place where that Love is experienced as a burning (“lake of fire”), since the person was not refined during their lifetime and rejected God. The agony for them is not that they want God and can’t have Him, it’s that they don’t want God and continue to reject Him, but are ever-present before His Holiness and Love. Heaven and Hell can both start during this lifetime. Those that reject God and fall into existential despair truly are in Hell, while those that seek communion with Him in the Church are in Heaven. In this sense, Orthodoxy does not believe in an “afterlife”, since one’s soul is immortal; spiritual realities begin during their physical lifetime and extend into eternity.
Purgatory is now, during this physical lifetime, a time of choice and the ability to be purified through repentance and the Sacraments. There is no such state after physical death. It’s a mystery about exactly what happens when someone’s body dies, but we know that they have a foretaste of Heaven or Hell, depending on their acceptance or rejection of God’s Love.
Sorry Christian Hell is a separation from God.The concept of “Christian Hell” that you mention is entirely foreign to Orthodox theology. I’ve heard this view from many Protestants, but this is the first time I’ve heard Catholics support it.
Since God is everywhere and fills all things, there is no place that He is not. It is impossible to be separated from God. Your very existence, both now and for eternity, depend entirely upon Him. God is Love, so there is no place or reality that is absent from that Love. How an individual experiences that Love, however, is what determines Heaven and Hell. For those who have sought communion with God during their lifetime, followed His commandments, and who partake in the Sacraments, Heaven is a place of an eternal movement of Love between God and the person, and an eternity of worshiping God’s glory. Hell is a place where that Love is experienced as a burning (“lake of fire”), since the person was not refined during their lifetime and rejected God. The agony for them is not that they want God and can’t have Him, it’s that they don’t want God and continue to reject Him, but are ever-present before His Holiness and Love. Heaven and Hell can both start during this lifetime. Those that reject God and fall into existential despair truly are in Hell, while those that seek communion with Him in the Church are in Heaven. In this sense, Orthodoxy does not believe in an “afterlife”, since one’s soul is immortal; spiritual realities begin during their physical lifetime and extend into eternity.
Purgatory is now, during this physical lifetime, a time of choice and the ability to be purified through repentance and the Sacraments. There is no such state after physical death. It’s a mystery about exactly what happens when someone’s body dies, but we know that they have a foretaste of Heaven or Hell, depending on their acceptance or rejection of God’s Love.
A really good book i am reading at the moment is written by a catholic jew, its called “salvation is from the jews”aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp
CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY
The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.
A. GOD AS THREE?
The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).
Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE” (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God’s One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.
In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry – one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.
Interesting.A really good book i am reading at the moment is written by a catholic jew, its called “salvation is from the jews”
hebrewcatholic.org/store.html