why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[Lapell]

There are two phases of hell. …]So there is a temporary hell, and an eternal hell. If you don’t repent like Jonah did, you never get out.

This reminds me that I Heard that in English at one point it both meant Hades (where the dead are) and Gehenna (the second death or damnation). Nowadays, some keep both ideas while it only means Gehenna to most people. Like in Latin Hades was translated by “inferros” and Gehenna by “infernos”, which could be also confusing to some even though those two terms were very distinct. So in a way FaithOf Abraham is right, although according to the former ways of using “hell”.

 

[Lapell]

When we mention the concept of Hell to Jews, asking them if they have it too, we usually speak of eternal damnation. I think that originally somebody asked Valke2 precisely about whether or not Judaism has such a concept. So Valke2’s answer had to be about that one concept, not the place where the dead are, awaiting the Last Judgment.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

When we mention the concept of Hell to Jews, asking them if they have it too, we usually speak of eternal damnation. I think that originally somebody asked Valke2 precisely about whether or not Judaism has such a concept. So Valke2’s answer had to be about that one concept, not the place where the dead are, awaiting the Last Judgment.

Teachings in Judaism also have eternal hell, for people like Pharaoh and Amalek who knew God existed but tried to conquer Him anyway.

Hell is a place of fire where sinners are punished after they die. Certain classes of people who deny religion receive eternal punishment there (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Teshuvah 3:5-6), but most sinners are punished there for only (up to) a year (Mishnah Eduyos 2:9; Talmud Shabbos 33a).

So why do so many Jews proudly proclaim that there is no such thing in Judaism as eternal hell, as compared to the Lake of Fire the mean old Christians believe in?

There can only be two reasons:

They are just not well-educated about these teachings.

They intentionally keep it under wraps so they can appear to be the good guys compared to Christians.

 

[martyg]

Actually no, we don’t have an “eternal hell”. What we do have is the concept of Gehenna, which is a sort of purgatory that everyone goes to to work out their sins and allow themselves to heal and evolve. The idea of a “hell” where one spends “eternal damnation” with demons, devils, etc. is a Christian concept.

And I can assure you, “we” are not trying to be “the good guys”, and I find such posturing on your part to be childish.

I suggest you take a look at this page from the same site.

torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/fundamental5-2.html

More specifically:

“In any event, the Gehenom experience enables wrongdoers to be “expiated from their sins” and to then be “purified” enough to “be worthy of rewarded” In Gan Eden afterwards. For, we’re taught that Gehenom is far from eternal. It usually only has to be endured for up to a year and no longer, after which the soul ascends to Gan Eden to join the others there. Some very few, very despicable individuals never make it to Gan Eden, though, and they’re said to be completely “undone”. But again, this is rare and only happens to a “miniscule minority” of individuals, as Ramchal puts it.”

No fire and brimstone, but a different concept of otherworldly fire, i.e. the “fire of purification”.

Look at it this way - in Judaism and Kaballah, good and evil are seen as all part of the same god. They are all his creation. For example, Satan is actually a hebrew word “for choice” (and had nothing to do with a king of hell, that was appropriated later). The idea of Satan was neither good nor bad, it was simply the opposite and created by good to give us something to choose against. If he had not, we’d have no choice and therefore no free will in the kabbalistic view, something very important to us as humans.

 

[holdencaulfield]

aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. GOD AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE” (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God’s One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry – one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

You don’t understand the Blessed Trinity if you think that this is somehow in conflict with Jewish Theology. Look at my signature, I have that quote from Deuteronomy there. That’s because as Catholics we do believe that we have one undivided God who is one.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Jews do not believe in Jesus not because of the Trinity. After all Jews do believe in the Holy Spirit, this does not mean the Shema is in danger of polytheism or anything.

Jews do not care who the Messiah is. Jews care about what the Messiah will do. If the Messiah did not do what *they *expect him to do, he is no Messiah.

This is true.

 

[martyg]

You don’t understand the Blessed Trinity if you think that this is somehow in conflict with Jewish Theology. Look at my signature, I have that quote from Deuteronomy there. That’s because as Catholics we do believe that we have one undivided God who is one.

Yes, and the number “3” is very important throughout Judaism:
askmoses.com/article/228,503/Why-are-many-things-in-Judaism-done-three-times.html

Likewise, the idea of one god is not in contradiction with a trinity or any multiple thereof. All are simply parts of the greater, the “one”. We view all the angels, “demons”, etc. to also be parts of the whole rather then individuals. I.e., Michael is simply an extension or specific energy of god rather than a separate individual. Likewise, we are all made in the image of god and part of god as well. Hence the sum of mankind is also part of just one god. So if you add in all creatures of this existence and otherworldly, the number is actually much greater than three - yet all come from the same “one”.

The issue is not with the trinity as was mentioned in another post. It is on certain covenants that the messiah was to perform that most Jews did not believe were completed. I would recommend the following book dedicated to this subject, its a very interesting read:

amazon.com/Why-Jews-Rejected-Jesus-Turning/dp/B000XUBBXC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204252215&sr=8-3

Marty

 

[holdencaulfield]

Ordinarily, I would not get in to this debate of this nature so I won’t be misunderstood to be biased against the Jewish faith but from literary point of view I read in a book by Asher Norman that there are 26 main reasons why Jews don’t believe in Jesus and I would like to share with you only 10 of these reasons, i suggest anyone who is interested to go and search for the book.

Please note that my purpose is not to disparage Jews faith as I said above but rather to clarify the Jewish position from what I have learned from their books, some of the reasons are:

1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses “referring” to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
5. Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
6. Jews and Gentiles
7. Bringing the Messiah
8. Jesus was not “PERFECT” and committed a sin
9. Jews don’t believe in the original sin
10. Jesus was a false Prophet.

Here is a link to the book, 26reasons.com/index2.html

Please note that I don’t vouch for the authenticity of the author but from various different resource these 10 points are most common reasons why Jews reject the Messiah and his teachings.

Try reading the Bible.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Likewise, the idea of one god is not in contradiction with a trinity or any multiple thereof. All are simply parts of the greater, the “one”. We view all the angels, “demons”, etc. to also be parts of the whole rather then individuals. I.e., Michael is simply an extension or specific energy of god rather than a separate individual.

No they are not. Living beings are not part of God, nor will they ever be. This is Pantheism. Don’t confuse yourself. Demons and angels are created beings. They are not part of God at all.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Messianic Prophesies Fulfilled

 

[martyg]

No they are not. Living beings are not part of God, nor will they ever be. This is Pantheism. Don’t confuse yourself. Demons and angels are created beings. They are not part of God at all.

We’ll have to agree to disagree, and I can assure you there is no confusion. I am a Jew, that is what we believe. The views are also part of the main idea behind Kaballah - We are all part of god, and seeking a way to rejoin. Likewise, demons and angels are not seen as “created beings”, they are seen as extensions from the same source. And yes, Pantheism is a concept in Judaism as well.

I can assure you, I’m not here for the sake of arguing. I don’t wish to debate Christian views vs. Jewish views (such as the list you just posted, which really doesn’t address the Jewish view, just the Christian take on the Jewish view). My only motive for being on this forum is to provide an actual clarification on items regarding Judaism itself, as I’ve seen a lot of incorrect information (misinformed in many cases) while browsing though this forum.

Marty

 

[ricmat]

The views are also part of the main idea behind Kaballah - We are all part of god, and seeking a way to rejoin.

FYI - the concept of “communion” with God (which I suppose is joining) is also a fundamental part of Christianity. There are so many images in both the Old Testament and the New Testament of Israel as the spouse of God, and later on, Christ as the Bridegroom of the Church (the new Israel).

And the Catechism, Chapter 1, Section 1 starts out by saying that “The desire for God is written on the human heart…”

We have a lot in common, really.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Or of Gentile communities for members that followed Jesus and the God of Israel, against their pagan family practices, just as Torah broke up Israelite families when some members still loved the sins of Egypt and couldn’t give them up.

Nothing wrong with that.

Thank You FoA. BTW out of any of the non-Catholics on this forum, you are my favorite. You are more reasonable then the rest.

 

[holdencaulfield]

absolutely, two men in a field, one is taken, the other is left. For not all in a family shall necessarily accept the truth. Hence, there shall be war. So also, take up your cross and follow Him. Love God first, then your family. But God comes first. Even if it means you are kicked out.

I met a girl on the internet who was disowned by her Baptist parents for becoming Catholic. Count the cost. God comes first. Therefore, if one is convicted of Christ, and they be Jewish, they must be prepared to be disowned by their whole family.

Kateri had no friends or family that accepted her faith. Hers was a great cross. She was alone in her Indian village, the subject of social persecution.

Thank You. That’s the true meaning of that passage.

 

[holdencaulfield]

I can assure you, I’m not here for the sake of arguing. I don’t wish to debate Christian views vs. Jewish views (such as the list you just posted, which really doesn’t address the Jewish view, just the Christian take on the Jewish view). My only motive for being on this forum is to provide an actual clarification on items regarding Judaism itself, as I’ve seen a lot of incorrect information (misinformed in many cases) while browsing though this forum.

I wasn’t aware that Pantheism was a Jewish view. Please explain with Scriptural references. Old Testament only.

 

[holdencaulfield]

FYI - the concept of “communion” with God (which I suppose is joining) is also a fundamental part of Christianity. There are so many images in both the Old Testament and the New Testament of Israel as the spouse of God, and later on, Christ as the Bridegroom of the Church (the new Israel).

And the Catechism, Chapter 1, Section 1 starts out by saying that “The desire for God is written on the human heart…”

We have a lot in common, really.

But not that we are part of God, but that we are sons and daughters of God. Again symbolically, not literally.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Actually no, we don’t have an “eternal hell”. What we do have is the concept of Gehenna, which is a sort of purgatory that everyone goes to to work out their sins and allow themselves to heal and evolve. The idea of a “hell” where one spends “eternal damnation” with demons, devils, etc. is a Christian concept.

And I can assure you, “we” are not trying to be “the good guys”, and I find such posturing on your part to be childish.

I suggest you take a look at this page from the same site.

torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/fundamental5-2.html

“In any event, the Gehenom experience enables wrongdoers to be “expiated from their sins” and to then be “purified” enough to “be worthy of rewarded” In Gan Eden afterwards. For, we’re taught that Gehenom is far from eternal. It usually only has to be endured for up to a year and no longer, after which the soul ascends to Gan Eden to join the others there. Some very few, very despicable individuals never make it to Gan Eden, though, and they’re said to be completely “undone”. But again, this is rare and only happens to a “miniscule minority” of individuals, as Ramchal puts it.”

No fire and brimstone, but a different concept of otherworldly fire, i.e. the “fire of purification”.

Look man you are doing it too, whitewash. It says right there like I already posted that for some, hell is eternal. And Christians don’t all believe in literal fire like they used to, but the fire of shame to make you repent.

 

[holdencaulfield]

By the way my response to you was not sarcastic.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Thank You FoA. BTW out of any of the non-Catholics on this forum, you are my favorite. You are more reasonable then the rest.

Thanks, I try. Sometimes.

 

[Valke2]

Look man you are doing it too, whitewash. It says right there like I already posted that for some, hell is eternal. And Christians don’t all believe in literal fire like they used to, but the fire of shame to make you repent.

It is almost as if you are suffering from intentional blindness. We keep defining for you the differences in the Jewish concept of the “hell” (and there is really no dogma set in stone on this subject for Judaism) and you keep ignoring them and responding by snide comments such as “jews proudly” or “I’ve never seen a jew talk about the Joy of worship.”

Even if you were correct about Jewish beliefs in Hell and I was wrong, your insistence on framing the argument as one of ignorant jews saying whatever they can think of to differentiate themselves from christianity is childish.